Christian fundamentalists & Right-Wing Muslim opposition... EPIC FAIL.

From what i can tell this guy wanted to make a statment about not flooding his country with more immigrants in an effort to push down wages for the corporations and the goverment won't give these people air time to have their say so he did it in another way.

When did you last see an inteligent man being interviewed by the MSM that didn't pretent to be a tree hugging, let more in type of guy but it's OK to see people who fully suport dropping bombs on Muslims day after day.

Bit of a contradiction don't you think and goes to show most people have been programmed in what to think.

We should put all fundamentalists of any persuasion on an Island and let them fight it out between themselves, let us normal folk get on with trying to live our lives in peace, surely the desire of 99% of the world population.

Originally posted by The Revenant
Yes, it is the point of the thread - but at the same time, one of our friendly resident Muslim members has pointed out that people are disappointed this isn't a Muslim crime. They want it to be, so that they can continue using ATS as a staging point for their hate campaign against anyone that isn't Christian, or right-wing. Most of their speech isn't edited / deleted or dealt with - it's just left as general conversation because the standard has fallen so low - we expect it.

It's certainly true that a lot of posters were all too quick to blame Muslims, long before any details of the suspect(s) came through. There are clearly a number of Islamophobes on ATS, but the problem with your thread is that you appear to be pigeonholing Christian fundamentalist right-wingers as the source of anti-Muslim sentiment. A lot of the Islamophobic posters are also atheist, or at least non-religious, as I've seen them spewing their bile towards other religions and religious people, too.

There is also the fact that many of the Islamophobes are genuinely fearful of Muslims, rather than hateful. This is in no small part due to the ridiculous stories which emanate from certain section of the media. A lot of people are conditioned to think terrorism = Muslim.

Originally posted by The Revenant
Here's to hoping the community recognises the danger that is present with all of our resident fundamentalist Christians... we all know who they are and the hate that they spew on a daily basis - no matter how veiled it is.

Again, you are tarring all Christian fundamentalists and/or right wingers with the same brush. You may strongly dislike their ideologies, but you can't seriously believe that everybody in these groups are ''haters''.

You are as guilty of generalising in this thread as those who you are venting against.

Originally posted by The Revenant
I wonder if this Norwegian fellow was a member here?

His main internet moniker was apparently ''fjordman''. I searched on ATS to see whether there was a member by that name, but there apparently isn't/wasn't, but some of his online ''work'' was referenced in a few threads. Although, of course, he could have been a member under another name.

reply to post by Master_007

From what i can tell this guy wanted to make a statment about not flooding his country with more immigrants in an effort to push down wages for the corporations and the goverment won't give these people air time to have their say so he did it in another way.

Let's not paint this guy as some folk hero, he is a cold blooded killer. It's like me trying to justify the actions of the 7/7 bombers by saying we are oppressing Muslims in the middle east. There is NO excuse for mass murder of innocents.

I don't see how anyone can judge anyone else because all the information I've seen about this horrible day looks like pure, manufactured JUNK.

I hear you OP.

People are divided into two groups - the righteous and the unrighteous - and the righteous do the dividing. Lord Cohen

How ironic...an OP exposing the hate of the right in an even more hateful and vicious tone.

1. Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare and refers to conflicts in which a small group of combatants including, but not limited to, armed civilians (or "irregulars") use military tactics, such as ambushes, sabotage, raids, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target military or political target, and withdraw almost immediately. These types of groups specifically do not target civilian populations or centers. They generally go out of their way to avoid injury to the civilian population The term means "little war" in Spanish, and the word, guerrilla, has been used to describe the concept since the 18th century, and perhaps earlier.

2. Freedom fighter is another term for those engaged in a struggle to achieve political freedom for themselves or obtain freedom for others. Though the literal meaning of the words could include anyone who fights for the cause of freedom, in common use it may be restricted to those who are actively involved in an armed rebellion, rather than those who campaign for freedom by peaceful means.

3. Terrorism is defined as political violence in an conflict that is designed to induce terror and psychic fear through the violent victimization and destruction of noncombatant targets. Such acts are meant to send a message from an illicit clandestine organization. The purpose of terrorism is to exploit the media in order to achieve maximum attainable publicity as an amplifying force multiplier in order to influence the targeted audience in order to reach short- and midterm political goals and desired long-term end states.

The above definitions are from a paper presented in a regional security conference in SEA last year, I only have a hard copy of it which includes the following quote.

A quote from Bruce Hoffman: ( I am unable to find the paper online that this came from.)

Bruce Hoffman, a well-known scholar, has noted that: It is not only individual agencies within the same governmental apparatus that cannot agree on a single definition of terrorism. By distinguishing terrorists from other types of criminals and terrorism from other forms of crime, we come to appreciate that terrorism is : Ineluctably political in aims and motives. Violent – or, equally important, threatens violence. Designed to have far-reaching psychological repercussions beyond the immediate victim or target. Conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia). Perpetrated by a sub-national group or non-state entity.

These people are not Freedom Fighters, or Guerrilla's they are CRIMINALS! And this does not matter what religion or political doctrine they follow, Nothing more than criminals.

Seems to me this guy was simply a psychopath, i'm guessing the reason for the media bash up on so called right wing or Muslim hating views are this

@AndersBBreivik
One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests.

One line on his twitter account.

Interestingly according to prison planet, Before it was deleted, Breivik’s Facebook page showed the killer dressed in full masonic regalia.

For the uninformed, Masons and Fundamentalist Christians are very different things and indeed incompatible.

Also according to what i can find on-line, the victims where Predominantly White Norwegians, which suggests somehow this is political rather than religious. One day prior Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr was at the camp.

For all we know, this guy may have been the target from the beginning because he ran over Breivik's dog.

Ive noticed almost daily for the past few weeks one or more of the on-line news papers i read is talking about "Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists" as “White Al-Qaeda” and the new threat.

Its a very sad moment, and even sadder for people taking political advantage of the situation. What gun rights that where had in this country will most likely be removed because of this and im sure more freedoms will be taken away. Disgusting.

how's the war in Iraq going???
I mean, Saddam was a horrible dictator, but he was a horrible dictator that wouldn't take crap from Islamic fundies!!
so, well, our president at the time, with the support of the christian fundies of the US, just had to remove him!!!
and well, looks to me like there's a good chance the the Islamic fundies will have much more control over the nation!!! seems to me that the line between muslim and christian isn't as set as the line between traditionalist and modernist....

not all muslims are traditionalists, not all christians are...
but much of the problems that we are facing are the result of the clash between the traditionalists and the ones who are more open minded to the modern ways.
at one time, I did a small study of the pharisees and the saducees of the bible, and walked away thinking that they were much like the dems and the republicans.....can't remember how I came to that conclusion, but I did....
seems that this clash has been going on a long, long time....
if I remember right, Jesus didn't like either group too well....

I don't believe for a second that political ideology caused this horrific tragedy. This man was simply a psychotic killer - I don't think his political path was the trigger of his murderous actions, but rather influenced him in the choosing of his victim. This massacre was not carried out by the "right" or by a fundamentalist Christian, but rather this was carried out by a man - a mad man. Blaming a political ideology for this mess does nothing but try to politicize a psychotic act. Individuals should be held responsible for their actions, not their political associations.

Originally posted by Syyth007
Blaming a political ideology for this mess does nothing but try to politicize a psychotic act. Individuals should be held responsible for their actions, not their political associations.

Sure...as long as the same rules apply when the next Muslim fundy commits an atrocity.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
For you to use this shooting to score petty points against religious and political ideologies which you disagree with, is every bit as irresponsible, erroneous and dangerous as those who use acts of Islamic extremism as an excuse to promote hatred against all Muslims.

I kinda think that was the point. And I completely agree with making the point. The eagerness with which MANY here jump on the Muslim hatred wagon is one indication that the membership has morphed into Stormfront Revisited, IMO.

That's not cool, bro.

I think it's cool to point out hypocrisy where it lives... I think it's VERY cool.

Originally posted by The Revenant
They want it to be, so that they can continue using ATS as a staging point for their hate campaign against anyone that isn't Christian, or right-wing. Most of their speech isn't edited / deleted or dealt with - it's just left as general conversation because the standard has fallen so low - we expect it.

reply to post by The Revenant


Blood has been spilled in the name of religion for over 2,000 years, As horrible as this situation is, it's nothing new at all.

VERY well said! S&F, two if I could...

Originally posted by The Revenant
How long will it be before someone on MY side of the fence takes it upon themselves to respond in kind when presented with this constant threat? How long before a cult of baptist church goers (for example) is slaughtered in their pews?

Interesting thought, but I doubt it will ever happen. It is usually the "conservative" "fundamentalist" types that go for the violence... they cannot stand the thought of somebody somewhere disagreeing with What They Know Is TRUE, and they'll kill whomever they have to to make sure of that.

Progressive types are in general more likely to want to understand different cultures and people, not so much kill them.

And if such a thing ever does happen, we can be sure the right wing will be shrieking it from the rooftops for weeks.

Good job pointing out the hypocracy on this site. This place used to be a good place to go for intelligent political discussion. That is no longer the case. As far as politics goes, the quality of discussions here have been worse than what can be scraped out of a gutter for a while now... might as well become a freeper and wallow in hate.

Well done!

OP, your hatred of the incident is completely overshadowed by what seems to be a case of you furthering what MSM wants everyone to think. The last time I checked, a "fundamentalist Christian" doesn't use Occultist numbers, break the 10 Commandments and dress up in Freemasonry dress.

"But those who abandon their reason and senses when interpreting the Bible—the position of fundamentalism or verbalistic fideism—are in fact not showing any great honor to the Bible’s authority or God's word. They are actually distorting Scripture’s authentic meaning and sealing themselves off to the living Word by refusing to use their God-given faculties of mind. The correct and faithful way of reading Scripture includes scientific reasoning, which is also a tool of spiritual discernment. "

Ah the hypocriscy of the Islamist appeasers, wetting their pants over the first terror attack against the facilitators of the Islamic colonisation of the West - this is ONE! counter attack vs the THOUSANDS of muslim terror attacks that you blithely sweep aside as the actions of a tinytiny irrelevent minority of misguided extremists!

The collapse of Europe into jihadi civil war is a done deal! - it may take a few generations or it could be sparked off next month via a ME war.

This has all been made possible thanks to the usefull idiots.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I kinda think that was the point.

And I completely agree with making the point. The eagerness with which MANY here jump on the Muslim hatred wagon is one indication that the membership has morphed into Stormfront Revisited, IMO.

That would be all well and good if every anti-Muslim comment came from Christian fundamentalist right-wingers. However, Islamophobia is hardly the sole preserve of right-wing Christians - either in real-life or on ATS - now is it ?

That is the flaw with this thread. The OP is using the events in Norway as a vehicle to spew his own personal dislike of selected religious and political ideologies, rather than a critique on the eagerness of anti-Muslim members - of all persuasions - to point the finger of blame towards Islamic extremists for the attacks.

I accept that the OP is angry and upset at the events yesterday, which explains why he let forth his own personal prejudices in such a vehement manner. I'm sure he would have posted a more measured, helpful and responsible thread on the subject when his emotions weren't running so high.

There's no point complaining about hateful rhetoric amongst some people towards religious/political groups by using incendiary comments specifically targeting other religious/political groups. That's hypocrisy, and rather defeats the idea that this thread was intended to point out the problems of irresponsible and incendiary anti-Muslim posts.

That's not cool.

How bizarre!
OP, you're saying that this man was a right wing christian extremist who hates Muslims, yet he kills 84 white christian children? Does that make sense to you?
What was interesting was that apparantly he used 6 tons of fertilizer in his bombing spree and yet this morning two security experts on the BBC claimed that he must have used the very latest plastic explosives and detonators. The last I looked you could not pick those things up at your local supermarket. I'm surprised they haven't claimed he used chapatti flour and bleach!!!!
Non of this makes sense and hence our judgement on WHO, WHY and WHAT needs to be held back........for a little while.
However, he was certainly not on a rampage against Muslim peoples as non were deliberately targeted.

Originally posted by Zamini
Right-Wing Christian fundamentalist terrorist.


Hey, refresh my memory again, who are the Right Wing Christians best friends with? It shows a lot in the US. As to how he got his guns...maybe he was helped by those friendly to Right Wing Christians.


Fooks, you best be quiet from now on.

edit on 23-7-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)

[/quote

or what zami?