Fasting - even Buddha did it

Originally posted by daynight42
If you're like me, you might think fasting is only good for trying to lose weight, or to adhere to religious customs.

Nope, not at all, I do it to purge my body, that's all.

The difference between starvation and fasting....

Fasting allows for insulin levels to plummet, which in turn allows for fatty acids to move freely in and out of fat cells as other cells need them for fuel. Unless your hypothalamus is jacked...then fat will used for fuel. Only about 150g of glucose per day is needed (by the brain) but research has shown that the brain adapts to frequent periods of ketosis by burning ketones when fasting (ketones are the byproduct of fat oxidation). This could be irrelevant, however, because the body can store up to around 100g of glycogen, which converts to glucose as the body needs it (glyconeogenesis), in the liver and about 400-500g in the muscles. There are plenty endogenous sources for calories. Where they are coming from will determine if a person is starving or fasting. (keep in mind, too, that when you fast any longer than 48 hours..your body's metabolism will slow down due to the inactivity of the digestion system, which is the second most energy-demanding "system" behind the brain.

Starving...well....when liver glycogen is depleted, the body's last reserve of glucose is in the muscles. The only problem is, muscle glycogen can only be metabolized by muscle; it can't be released into the bloodstream. So...when other cells such as the brain need glucose for fuel, the body turns to lean tissue for protein to convert to glucose (gluconeogenesis). The first source is the skeletal muscle, since skeletal muscle is the last on the list of essential organs needed to sustain life. Eventually, other organs with available protein will be atrophied and last will be the heart (the heart IS a muscle with protein). Then heart failure. And death.

Fasting stops and starving starts when muscle wasting begins.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Yeah, we're all very aware of that...

and what?

reply to post by chocise


There's no need to be a smartass. People were questioning the efficacy and, more specifically, the possible dangers of fasting by comparing it to starving. The point, of course, was to clear up a lil confusion.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Good stuff, very informative. Question: how long on average (obviously everyone is different) does muscle wasting occur after the initial fast? A week? And also how long, again approximately, can a person last before they eventually die of starvation (or rather heart failure). Something tells me with everything that is happening in this world, that information will come in handy .

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


Well...like you said, it depends on the person. Mainly, it depends on a person's activity level. A sedentary person would deplete liver glycogen between 12-24 hours (I would assume more body fat would increase depletion time because of increased ketone bodies in the bloodstream). An active individual would can deplete glycogen in a matter of an hour or two. What's important, however, is that upon liver glycogen depletion, the body will temporarily burn only fat (and ketones), including the brain, as long as one remains relatively sedentary (nothing more than moderate exercise).

Truthfully, at the end of the day it depends on body fat %. Because even though glucose is needed, the body's ability to burn ketones in place of glucose can postpone starvation. There will be some muscle wasting for everyone once glycogen is depleted but it's miniscule and doesn't really go into full gear until body fat % percentage is between 5-10%.

(on a side note: Fasting isn't necessary to achieve significant weightloss. Ketogenic diets, which are high-fat, low-carb carb diets, are almost metabolically identicle to fasting. Insulin drops and glucagon rises and fat is readily available to be oxidised. Ketosis then occurs.)

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
(keep in mind, too, that when you fast any longer than 48 hours..your body's metabolism will slow down due to the inactivity of the digestion system, which is the second most energy-demanding "system" behind the brain.

That's really surprising to me. I wouldn't have guessed that. I mean, by size alone, I would have guessed our skeletal muscles would have used more. Fascinating!

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


I learned the 3/4 rule: depending on the individual's biological makeup, they will survivie 3-4 minutes without air, 3-4 days without water, and 3-4 weeks without food. It's in one of my Tom Brown guides - I think it's the one on urban survival. The body can go far longer than we initially think it could without food. As previously mentioned, our bodies are incredibly efficient at storing and retrieving energy sources. Water? Not so much. We're pretty screwed without that.

Hope that helps!

reply to post by daynight42


The digestive system is comprised of muscles.

But, skeletal muscles aren't always being used so energy demands during rest are low, which is why they burn fat at rest. The digestive system typically is moving food from ingestion to excretion constantly. If you don't eat, after a while the digestive system will have no ingested food to digest.

And skeletal muscles don't burn as much energy as people expect during heavy physical activity. Even lifting heavy weights and jogging aren't going to burn many calories during the workout.

OH...a brain cell carbohydrate energy demand is twice that of any other cell in the body.

reply to post by daynight42


fasting is very dangerous as it can lower your blood sugar and stop your heart or give you a heart attack.
that is why we have meal times.

fasting can kill you by making you weak and prone to infection.

fasting can kill you by you accident prone due to mental weekness.

fasting is also bad for the economy as it reduces profits for food companies and reduce tax collection by IRS.

fasting can make you angry,irritable and do acts of violence due to frustration.

that is why mozloms are in a state of perpetual war with us western folks as they take out their empty bellies out on us americans.