Age of the Sphinx, A glaring issue about it's age!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Maybe its a different kind of wear? Like it was bronzed or something along those lines at a time and that evidence is stolen/stored away?

I'm sure the OP is aware of Robert Schoch and his work on the dating of the age of the Sphinx since as I understand it, it was his work in the first place, that brought this issue to light.

www.robertschoch.com...

www.robertschoch.net...

I don't take the OP as someone who gets most of his information from documentary videos but this is the only place I can come up with as to where the question arises from. Im pretty sure it has been theorized that the walls of the sphinx enclosure (the original one) were chiseled down when the blocks of the temple where put in place. I know that there are several times on written record of pharaohs ordering repairs to the sphinx. I don't personally know (from reading the actual texts) but as far as Im aware there are written sphinx repair orders every few hundred years through out the entire written record of Egypt that we have.

Where I think the question arises is that there are several structures in Egypt that are built using MUCH larger blocks than the average structures. The sphinx temple is one of these that certain people point to claiming were not Egyptian in origin but of an earlier culture and they point to the question of the age of the sphinx as proof without realizing your initial point of erosion comparisons.

As is discussed in the text of VOICES, I have come out strongly in favor of not only an older Sphinx, but also a contemporaneous (thus older) Sphinx temple (at least the limestone core being older than the Fourth Dynasty). Independently of Reader, John Anthony West and I have also concluded that part of "Khafre's" mortuary temple predates Khafre, but I had not published this conclusion or spoken of it at length in public since I wanted to collect more corroborative evidence first. Reader has now come to the same conclusion concerning "Khafre's" mortuary temple. I am pleased to see his confirmation. I believe that there was much more human activity at Giza in pre-Old Kingdom times than has previously been recognized. I even suspect that the second, or "Khafre Pyramid," may actually sit on top of an older site or structure. According to the Egyptologists John Baines and Jaromír Málek (ATLAS OF ANCIENT EGYPT, 1980, New York: Facts on File, page 140) the Khafre Pyramid in ancient times was referred to as "The Great Pyramid" while the Khufu Pyramid (referred to in modern times as "The Great Pyramid") was known in antiquity as "The Pyramid which is the Place of Sunrise and Sunset." Does the ancient designation of "The Great Pyramid" for the "Khafre Pyramid" indicate that the site, if not the pyramid itself, was of supreme importance and pre-dated many other developments and structures on the Giza Plateau?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Like the post, you never fail to make the mental gears turn. I'm going to sidestep the whole Hall of Records theory in this and say that if the sphinx were actually that old, it is a record in itself, and would be among the very few wonders of the pre-ancient(or archaic) world that we have still around. Considering the erosion and probable re-carving of it by Khafre, it may well have had something written on it, but time and the elements, not to mention the 'human factor' have lost them, if they even existed to begin with. Really bothers me how much we don't know that we don't know about the ancient past.

Didnt read all comments but lets assume the head of the Sphinx got restored at some time you (which had as much erosion as the body) you end up with a smaller head when using the existing stone only. No new head, just recarved/restored but this is kinda obivious and probaly old news

I think it's simply the case of the lower temple portion of the sphinx shows traditional signs of partial erosion while the head has been recarved and refinished and what-have-you...I don't think the sphinx head we see today was the same sphinx head of 4000+ years ago...Even Dr. Hawass himself has stated that the sphinx has been preserved over the centuries with additions because the original limestone tends to flake off as salts come out of the stone....so the question that the head has been modified isn't even a question...it's fact at this point....but what exactly it was originally is completely questionable....

With as many theories as there are speculating on purpose, culture, and original state, it's hard to even think about logically at this point...Any which way you turn you seem to be face-to-face with a contradiction....

With all that said, with me being the logical analyst that I tend to be....I presume that the head was much bigger than is now, built by a skilled rock-art society moving out of the Saharan, somewhere within the age of Leo(thinking probably 10500-10000BC, seeing as how the Nile Valley was supposedly uninhabitable beginning around 10000BC due to glacial runoffs)

And for fun, I also think the hall of records which Edgar Cayce prophecied about are INSIDE the sphinx head.....Who knows...fun to think about

A2D
Great thread, S&F

Khufu:




Khufu - Sphinx:



Notice the prominently jutting lower, squarish jaw. Khufu is considered the face on which the Sphinx is modeled.

Now Djedefre and Khafre (Both Khufu's sons);




Notice the headgear (menes) of the Sphinx stylistically is nearly identical to their reigns. This specific style was adopted only for Djedefre and Khafre's reigns, although the Sphinx's shows some sign of having originally been carved in a style used during Khufu's reign and then recarved by Khafre in his style.



Visually the Sphinx is matched to the Fourth Dynasty, it was started by Khufu but finished by Khafre. Khafre was, according to some scholars, attempting to start a "Sphinx cult", which is what the Sphinx temple and enclosure was about, but it died out along with him (he wouldn't be the first Pharaoh to attempt to take Egyptian religion off on some tangent, and like previous attempts those efforts died along side their Pharaohs)

At any rate, this Web page contains many of the finer points linking the Sphinx to Khafre; just some of those pints are:

1. Geological fingerprints - geological layers match between the Sphinx, temple and quarry, offer positive evidence all are one and the same.

2. The "unworshipped cult" - the aforementioned "Sphinx cult" that never took off.

3. Architectural similarity - similarities between Khafre’s Pyramid Temple exist with that of his Sphinx Temple, including plinth bases for massive Sphinx votive statues that ultimately were never placed (one could argue that the Sphinx itself sitting outside the temple was the ultimate votive statue).

4. The Sphinx quarry - "the lower parts of the Sphinx (and its enclosure or sanctuary) were carved later than Khafre’s pyramid, Pyramid Temple, causeway, and Valley Temple." (source cited above)

5. The temple terrace - "Khafre’s Valley Temple and the Sphinx Temple are nearly aligned and they sit on the same prepared terrace below the Sphinx." (source cited above)

6. The causeway drainage channel - the channel predates the Sphinx enclosure, and was 'rendered obsolete' by the enclosure's construction. It is also a testament to water drainage and site runoff issues present on the plateau.

The source above summarizes the archeological evidence for Khafre’s builders as:

• Completed Khafre’s Valley Temple with its granite casing.
  
• Built a northern enclosure wall for the Valley Temple that clearly respects the Temple’s granite casing.
  
• Built the Sphinx Temple, incorporating the northern Valley Temple enclosure wall.
  
• Built the Sphinx Temple with blocks geologically linked to the Sphinx quarry.
  
• Abandoned work on the Sphinx Temple and Sphinx quarry shortly before either were completed, indicating they were the last elements to be added to the project.

Finally, it wouldn't matter what previous generation had done to the living rock monument that Khufu-Khafre turned into the Sphinx, since all previous work/carvings would have been eradicated at that point.

Catchpenny also has a page on "Sphinx erosion" debates here.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Nicely written and thanks for posting the additional information.