51st state would be a red state

51st state would be a red state

www.csmonitor.com

Thirteen mostly conservative California counties would break away to create a 51st state known as South California under a proposal by an elected official that would have to clear major hurdles to succeed.

Even if leaders from the 13 counties got serious about secession, the U.S. Constitution says no new state can be formed without the consent of Congress and the state Legislature.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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California secession movements date back to the 1850's since Californians first elected to become a state of the United States.

California has become too big to govern says Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone, Republican, a situation that has led to runaway state spending.

The new state would have 13 million residents and be larger than Illinois and Ohio. Both divisions would be larger than many other American states but the Governor's office believes the proposal is just a waste of time.

Gil Duran, a spokesman for California Gov. Jerry Brown, said Stone's proposal is "a supremely ridiculous waste of everybody's time."

"If you want to live in a Republican state with very conservative right-wing laws, then there's a place called Arizona," Duran told the newspaper.

Then there is the problem of forming a new state which cannot be done without consent of US Congress. Of course this would not be the first time California would run counter to the wishes of the federal government as with medical cannabis.

A legitimate proposal, or a political ploy?

"We are sending a message," Stone told the Los Angeles Times.

www.csmonitor.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

...that number is already taken..

it is called "federal republic of germany"

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I have family out in Cali. One is a conservative, and the other is a liberal. Makes for interesting family reunions, but there is one thing they agree on. The state can't afford to keep going the way it is.

California suffers from financial retardation. But it is a painful yet cureable syndrome.

I'm curious to see how this works out. I always thought that Texas would be the first to divide into multiple states, but they seem pretty unified for the most part to me.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

California suffers from financial retardation.

I think we have the quote of the day.

I can't read this thread without thinking of this oldie but goodie from the 80's



I think California has more to worry about when you consider the big 51st state just to their south and its impact on their state budget.

Originally posted by Acetradamus
...that number is already taken..

it is called "federal republic of germany"

I would have expected Puerto Rico to become the 51st state perhaps, but there are many on that island that are dead-set against such a proposal. They continue to enjoy US citizenship though.

Almost by accident I picked-up the LA Times link as additional source in the OP. That link was newer than the other I was going to add and is a much more comprehensive report about this matter, much more so than the CSM story the OP was based on. The article includes a map of the proposed division and shows the border counties would be part of the new state. Also it includes a large part of California's inland agricultural land, though not all of it by far. California's largest ports would remain part of "Old California."

Apparently this movement has some "legs" and is seriously being considered, though not yet by the US Congress who would have to give approval for the new state. Debates continue today in the California legislature.

Puerto Rico should be told they have 2 options...be a State or good bye.

Our Federal Government spends Billions on Puerto Rico, they got ALOT of the Recovery Act funds...and aren't even a STATE.

Enough is enough.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Puerto Rico never will. They have all the pluses and none of the cons now, why change that.

Originally posted by Pervius
Puerto Rico should be told they have 2 options...be a State or good bye.

Our Federal Government spends Billions on Puerto Rico, they got ALOT of the Recovery Act funds...and aren't even a STATE.

Enough is enough.

The tax breaks a US corporation can receive by having a plant located on Puerto Rico is reason enough they would never be given that ultimatum. Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly parmaceuticals was one such instance I recall from the '80's when it was under scrutiny the claim that small plant was where the bulk of their business was being conducted. The Quayle and Bush families were major stockholders then. Not sure how that stands today.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by Pervius
Puerto Rico should be told they have 2 options...be a State or good bye.

Our Federal Government spends Billions on Puerto Rico, they got ALOT of the Recovery Act funds...and aren't even a STATE.

Enough is enough.

The tax breaks a US corporation can receive by having a plant located on Puerto Rico is reason enough they would never be given that ultimatum. Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly parmaceuticals was one such instance I recall from the '80's when it was under scrutiny the claim that small plant was where the bulk of their business was being conducted. The Quayle and Bush families were major stockholders then. Not sure how that stands today.

I work for the largest medical device manufacturer in the world and we have a manufacturing plant or two in Puerto Rico and move as much product as possible through that plant to save tax dollars.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
California secession movements date back to the 1850 since Californians first elected to become a state of the United States.

California has become too big to govern says Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone, Republican, a situation that has led to runaway state spending.

California has a larger economy than most countries in the world. I think only 5 countries have a larger economy, so the claim it's large has some merit.

But this has been discussed on and off for a long time as the article suggests (though I didn't know it went back to 1850) and hasn't come to fruition yet, so I'm not sure why it would be any different this time.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I seriously have my doubts that it will work this time either, though it seems to have more momentum than ever before. Could actually become a reality someday. The federal US might want to consider going along with it as California could make it as a nation unto itself and things are on kind of shakey grounds here lately. This division could keep Old California from being viable if a time for secession ever came. Having been born in Ventura County California my birthright claim to citizenship would be with the old California, the "librul" one and that suits me fine.

The year 1850 should have read, "the 1850's" so I edited that as intended. I can well imagine there were second thoughts about it since its inception.

This wont fly due to this new proposal lumping in the san joaquin valley. The farming community wants nothing to do with the coastal liberals. But they included us in this latest attempt so they would get the big agricultural dollars.

This organization (doesnt seem to organized) has been tryin this since 2007 i think.

Downsize Cali

But they want the 12 coastal counties to be its own and the rest break off from that. I agree with them.

News on them from 2009... 2009 Article

Here is a link to the other thread on the same topic from 7-1-11. Other Thread

My .02¢

Silver

Originally posted by jibeho
I can't read this thread without thinking of this oldie but goodie from the 80's


I think California has more to worry about when you consider the big 51st state just to their south and its impact on their state budget.

edit on 12-7-2011 by jibeho because: (no reason given)

Great song, not sure how I missed it then. I think in the 80's I was still waking up from the 60's and 70's.

The 31 states to the south do have an impact on California, sort of a double-edged sword. California has a lot of crops that need harvesting and not many natural residents that want to do it. I worked in agriculture for several years, a place and position of my choosing.

Many of the people I grew up with tried working the harvests to earn a little money, and they did, very little. It was a job almost anyone could get but very few of my "gringo" friends wanted to keep doing for very long. For one, they couldn't keep up with the seasoned Mexican harvesters who could actually make decent money doing it. The other factor was the hard work, few returned to the fields after the first day. They claimed to be too sore to get up for work. "Lazy" is a false stereotype, believe me.

Harvesting is a bit easier along the coastal agricultural areas with the almost perfect weather year-around. These California secessionists will want to take a large chunk of the inland valley agricultural areas along with the border counties. We'll see how long their conservative immigrations values last before they start to become very "liberal" about who they want to let com in to do the hard work for them. In this poor economy there still are jobs to be had, just not enough people that want to do them.

Funny how they had no problem with California when the economy was great, and California drove the tech boom.
SoCal would be very stupid to do this and would end up in a much worse position then they are already in. Since a state can only be legislated by Congress, they can expect funding to stop, and they would have to fix their own roads and provide their own army.
BTW, the 51st state would be Washington DC, which has been trying to become a 51st state for some time now. The residents of Washington DC are taxed without representation.

reply to post by Pervius


What my island needs is a wake up call. Lazy people. One of the reason I moved out was because of the ignorance.