How do you decide who survives?

My mother was sitting in my room when I happened to be viewing a You Tube video describing the possible impact on the contiguous United States if there is an earthquake in the New Madrid fault. It displayed a map that showed a large portion of the east coast and almost all of Florida under water. Though the map was a bit disturbing, my first thought was that the map showed the United States divided into two halves. In all the talk that has been bantered about, I am willing to bet you that when people speak of a division in our country that they never thought of it literally.

I have heard rumors of China buying up large portions of our country and rumors of China taking portions of our country as payment on our delinquent and exorbitant debt. I never gave much credibility to these rumors, only because I felt in my heart of hearts, that the majority of Americans would never stand for a mass eviction of American citizens to relinquish American land to China. After seeing that map, I fear that it would not be that difficult for China to take possession of a large portion of America without having to fire a single shot.

In the aftermath of a catastrophic event, I doubt if Americans will have any interest in the preservation of a contiguous United States. Their primary interest will be survival and reuniting with any surviving family and loved ones. I did not think that my mother was paying much attention to the video; she was sitting in my rocker and crocheting a baby blanket for one of her great grandchildren, so I was knocked off my feet when she said, “I am too old to make it out of here if something really bad happens, so promise me you will save yourself and not try to save me, because I will just be an extra burden and I have already lived my life anyway.”

The thought never crossed my mind and of course I would never leave her behind, if I don’t make it with her than we will leave this earth together. This video that had absolutely nothing to do with anything that I write here really got the old wheels to turning in my mind.

Have any of you thought about the uncomfortable decisions that we may have to make post cataclysm? How would you ration your food supplies and water? Would the women and children get the greater portions or the individuals that were doing the most work? Would you give extra to the sick or give them less or none at all?

I read frequently of the plans that many have made for survival and most of us think that we have all the bases covered; I just realized that there are a lot of decisions and choices that I may have to make that were not even on the table. I am sharing with you in hopes that through your posts I will discover other gaps that may be in my survival scenario.

I know that I talk about two different things here but I think that a cataclysm with the United States intact or a United States broken into two halves with or without China in the mix will play out almost the same. The goal will be to make it through one day at a time until there is some order and stability in our present. Until that happens we will have little interest in our future.

When it comes to caloric intake, the people doing the work need the calories or else your most able bodied are just destroying themselves. That actually reduces the groups chance of survival. As for the sick, that honestly depends on their perceived recovery chances. Let's be totally honest here. The obese, the chronically ill, and the decrepit are likely to die very early on anyway. For example, a type one diabetic. They have what 45-90 days without insulin at best? If you are a diabetic, you should have a sheep ranch and learn the old way of making insulin from a sheep's pancreas.

This is my plan. But ultimately the decision probably will not be made until the last minute, because I do not know what it is I will have to deal with until after it happens.

IF something should happen and does not require me and my family to relocate to another area my first plan is to get all family members together and all move into one house and work together as I am the one with the majority of the supplies, but mainly for me and my kids, but I will adapt and share.

Should the best decision be to leave the area, then I will make the offer to the rest of my family to come with us. If they decide to stay, then I will be forced to leave them behind for the sake of my kids.

If the Chinese try to repossess parts or all of the US, I will be damned if I take orders from them. I will not even tie my shoe if they tell me too. I am packing up for war, I am an American and will not, repeat, will not listen to the Chinese if they think they can repossess me.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'd risk it all. Better to lose my life than my humanity.

I Did not sale my land to the chinese. If they try to take it from me they will pay in blood.As far as triage goes i think it depends on the shtf scenario. Like other my options include bugging out but with my Sister near by This will be difficult. It would almost be better to Chance it then actually bugging out. One of her children 17yr old is prone to outbursts when not on his medicine. Even on medicine he has the mind power of a 2 year old. Might be best for him to have an "accident" while out scavenging.
Some may think this is callous of me. In a Shtf scenario he is more likely to get us all killed then assist us. He is not sexually active but is very curious. He has been taught to respect women and while he is on his medicine he is easy enough to keep in line. Without it he goes out of his way to pester his younger brothers cuss out his mother etc. If not for threatening to send him to the hostpital he would be out of control. In any scenario where there would be no repercussions for his actions. He would be a rogue boar. To dangerous to keep around to dangerous to let go. But my sister would never see it that way so an "Accident" would have to occur.
Both my parents have recently passed so other then Him I have no elders to worry over. I think it would have to be based on what illness or what pain they are in. If it is viable I would waste a little extra resources to keep them safe. If they are in pain with know way to relieve the pain they would have to be put down. Looking at what I have written I am astonished at how evil it sounds.I would guess If it means the survival of the group vs not i would have to be the evil man I sound like. Sometime regardless of the choices made both are wrong. You just have to choose the lesser of the two evils. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one holding the group back because of senality or an injury which could not be fixed. Then either put me down or give me a knife and tell me to leave.
Therian

reply to post by Therian


I know how hard it had to be to write your reply. You are absolutely right that some decisions made will feel wrong even when you feel that they are right. A person of sound mind, physically sound and strong, would often seem to be the wisest choice to save for the good of the group, but an elderly frail man or woman may be the only one in the group wise enough to keep everyone alive and functioning.

Not many including me, knows how to make it with nothing, but my mother has done it before and she remembers more than I have even begun to learn. My mother also has a very rare gift. It has no price tag but her gift of “common” sense is priceless.

reply to post by Skewed


I grew up in a very large family. There were ten children and four adults in my home. It is amazing how far a few items thrown in a pot or bowl can stretch to feed a group of hungry mouths.

I hope that we will be old and long forgotten before anything happens to our beautiful planet but if it comes sooner than later, then I am glad my Mom taught me how to make stone soup.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


I think quite a few diabetics may see an improvement in their condition. Many diabetics have elevated blood sugars due to a diet high in calories and too much junk food. Since caloric intake will be drastically reduced and sweets will be at a premium, they actually may be able to better manage their diabetes.

This will not be true for all diabetics but the diabetics that can control their diabetes by controlling what they eat yet are unable to because of weak will power, they may do well when food is severely restricted.

Keep in mind, though, no one who has not been faced with this type of situation knows what they will do. It all very likely depends on so many things that you will be experiencing. I am "past my prime", and probably not in the best physical shape I could be. I would like to think that I would do the noble thing, and "force" my children, all young, single, and without children, to leave me behind and save themselves. But, I also realize that I have a strong desire to live and see this scenario played out. Nature takes care of itself, and I am a part of nature. I don't, of course, wish to be a burden to my family, but I am certain that I could not conceive of leaving a single one of them behind, due to a physical impairment. Consequently, I'd have to take shelter close by.

However, I see the point in self sacrifice for the good of the group..but who makes that decision? At what point do we become barbarians? It is interesting to think about, though. What you would do, compared with what you want to do.

Do as nature intended: strongest will survive. I would decide that the insane, criminals, elderly, disabled, stupid and fugly people don't get to survive.

Focus on the ones who are not in those groups. Be honest with the ones who are and let em know your plans. They already know they are not in and often will chip in to help with care of those who are.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

I believe(but do not know for a fact) that that is only true for type 2 diabetes, not type 1 diabetes. Medical professionals feel free to correct me if I am in error.

reply to post by jdb51


most posters seem to look at surviving on an individual or family basis.

when looking at past historical disasters, geological, political, meteorological, some communities pull together and survive.

if you and your family reach an area where society is still functional, they probably would have some form of triage for refugees.

drug addicts would probably be the worst off, not wanting to waste the shortage of drugs, their shelter would look like hell on Earth.
Puerto Rico alone has 200,000 heroin addicts.
and your area may not be much better, the infestation is everywhere.

the elderly requiring oxygen and huge medication would be soon dead,no supplies,reality.

not contaminated children(radioactivity), would be treated best, since no society will recover for long if they don't take care of the next generation.

electricians, plumbers, construction workers, firemen, police, nurses, doctors, farmers,very valuable, already trained, useful individuals would do well.

a corporate lawyer, good golfer, etc, would be lucky if they are considered for low level labor crews scavenging the ruins.

as much as i love animals, i realize that feeding surviving humans could mean farming animals for food.
today we are all free to make our own choices, we would have to adapt to new "communal" realities.

the only thing we can do now is prepare, be responsible as an individual, and if you can, be part of your local civil defense.

From a Disaster 1st responder:
"All those who can hear the sound of my voice... towards me"...the others? Out of luck. We cant stop to save everyone handicapped, old or severely injured. We are trained to save the most.

If I go into a room and there are 3 injured, one walks to me, the one with the wall on them is gonna have to wait, and the other bleeding profusely is going to get some immediate help. And we cant jeopardize ourselves getting hurt and disabled and many more not saved because of it.

Its how we train and just the way it is. We dont have enough responders to save or even help everyone..we have to move on for the greater good. But we WILL try to help all we can.

Please help us: Volunteer at your local community CERT Teams or Citizens Corps or Presidents Call to Action. Training is free and we all could use you!

Thanks

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Look... As a Dad and grandfather I can tell ya I have always taken care of my family first... even if that means I go without food, sleep, or new clothes... that's what it means to be a dad... we make sacrifices so that they may have better lives then we did...

As for who who survives.... Family and friends... as long as they contribute to the good of the whole... anyone else will be shown the road to elsewhere...

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


As a parent we obviously are going to want to make sure our children get out alive and they will be our priority. As for those without children....you grab who you can that is able enough to run with you.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


"I have heard rumors of China buying up large portions of our country and rumors of China taking portions of our country as payment on our delinquent and exorbitant debt. I never gave much credibility to these rumors, only because I felt in my heart of hearts, that the majority of Americans would never stand for a mass eviction of American citizens to relinquish American land to China. After seeing that map, I fear that it would not be that difficult for China to take possession of a large portion of America without having to fire a single shot."


No country is coming to "gobble up" land in America in exchange for non payment of debt.

Fear mongering at its best.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
From a Disaster 1st responder:
"All those who can hear the sound of my voice... towards me"...the others? Out of luck. We cant stop to save everyone handicapped, old or severely injured. We are trained to save the most.

If I go into a room and there are 3 injured, one walks to me, the one with the wall on them is gonna have to wait, and the other bleeding profusely is going to get some immediate help. And we cant jeopardize ourselves getting hurt and disabled and many more not saved because of it.

Its how we train and just the way it is. We dont have enough responders to save or even help everyone..we have to move on for the greater good. But we WILL try to help all we can.

Please help us: Volunteer at your local community CERT Teams or Citizens Corps or Presidents Call to Action. Training is free and we all could use you!

Is it free? or is it "free". The reason I ask is simple. When you become a doctor for example, if you drive past someone who is injured as a result of a wreck you are expected(if not required) to stop and render aid. I am sure this also applies to off duty police/firs/ems(correct me if I am wrong). So, what do I "give up" by doing this? In a SHTF situation, I don't want any "agency" thinking that they can "call me up" when I need to concentrate on getting my family/friends out of the area.

reply to post by DaddyBare

Absolutely agree. Luckily, at 10 years old, my kids are big enough to contribute anyway. But, yes, you do take care of family/friends first. My original response was in relation to "others".

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
From a Disaster 1st responder:
"All those who can hear the sound of my voice... towards me"...the others? Out of luck. We cant stop to save everyone handicapped, old or severely injured. We are trained to save the most.

Please help us: Volunteer at your local community CERT Teams or Citizens Corps or Presidents Call to Action. Training is free and we all could use you!

Thanks

edit on 06-10-2010 by mysterioustranger because: !

edit on 06-10-2010 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

edit on 06-10-2010 by mysterioustranger because: grammar

i'm on a DART team.
they loan us out when the animals don't need us.

recently went to help red cross in a tornado incident.

first aid for animals trainning is something that could help anyone with pets.

thank you and yes we need more responsible people.