What God really is...?

I have faith; I do, just not in a selfish supreme being that says I have to obey it only.
What about those who live a life of selflessness and bring happiness to others, with or without the same god as the majority.

One of my favorite quotes comes from Morgan Freeman in a movie.

Originally posted by MrGrimm
I have faith; I do, just not in a selfish supreme being that says I have to obey it only.

Well, if you're referring to the biblical god, you will be tortured forever in fire if you don't.

reply to post by MrGrimm


nice one - I think I'm God, funny I was just telling someone.....

" I create, I destroy, I'm omnipotent and omnipresent in my own reality "

I understand you are also God in the same sense, with that understanding, I go forward ♥

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by MrGrimm
I have faith; I do, just not in a selfish supreme being that says I have to obey it only.

Well, if you're referring to the biblical Morgan Freeman, you will be tortured forever in fire if you don't.

edit on 29-7-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

fixed

reply to post by mr10k

reply to post by Hydroman

Haha!
I guess with a name like MrGrimm, I'm heading in the right direction.

Originally posted by MrGrimm
I have faith; I do, just not in a selfish supreme being that says I have to obey it only.
What about those who live a life of selflessness and bring happiness to others, with or without the same god as the majority.

One of my favorite quotes comes from Morgan Freeman in a movie.

I have faith, but I believe that they were celestialitic Extra terrestrials. There are many things that people look upon, and many lies and many truths. But, again, it iw what I personally believe, seeing as they came down in vessels. They always come down from the sky. why not the earth, why not the trees. I try my best to do good for people, but Church, I dont believe in. Most churches Teach fear, and that is not right in my opinion. I have no religeon.. Just beliefs and theories..

Where in your scripture ( this is you Christians and the like...) can you prove that your god is kind and merciful??

Everything it does is horrible.

Originally posted by MrGrimm
I have faith; I do, just not in a selfish supreme being that says I have to obey it only.
What about those who live a life of selflessness and bring happiness to others, with or without the same god as the majority.

Mainsteam religion has made God into an "imaginary friend for grownups". The real God is infinitely more complex than that. Living a selfless life and seeking to make others happy is very noble, personally I don't think it'll earn you any brownie points with the real God, but that doesn't mean it's not important to society, it is.

reply to post by MrGrimm


Dear MrGrimm,

I can only describe my belief in what God is like. I don't think he wants us to "obey", I think he wants us to try and be good to one another. If we are good to one another than we are of a like mind to my God, we are in agreement. If we know a God that appreciates selflessness and he would appreciate anyone who was even if they didn't know him by name, he would appreciate people of a same heart. But, then my God gets blamed for everything that we do here on earth.

Originally posted by OldRepublic22
Where in your scripture ( this is you Christians and the like...) can you prove that your god is kind and merciful??

Everything it does is horrible.

Forget scripture, this is the second time I've posted this today so forgive me if you read it in the other thread, but the Bible isn't required for belief in God. Per the Ontological Argument, God is that "which nothing greater can be thought" and if one can imagine such a being, then He therefore must exist (that's the very short version,if you're not familiar with it you can look on Wiki for more info or Google it, there's lots of discussion on the 'net about it). Now if one accepts the God is that which nothing greater can be thought, then clearly "everything it does is horrible" doesn't fit the profile. The obvious conclusion is that the "horrible" things, whatever you may be thinking of, were not performed or sanctioned by God because by definition He's not capable of evil. But since you don't believe, then you're already acknowledging that, aren't you. IE, if you don't think there's a God, then you clearly don't think He's responsible for horrible things, right? You think horrible things happen for other reasons anway, so clearly that's not proof that there is no God.

reply to post by AQuestion


Yeah man, I mean, if god were to exist, god would think that way I guess, I could believe that.
However, I'm referring to the gods in books, it's their way or the highway.

reply to post by MrGrimm


Dear MrGrimm,

If I spank my kids when they fight, I still love them. Perhaps our descriptions in the books were by people who didn't understand the reason for the things he did. We tend to think that people have the same intent as us, we explain things based on our emotions, how could we describe God's intent?

Each day comparing various belief systems (religious, philosophical, spiritual, metaphysical) with quantum mechanics, and discerning with my heart and meditation.... I feel that 'god' is the all contained within the one, and the one contained within the all. "We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively."

Pantheism is a metaphysical and religious position. Broadly defined it is the view that (1) “God is everything and everything is God … the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature” (Owen 1971: 74). Similarly, it is the view that (2) everything that exists constitutes a “unity” and this all-inclusive unity is in some sense divine (MacIntyre 1967: 34). A slightly more specific definition is given by Owen (1971: 65) who says (3) “‘Pantheism’ … signifies the belief that every existing entity is, only one Being; and that all other forms of reality are either modes (or appearances) of it or identical with it.”

[Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

reply to post by AQuestion


Ohh without a doubt, I know you love your kids, even if you do spank them.
And so do I, but I won't kill one of my kids to teach the other a lesson.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, actions speak louder than words and gods in books are full of actions. Whether they are misinterpretations or fairytales that provide morals, I'm passed it being the only way of life.

I have my beliefs and they are just fine for me, I don't need to follow a books rule to be a good human towards others and myself. Nor do I need a book to comfort me on death. I can’t say I don’t believe in god, but I can say I don’t agree with the majority’s belief systems.

I just can't stand thinking that we are born into this world a prisoner and have to prove ourselves worthy; by believing in a selfish god, who will make you life a living hell (literally) if you don't believe he's the only one. But... if you do, it's the only way for true happiness in the afterlife.

I think if god really is supreme and has a divine intelligence we can't reach (supposedly), I'm sure god can do a better job than the previous incarnations.

Originally posted by MrGrimm
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I have my beliefs and they are just fine for me, I don't need to follow a books rule to be a good human towards others and myself. Nor do I need a book to comfort me on death. I can’t say I don’t believe in god, but I can say I don’t agree with the majority’s belief systems.

I just can't stand thinking that we are born into this world a prisoner and have to prove ourselves worthy; by believing in a selfish god, who will make you life a living hell (literally) if you don't believe he's the only one. But... if you do, it's the only way for true happiness in the afterlife.

Dear McGrimm,

I do not know who told you that you needed a book, certainly not I. I also don't believe we need to prove ourselves as "worthy", we are all imperfect. I don't believe that knowing a name or believing out of fear saves anyone. If I truly love my neighbor as myself then I do understand others who think the same way. Salvation is nothing more than having a relationship, an interaction with. We have the right to choose with whom and in what manner we have relationships with other sentient beings and they have the right to choose not to have a relationship with us.

People's expectations and refusal to take responsibility for their own actions lead them to explain and read the bible incorrectly. People want God to resemble Santa Claus bringing them presents. I have asked people what they would like God to be like and they usually say that they would want God to protect us from bad things including people who would harm us. That would be a rigged game and we would learn little from it. People ask why God allows war, I ask why we choose to engage in war.

Let us consider adultery. The bible says that it is not a good thing to do, yet, people do commit adultery. Our actions have effects and adultery rarely makes anything better. So someone commits adultery, the family is broken up, finances are in ruin and animosity exists. These are not punishments from God, these are consequences to our actions. Still, we insist on doing such things.

Another quick example (and truly believe whatever you want, I am just responding to what you wrote to me), a woman smokes crack while pregnant and a baby is born with birth defects, that is also not God's fault, that is a consequence of the mother's action. It is not the baby's fault nor God's. For there truly to be free will there must be risk. Life is short and we all die, we spend a little time on earth deciding who we truly are and what we are truly willing to do for one another and we all do so with a handicap, we are not all knowing or perfect.

The bible is people attempting to explain history in human terms. I cannot imagine that an all knowing and all powerful being truly gets "angry", it doesn't really make sense. Humans assume intent based on their understanding, their reasons for what they do. The story of Job is a good example. God didn't hate Job, he allowed Job to prove himself, to prove that we were not just cookie chasers. Remember the story starts with Satan accusing humanity day and night. I ask people what they think Satan accuses us of, I think it is a question worth asking. Heck, lets take God out of the equation at all, what do people accuses humanity of and are well all guilty? Are we all selfish, are we all lazy, are we all rapists or murderers, is humanity evil just because there are people who do evil? Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion


You’re preaching to the quire man.
You're explanation was written and thought out well too, I enjoyed it.

I'm not questioning myself here just to be clear, if the majority thought more like you and me I think we'd be better off. Not at our best, but better off.

I've read a few religious books, some were required a second read, they're nice stories at best now.The point I'm trying to make is the books of our religions are out dated, at our point of spiritual evolution. They seem to cause more harm then help now, we need a new understanding of god if we are going to keep pursuing the belief in god.

reply to post by MrGrimm


Dear MrGrimm,

LOL, I promise I am not attempting to preach, just present my answer.

As for the books. I am most definetly a Christian and make no effort to hide it. I don't look at the bible as the end of the questions, merely as the beginning of living in a loving way. Hmmm. For the past 5 hours I was talking to a gay Pastor, I am neither gay nor a pastor, he is a friend who is looking at reaching out to those who have left the church. He does not want to talk about being gay, he wants to talk about love, faith and forgiveness. We both start with the bible and we are both disappointed with how the church has lost it's true and simple message, love.

When this person first came to me I did not know he was a pastor, a month later when he told me he was gay I was surprised; but, didn't really care about his sexuality, I was more concerned about his beliefs (which we happen to mostly share) regarding God. For quite a long time the bible has given people a introduction to God through the eyes of man. We say the Bible is inspired, yes like a tv movie it is inspired by true events; however, people used their language and social understanding to explain what they thought they witnessed. The books are still relevant; but, our culture and language has changed so we don't understand the context properly. The same is true for those that read Shakespeare. I don't believe the books have failed, I believe we have failed to understand them because of the changed society we live in.

If I may give an example. The story of Abraham and Issac is perfectly misunderstood on many levels. At that time it was common for people to sacrifice children to the gods. Gold instructs Abraham to sacrifice Issac and Abraham takes his son to an alter in order to commit such a thing. God stops him and says that he is not the kind of God that would want such a thing. He was trying to break Abraham of the false ideas that he had about what a God was. God then had Abraham take a calf (or sheep), cut it in half and lay it on the ground. A pillar of smoke (God's essence) then passed between the two halves. When we read this today we may not understand why God had Abraham sacrifice a calf, some wonder if it was as a sacrifice in lieu of his son; but, the real reason had to do with an existing ritual. When a contract was made between two parties it was common to seal the deal (make it official and enforceable) by killing an animal and walking between the halves. The book is fine; but, we no longer understand the context and therefore it is difficult to understand the lessons.

When the Old Testament was written and when those things occurred, they occurred in a social context for the participants. By the time of Jesus, a new social context existed and he had to correct the misconceptions about Gods intent, he did this by explaining the essence of the whole thing, Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. We can all live with that; but, we bring up the past (by the way, don't ever do that too often with your partner, lol). What happened to Abraham was to get him to move from where he was, he would not have understood Jesus at all. Humanity moves forward in steps and we are just part of the trip.

When Jesus corrected the leaders of the church in his day, he was clearly saying that it was time to come to the next level of understanding. Sort of a "You learned not to poop in your pants, now it is time to learn to use a toilet" if you will. So I guess my question to you is what do you think the next book should say? Jesus said that he came to fulfill the prophesies and the old testament. How does the new Testament get fulfilled and are we ready to move ahead as a group, as humanity or do some still need to catch up and understand that killing and hatred are wrong. I bet that is the lesson of Armageddon. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion

I really think you're doing the right thing with the bible. You're looking at it with modern eyes, and I applaud you for it. I've never once thought that we should never have religion, but I do believe the tradition of it is clouding the judgment of those who probably need it more than you can I would ever could.

I'd keep doing what you’re doing; it's not combative and very peaceful.

From one avid ex-christian to a current... peace be with you.

simply put... God is reality.
Our universe, the material world, is simply a projection of God. Nothing else.

Also human praises or insults to God will NOT will neither add nor take away from His glory.

Originally posted by MrGrimm
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I really think you're doing the right thing with the bible. You're looking at it with modern eyes, and I applaud you for it. I've never once thought that we should never have religion, but I do believe the tradition of it is clouding the judgment of those who probably need it more than you can I would ever could.

I'd keep doing what you’re doing; it's not combative and very peaceful.

From one avid ex-christian to a current... peace be with you.

Dear MrGrimm,

And peace be with you. There is a line in the bible that I frequently have used with fundamentalists, "Your tradition makes void the word of God". There is another place where in discussing new Christians, it basically says give babies, baby food and adults meat. The early Jews were as babies to God so they got baby food, Christ was for us during societies teen years. I think we may be just about ready for more, we shall see. For "christians" who rely on their traditions and don't even know their bible I am very combative with them. Their misinterpretations do more harm that a million non-believers ever could.

I believe that we Christians need to clean our houses. From one Christian to an avid ex-christian, it is your life and only you should choose your path, I wish you well on your wherever it takes you. Be well.