A question about metaphysical morality.

I have become a believer in life after death.

My reasons for this believe are many.

The Egyptians weighing of the heart, the many documented NDE's, the theories on multiple universes and dimensions, and so on.

So I have some questions:

If we take the weighing of the heart. I might have done great harm to people, that I meant no harm, and subsequently never learned of that harm in life. Would that weigh down my heart? On the other hand, I might have felt that I hurt someone at some point, but in reality, they did not get hurt, but it had been a weight on my heart, so to speak.

If we take _most_ NDE's, they just explain that they relive whatever pain, mentally or psychically, that they may have caused others. The same basic example from above, applies here. But with a different premise, as I imagine that I would be delightfully happy, to find out that I did not hurt someone I thought I did. On the other hand, why should I suffer through a weak person in my path's abnormal suffering?

And if we take the whole new age/indigo movement, as I understand it, we more or less create what we experience. Could I then do anything that I feel good about, as long as I'm not evil? If I feel in my heart, that that I can pick up 50 dollars of the street, is that okay? Even though someone might really need it, and will come back to look, only to find it missing. On the other hand, if we create our world, and I feel that it's okay to take, then no one will miss it. But then, where does it stop?

I hope you understand me

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by BabiesGame69
[SNIP]

Okay, my question is no joke.

added comment: the world has really gone morally wrong these days teenagers really do what i stated

Originally posted by BabiesGame69
added comment: the world has really gone morally wrong these days teenagers really do what i stated

How do you know? I wouldn't be surprised though. It's sad and funny if it's so. Sunny, or fad..

I have a much simpler way of helping you out OP. Everything you just said is made up. It's all a fairy tale. Don't worry about any of it. There is no proof for any of these wild claims so put your mind at ease.

Also, you're linking different beliefs and stories to each other. That's inherently flawed due to the exclusive nature of religious beliefs. You really need to pick one. You can't just mix them up, make something new, and assume you're going to make your way into whatever pleasant afterlife. That's just not how it works.

reply to post by modeselektor


I'm ever so glad to not be burdened with such moral quandaries as these. Morals, ethics, and the like are all just human constructs. Good and evil are fictions. That metaphorical fifty bucks on the ground? Damn right I'll scoop it, due to the fact that even if the clumsy sod who dropped it does come back, someone else will have grabbed it if not myself! He lost it. One mans loss, is someone elses gain. I know it not pleasant, but its the way the world tends to work. I can promise that the cosmos couldn't care less what moral code you adhere to. The only one that does is yourself. If it makes you happy, and leaves you feeling fulfilled, then more the power to you... but in the greater scheme of things, good and evil, right and wrong, are ultimately just beliefs.

reply to post by SpringHeeledJack


reply to post by WhiskyKisses


So if I feel like it, I can steal a gun, rob some stores, and live it up, without having to worry about others than me?

Originally posted by modeselektor
reply to post by SpringHeeledJack

 

reply to post by WhiskyKisses

 

So if I feel like it, I can steal a gun, rob some stores, and live it up, without having to worry about others than me?

*chuckles* yes. Of course that what I mean. You caught me there. *sigh* All I'm saying is that there isn't some inviolable moral wall preventing you from doing anything. Lets use your "steal a gun, rob folks, live the high life" example... taken to the silly extreme as it may have been. There is absolutely no morality police to stop you from doing that what so ever. Animals steal things from other animals constantly. Lacking a morality police though, there is a very real police who will be more than happy to put an end to the little spree you suggested. All I'm stating, is that there is very little difference between us and any other animal. I'm not advocated anarchy, or lawlessness or any other such implication you may be interested in attributing to me. I'm simply saying that morals, and the concepts of good and evil are human constructs. They aren't even a constant! What is "evil" in one situation, is applauded in another. A man kills twenty other men, he's rightly judged an animal and imprisoned. A SOLDIER kills twenty men, he gets a medal and a pat on the back. I'm not saying that is any less justified. What I am stating though, is that concept such as "good" and "evil" can't exist in the same world in which a dichotomy like I mentioned above also exists.

That'd just be silly.

reply to post by WhiskyKisses


Well I do believe that we receive some type of contest guided review when we die.

And I know disbelievers in your own theory, often throw violent and absurd thought experiments around, to derail people.

I just wanted some input that I could apply my logic to

reply to post by modeselektor


"If we take the weighing of the heart. I might have done great harm to people, that I meant no harm, and subsequently never learned of that harm in life."
some say---the road to hell is paved with good intentions, maybe so in this world. but i think intentions CAN weigh very heavily on our hearts---and they matter a lot more than we care to admit (despite what others think or say) and so i take that, from the egyptians, as meaning more of: is your heart HEAVY with the guilt of your past actions? if so, resolve that---the heaviness lies with yourself, not others reaction to YOUR actions--especially if well-intentioned. people all have their own things to deal with and sometimes one person causing another 'pain' is simply an innocent act that in the same breath teaches another a valuable lesson. intentions matter, and if you feel guilt, resolve it---no matter if you intended ill or not. find a way to resolve that guilt.


i think the same about the NDE's you speak of. those that you TRULY wrong, you may certainly experience that which you have dished out (imo at this point, more often INTENTIONALLY dished out--or carelessly), but it does not mean that any time some silly little baby gets hurt by your just or rational actions that you will necessarily feel THEIR pain, i don't think. thats their own lesson. introspection and self-satisfaction, TRUE spiritual satisfaction--as with resolving guilt--will show that which is YOUR responsibility and that which is OTHERS. in some situations, that may be BOTH parties are very responsible for anothers pain, but in different ways...and it is in THOSE ways, the ways in which we hurt others and do not LEARN they are wrong and resolve the wrongness in guilt....in THOSE ways will we experience those pains to teach us a lesson. this is all just my take on it, of course there are many opinions

you have to find out what is right by you standards, do what thou wilt but with discretion---that part need not be said, it should be assumed. just saying cause people interpret thelema and crowley as "they wilt" ;p is it right to pick up that $50? is that spiritually wrong? the answer, i think, will and should be different to different people seeking different paths. should someone rape another or knowingly mislead another for nefarious means? thats a given, the grey area is for you to decide. :/ we create our own realities, and it is our responsibility to create with the knowledge we are creating along with OTHER people....those who are in your life resonate with your reality and in many ways share that reality--you should be aware and considerate of this in intentionally creating your own. and as well as not hurting other strangers. but should you worry yourself about BEING yourself and doing what you do? not unless you are a jeffrey dahmer or charles manson. lol

Originally posted by BabiesGame69
[SNIP]

i see what you mean as it is a joke...but this is real, i imagine people innocently do this without realizing the metaphysical implications of their intentions.

its humorously absurd, at least.

reply to post by double_frick


Thank you for your post, that was something that I could apply my logic to. Even if it is just your own view, it seems pretty well thought through. And it ties the 3 'theories' I cited, nicely together.

I have been philosophically stuck for a while, because I weren't able to fit together those 3 believes, and I found them all to be both fair and logical. So thanks for taking it serious

Originally posted by modeselektor
I have become a believer in life after death.

My reasons for this believe are many.

The Egyptians weighing of the heart, the many documented NDE's, the theories on multiple universes and dimensions, and so on.

So I have some questions:

If we take the weighing of the heart. I might have done great harm to people, that I meant no harm, and subsequently never learned of that harm in life. Would that weigh down my heart? On the other hand, I might have felt that I hurt someone at some point, but in reality, they did not get hurt, but it had been a weight on my heart, so to speak.

If we take _most_ NDE's, they just explain that they relive whatever pain, mentally or psychically, that they may have caused others. The same basic example from above, applies here. But with a different premise, as I imagine that I would be delightfully happy, to find out that I did not hurt someone I thought I did. On the other hand, why should I suffer through a weak person in my path's abnormal suffering?

And if we take the whole new age/indigo movement, as I understand it, we more or less create what we experience. Could I then do anything that I feel good about, as long as I'm not evil? If I feel in my heart, that that I can pick up 50 dollars of the street, is that okay? Even though someone might really need it, and will come back to look, only to find it missing. On the other hand, if we create our world, and I feel that it's okay to take, then no one will miss it. But then, where does it stop?

I hope you understand me

Thanks in advance.

edit on 28-7-2011 by modeselektor because: Made it clear, that I am asking questions, not making statements.

Since there exists no evidence whatsoever of a life after death, basing one's morality on pure belief in an afterlife is an epistemological fallacy.

Nothing could ever exist if the effect was the exact same and opposite of the cause - reality would simply cancel itself out.

reply to post by SystemResistor


reply to post by rashomon


Well that may be, but there are no evidence for the opposite either. And I believe it when a vast number of people experience the same thing while their brain is not functioning, plus they can give detailed accounts of what happened in the room while they were flatlining.

Most of the values and morals we have in the west, are based on the idea of life after death. Whether you like it or not, you are influenced from society and the people in it, and it's pretty much only in our lifetime, that people really start asking these questions openly.

reply to post by modeselektor


In the purest sense, I refer to the creation of the universe, and how it spiralls into random directions, that spark is unstable, and although we would like to believe that there is a supreme law, the truth is, is that, the only real thing is that we are able to make decisions that are either a creation of new energy, or a reduction of existing energy - those that have been in the latter category, incur a "debt", and those in the former category have worked to earn thier enery.

Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by modeselektor

 

In the purest sense, I refer to the creation of the universe, and how it spiralls into random directions, that spark is unstable, and although we would like to believe that there is a supreme law, the truth is, is that, the only real thing is that we are able to make decisions that are either a creation of new energy, or a reduction of existing energy - those that have been in the latter category, incur a "debt", and those in the former category have worked to earn thier enery.

What you are saying, just doesn't match the vast coinciding findings by theorist, scientist and ancient knowledge uncovered lately.

reply to post by modeselektor


In that sense, if we observe this reality to a fundamental level, from each atom to each cell and the complex machinery of our biological beings, to the even more complex balance of our living ecosystem, there are rules that we can extrapolate, in terms of what attributes to the creation of life, and what detracts from the creation of life.

Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by modeselektor

 

In that sense, if we observe this reality to a fundamental level, from each atom to each cell and the complex machinery of our biological beings, to the even more complex balance of our living ecosystem, there are rules that we can extrapolate, in terms of what attributes to the creation of life, and what detracts from the creation of life.

So we kind of agree It's just the approach that differs slightly.