Belief Systems: Divine Inspiration and Human Fallibility

reply to post by Hydroman
It's all about justice and Pharaoh is the type of Satan, who will be killed, the old god who fell and enslaved mankind in sin.
He had to be given every opportunity to repent and that means persuasive arguments, together with signs, so it is clear enough to anyone looking on that there was a problem with him and why he ultimately had to be done away with.
So Moses and Aaron are equipped to give the best arguments possible to where Pharaoh was left with no excuse.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
It's all about justice and Pharaoh is the type of Satan, who will be killed, the old god who fell and enslaved mankind in sin.
He had to be given every opportunity to repent and that means persuasive arguments, together with signs, so it is clear enough to anyone looking on that there was a problem with him and why he ultimately had to be done away with.
So Moses and Aaron are equipped to give the best arguments possible to where Pharaoh was left with no excuse.

Didn't you say that god hardened Pharaoh's heart? Sounds like an excuse to me....

reply to post by Hydroman
You could translate it as, Pharaoh's soul was burdened. As in, his soul continued to be burdened.
Hard to figure.
It is not so clear cut as the translation may lead you to believe.
Another example of why you need to read the Hebrew.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Hydroman

 

You could translate it as, Pharaoh's soul was burdened. As in, his soul continued to be burdened.
Hard to figure.
It is not so clear cut as the translation may lead you to believe.
Another example of why you need to read the Hebrew.

Either way, this god had something to do with Pharaoh not letting his people go.

reply to post by Hydroman
That is an assumption.
"Pharaoh has a burdened soul.
Pharaoh does not let the people go."
From that, it is logic that tells the translator that one was the result of the other.
Are you reading the Hebrew yet?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Are you reading the Hebrew yet?

No sir. Are you reading the original ancient Hebrew? You know, there are NO original manuscripts.

reply to post by Hydroman


I also have the Greek translation of the Hebrew text, which itself is rather old.
Like I said earlier probably on another thread, I have a list on my profile page of my recent book purchases.

reply to post by Hydroman


The title of your thread excluded "direct contact" with one that was supposedly "sent" by God.

You must remember the bible was written by man, inspired or not. Though there is one that is written about that was "infallible" so to speak. The OT apparently prophesied his comming Isaiah 53 And what is written about him and what he taught was complete truth.

If you consider this to be true, consider the fact that he also spoke of the existence of God.

If this man spoke nothing but truth, and you believe this to be true. You can understand how people have "faith" that God at least exists.

Understanding of what God is would be a completely different discussion.

Originally posted by Akragon
The OT apparently prophesied his comming Isaiah 53 And what is written about him and what he taught was complete truth.

According to the Jews, whom the scriptures were written for, Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

I also have the Greek translation of the Hebrew text, which itself is rather old.
Like I said earlier probably on another thread, I have a list on my profile page of my recent book purchases.

"Old" does not equal "original". Also, is it not true that things can be lost in translation, such as certain meanings of words? Like "Elohim" for example. It can mean "gods" or it can mean "one majestic god" according to the context it is written in.

I am impressed though that you can read the Hebrew and Greek. Did you go to school and learn that or did you pick it up on your own? I wish I could take the initiative to do things like that.

I learned to pronounce the words from a Rabbi, but you can do that yourself by doing what I suggested earlier which is to download the MP3's. I will give the link in case someone missed it.
www.helding.net...

It can mean "gods" or it can mean "one majestic god" according to the context it is written in.

If you want to believe that, then I'm sure there is a way to convince yourself of it.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Akragon
The OT apparently prophesied his comming Isaiah 53 And what is written about him and what he taught was complete truth.

According to the Jews, whom the scriptures were written for, Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies.

Im not a jew and i don't know much about what they believe.

What does that have to do with what i said?

Which prophecies are you refering to anyways?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Akragon
The OT apparently prophesied his comming Isaiah 53 And what is written about him and what he taught was complete truth.

According to the Jews, whom the scriptures were written for, Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies.

Im not a jew and i don't know much about what they believe.

What does that have to do with what i said?

Which prophecies are you refering to anyways?

dunno what he thinks on the subject for certain but i know what the standard explanation is: they were expecting a prophesied messiah to arrive. the text says, he would rule the nations with a rod of iron. so that's what they were expecting.

what they got was a jewish gandhi, basically, and that's not what they were expecting, so they said, jesus didn't fit the prophecies of the coming messiah. to understand this fully, i think it's important to realize what "rod of iron" means. the rod was one of two items held by a pharaoh. an iron equivalent was wielded by the emperor of the roman empire of the time. so they were expecting a pharaoh like figure, who had the authority of the roman emperor and the authority of the pharaoh, politically and religiously. some believe jesus was actually the son of julius caesar and cleopatra, making him heir to both thrones (of egypt via his mom cleo, who was the pharaoh at the time and of rome, via julius caesar, his father). supposedly, cleo was from a line of ptolemy kings who had genealogical roots back to king david. this would've also made him heir of israel's throne as well. if you put into the context of the rest of the scriptures, it does make sense.

jesus called himself the alpha and the omega, which are, among other things, appellations related to the two items of power held by all egyptian pharaohs, and spoken of in the old testament as the rod and staff of god. also, it means first and last. interestingly enough, if he was cleo's son, he would've been the last pharaoh of egypt because the roman empire took it over and removed the political and religious power of pharaoh from the world when it did so.

here's a video series on it

here's the alpha and omega.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/aee1f44facfb3aa6.jpg[/atsimg]

if the above videos are even remotely true, they missed their boat, big time.
i could see why that would be so frustrating to jesus, since he would've satisfied
their desire to be out from under pagan roman rule, would've returned the egyptian
role of pharaoh back to its roots (alpha pharaoh - which is not nimrod, but a pre flood pharaoh who
was, well, the original pharaoh (et. al, the original god)),
and made them rulers of the known world RIGHT THEN. no 2000 years of struggling,
persecution and scattering. instant>>> jehovah is lord and his people are israel, etc.

anyway, i don't adhere to everything in those videos. i think the video makers got carried away
but they do make some interesting points. afterall, the text promised them a PHARAOH AND EMPEROR, and that's what they expected. just didn't recognize it when they saw it.

Originally posted by Akragon


Im not a jew and i don't know much about what they believe.

What does that have to do with what i said?

Which prophecies are you refering to anyways?

You said the OT prophecies such as Isaiah 53 talked about him. With a quick google search, here's what the first link shows: www.aish.com...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
If you want to believe that, then I'm sure there is a way to convince yourself of it.

Well, I don't know for sure what the author meant by "elohim". In my research a few years ago I ran across that word and found it interesting that it could mean "gods". When I dug deeper I found that it could also mean "one majestic god" as well depending on the context. As I'm not fluent in ancient Hebrew, I don't have a clue what the author meant.

reply to post by Hydroman
Anyone not the most ordinary of men is a god, in the O.T.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Akragon


Im not a jew and i don't know much about what they believe.

What does that have to do with what i said?

Which prophecies are you refering to anyways?

You said the OT prophecies such as Isaiah 53 talked about him. With a quick google search, here's what the first link shows: www.aish.com...

Either way it doesn't matter what any religious group thinks about him... what matters is the lessons he taught.

Here's what I am doing and have been doing for a few days; I have these MP3's that I downloaded from the site I gave the link to earlier, in a playlist and put it on repeat so it is this guy reading the entire Book of John in the N.T. Greek. Then, when I am actually at the keyboard, I can play it back one verse at a time using Audacity. I can highlight specific parts and press Play and it just plays that much. While doing that, I look at the page in the Biblos web site corresponding to that verse, to follow along. It has several columns with the Greek characters, then with it spelled phonetically, then the English for each word.
Here's a link to one.
biblos.com...
The idea being to get to where I can just listen to the book being read in Greek and understand the whole thing.