Working concept against global financial/ social decline

There is actually a working alternative concept for our global economic, political and social negative develpments. Perhaps this sounds a bit strange but this this deadly devolpment can be stopped. In the end it´s not about money but souveranity of the people.

The thing that works is named threefolding, you can read a description here:
www.threefolding.org...
or
www.threefolding.net...

It about a concept that was done in the 1920ies in germany by Rudolf Steiner, many development have been done since.
take time to read this. At least when you are seriously interested.

What is social threefolding? The threefolding aims to achieve constitutional reorganization of society and an accurate allocation of social phenomena, without having to create any party programs. The concrete political organization is kept open: It will have to be redefined for each moment of global historical development.

A healthy social order implies a differentiation of society into the fields of cultural sphere (culture and education), economic sphere and rights sphere .

These three divisions of the community are autonomous, and will thereby influence one another positively and organically with their results. In this sense the rights sphere - also called the State - may not intervene into the autonomy of the cultural sphere and for instance pursue school politics. Only if the areas are autonomous and not mixed, they can develop themselves on their own terms and bring out their own ideals:

Liberty in the cultural sphere, equality in the rights sphere and fraternity in the economic sphere. Only the differentiation makes the ideals of mankind alive: Mixed they waive themselves mutually, and another allocation of the ideals would work destructively: Equality in the cultural sphere kills all innovations, liberty in regard oo law cancels all laws.

The free cultural sphere builds up the abilities and skills that mankind needs for its idealistic and material existence and development. Skills can only emerge in the cultural sphere. Everything that is connected with abilities and skills, belongs into the range of the cultural sphere:
Business managers with a real, and not only on an economic power based ability for management belong to the cultural sphere alongside with teachers and artists. Furthermore all kinds of capital or credit systems are in the long run dealing with the question where to allocate abilities for the purpose to create an economic process. Capital ( not money!) is a matter of the cultural sphere. Therefore the capital should be controlled by the cultural sphere and the capital be freely left up to capable entrepreneurs until their retirement or death. Thereafter the capital arrives to a new capable entrepreneur by donation because capital cannot be inherited because it is linked to ability. Likewise judging other humans is an ability, only the personalities of the free cultural sphere fully possess.

For this reason the jurisdiction is to be taken out of the rights sphere. The accused himself should be able to pick out a judge from the cultural sphere, which he regards as the ablest one. This guarantees quality in the judiciary, instead og a jurisprudence detached from reality.
All thoughts are free, and therefore copyrights are an arrogance and in fact a mental theft itself. Humans should be mentally free and therefore a forced association into groups with an implied group-conditioned binding to language and values is to be rejected. In this sense: each human being is a minority of one. A free cultural sphere must be an autonomous area, where a free and tolerant cooperation within the cultural sphere is made possible through corporations.

- The economic sphere is made up of goods production, goods circulation and goods consumption ONLY. Human needs are satisfied in the economic sphere. The needs are assessed plumbed by associations in a three fold community and here an appropiate adjustment of market and price will be made. The currency belongs to the economic sphere as well. Without means of production, nothing is left to exchange.

Therefore, money must come into existence where means of production are working, that is decentral in every single firm, and will have to disappear if these no longer produce. Only an ageing money such as this can avoid inflation. In the rights sphere all individuals are equal before the law, and here everyone faces other citizens on equal terms. Here everything manifest itself democratically, which depends on the judgement and the feeling of mature person.

-The state is however no superstructure of civil society, but only a link alongside with the cultural sphere and the economic sphere. With the democratization of the state, the guardianship of the super-state should have already crumbled and left a society with autonomous spheres like the cultural and economic one. There is however no evidence of this, and therefore the most urgent task consists of imposing boundaries on the institutionalized monopoly of force in the name of liberty and fraternity, and to repel the dictatorship of cultural and economic regimentation.

Therefore the threefolding does not aim for political power to change social conditions, but counts on the free acknowledge of mankind and on the economic and ecological necessity of our globalized world.

greets

Sorry my eyes can't handle block text like that.

second

so, you can read it on the original site without prob.

cheers

Aside from the block style, that was the best text, linguistically, that I have seen here on the internet in long time. Star and Flag just for that.

It sounds like it would work to me, except for the fact that money is kept in the mix. What I took out of the article was that the ideals of society as a whole, all 3 facets, would have to change. But if you still have money, even the the best of intentions will not work. It doesn't even have to be at the top of the priority list either. Even if it's way down on the bottom serving only as a necessity only, it will eventually change and corrupt everything.

You say that creative and productive ideas should be free and that copyrights are a bastardization of that thought process, and just another form of theft. Creative and productive actions should be held to that same standard in that monetary compensation should be banned from taking place in that arena. Why should I get paid for making a car if that car is.....a) An idea of someone's that there is no copyright to, and....b) If I could very well be the person who ends up driving that same car that I am going to have to pay for?

Replace the word "car" with anything else and the same logic applies.

I think it was Leonard Cohen who wrote a song called "Money Changes Everything." No truer words have ever been written IMO. I'm of the belief that this world and the people on it would get on just fine without money.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
Aside from the block style, that was the best text, linguistically, that I have seen here on the internet in long time. Star and Flag just for that.

It sounds like it would work to me, except for the fact that money is kept in the mix. What I took out of the article was that the ideals of society as a whole, all 3 facets, would have to change. But if you still have money, even the the best of intentions will not work. It doesn't even have to be at the top of the priority list either. Even if it's way down on the bottom serving only as a necessity only, it will eventually change and corrupt everything.

You say that creative and productive ideas should be free and that copyrights are a bastardization of that thought process, and just another form of theft. Creative and productive actions should be held to that same standard in that monetary compensation should be banned from taking place in that arena. Why should I get paid for making a car if that car is.....a) An idea of someone's that there is no copyright to, and....b) If I could very well be the person who ends up driving that same car that I am going to have to pay for?

Replace the word "car" with anything else and the same logic applies.

I think it was Leonard Cohen who wrote a song called "Money Changes Everything." No truer words have ever been written IMO. I'm of the belief that this world and the people on it would get on just fine without money.

edit on 7-7-2011 by Taupin Desciple because: (no reason given)

the thing is , it IS ACTUALLY three-folded ! Just because the bankers/polititians/media/ NWO totally screwed up our consciousness/ reception about it. The main thing is, ANY nation works that way, but we dont see it, completely independent from any religion btw.

three segments, spheres:
- social sphere ( education, science, schools, universities, religios groups etc ) - rights sphere - economic sphere

money:
the main thing is to completely separate capital from money. Capital means human skills, which belongs only to the social sphere. ( note: NOT meant socialistic! completely wrong)

reply to post by anti72


So why do we need money? If skills and ideas can be used and traded for the betterment of society, I don't see the need. It's nothing more than redundancy in action IMO.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by anti72

 

So why do we need money? If skills and ideas can be used and traded for the betterment of society, I don't see the need. It's nothing more than redundancy in action IMO.

1. Capital is not money. We have to SEE this. Only if we allow bankers/ polititians to handle it the wrong way, as NOW, it gets fu***d up..
2. Money is always needed for any coorporation to pay our loans and their own credits from banks.
money, PER SE is JUST AN LEGAL DOCUMENT.

SO, THIS kind of banks have to be set up as
- not maximum profit orientated, but human recourses orientated.

think of Greece. I bet in 2 years they will be kicked out of the european community. For reasons of completely wrong decisions of corrupt, manipulated system of international banking .
And this is just the beginning..

Kudos for thinking about this stuff for if society is to improve in needs a better plan. The first problem that hit me was that this does fall into the Bilderberg plan to take financial policy control away from the governments and put it with the banks. A new social model does need to account for the failings of man and greed is a big problem in today's society. I do see some recourse to try and address this with a separation of powers (culture, law, money) but I do not see it go far enough or well defined enough to be practical.

I am not sure how you separate capital from money as they are all assets. It is the full collection of assets that defines the economy and it is the economies job to distribute these assets.

The bit about the accused getting to select their own judge can be really problematic, especially in today's corrupt society. A better system of justice is for all the stakeholders and associated processionals to sit around in a circle and get to the heart of the matter. No more non disclosure, limited liability, legal loopholes or court room tricks.

Some good points where made in the document, but for a better framework that focuses on sustainability the core topics are: culture, law and land. I got this from an Aboriginal friend that went to law school and put together the best from his heritage and current society.

Culture - Everywhere is different with no two places exactly the same. This diversity can be expressed in many different ways but it is an inherent part of nature.

Law - There is always some form of law in operation: physics, biology, sociology, industry and many others. Respect it or pay the price.

Land - It is the land that sustains us. If we do not learn how to live with it, we wont.

Originally posted by kwakakev
Kudos for thinking about this stuff for if society is to improve in needs a better plan. The first problem that hit me was that this does fall into the Bilderberg plan to take financial policy control away from the governments and put it with the banks. A new social model does need to account for the failings of man and greed is a big problem in today's society. I do see some recourse to try and address this with a separation of powers (culture, law, money) but I do not see it go far enough or well defined enough to be practical.

well the bilderbergers plan aims to completely different directions, we know that. Also, they USE this out-of-date, wrong banking terms for their own porpose.
Failings of man are completely NOT adressed in their way also, as u mention. Instead they make up terms like ´bad banks´ to go on with ther BS.
there has to be a new all over concept which can only be done with the society as a whole. Threefolding is by far the only one I know, that adresses that in a human way.

I am not sure how you separate capital from money as they are all assets. It is the full collection of assets that defines the economy and it is the economies job to distribute these assets.

the thing here is, it HAS to be devided. We learned from history, just think of socialistic system, which collapsed of economic reasons.

Some good points where made in the document, but for a better framework that focuses on sustainability the core topics are: culture, law and land. I got this from an Aboriginal friend that went to law school and put together the best from his heritage and current society.
Culture - Everywhere is different with no two places exactly the same. This diversity can be expressed in many different ways but it is an inherent part of nature.
Law - There is always some form of law in operation: physics, biology, sociology, industry and many others. Respect it or pay the price.
Land - It is the land that sustains us. If we do not learn how to live with it, we wont.

some good points, main thought, land cant be bought and belongs to nobody as all people are dependent on its dignity and health.

The concept adresses the society as a whole, also we a cant repeat wrong decisions on and on. Even less when we see what direction is ´offered´ us instead for the future. so it has to be done thoughtful and RIGHT.
For some ears this sounds idealistic but it is in fact RIGHT.

good reader:
www.globenet3.org...

Threefolding or Global Governance?
www.threefolding.net...

reply to post by anti72

there has to be a new all over concept which can only be done with the society as a whole. Threefolding is by far the only one I know, that adresses that in a human way.

When getting back to the drawing board to sort this mess out it is good to start with a clean slate. A lot of the implications are in the detail and a strong foundation of priorities does aid in the decision making process.

the thing here is, it HAS to be devided.

The main difference I see between capital and money is that capital is any asset that can be used for a transaction, while money is a specific asset that has wide acceptance in the community.

land cant be bought and belongs to nobody as all people are dependent on its dignity and health.

As a core concept of the threefold framework, do you prefer a healthy bank account or a healthy environment? In the concept you have provided I do consider money as a function of law as it manages the supply and demand of resources throughout the community. To achieve this it needs specific rules so everyone can work with it in a common way.

reply to post by kwakakev


as said, social threefolding is already working, but it does not get big media.
You know perhaps the Waldorf schools, these are non-state, free schools, developed after WWI by Rudolf Steiner. There is also a german non-profit-orientated bank called GLS which did get several prizes.
www.gls.de...
´best german bank of the year 2010´, ´Portfolio Institutionell Award 2009´, ´Future Award 2009´
´The New Economy´: ´Most Sustainable Bank, Germany ´



´´The main difference I see between capital and money is that capital is any asset that can be used for a transaction, while money is a specific asset that has wide acceptance in the community. ´´

Yes. as a fact money terms today are outdated. At a certain point of money streams its value doesnt die as it should. Too, human labour must not be bought but is handeled in the spiritual/cultural shere only, on a democratic base. ( sounds a bit ´socialistic´, but in fact obviously not at all)

´´As a core concept of the threefold framework, do you prefer a healthy bank account or a healthy environment? In the concept you have provided I do consider money as a function of law as it manages the supply and demand of resources throughout the community. To achieve this it needs specific rules so everyone can work with it in a common way. ´´

- Of course you cant devide men from environment.

- Therefore, money must come into existence where means of production are working, that is decentral in every single firm, and will have to disappear if these no longer produce.
Only an ageing money such as this can avoid inflation.

In the rights sphere all individuals are equal before the law, and here everyone faces other citizens on equal terms. Here everything manifest itself democratically, which depends on the judgement and the feeling of mature person.



The 3 spheres are some kind of analogue to basic human body functions, which work autonomously together, but must understood seperately in their different working functions.

A pic that shows how the three segments work together. The parts overlapping mean that each segment has associations again. For example the economic sphere has its own associations of cultural and rights.
Or a school, it has economics and rights sphere as well.

reply to post by anti72


You asked for comments so that is what you are getting. It is interesting to hear that the German banking industry is using this model and does help provide some context to it. A lot of these conceptual maps do have a strength with their simplicity, but that is also a weakness as complexity grows. The fire triangle of heat, fuel and oxygen is one that works well along with electricity components of volts, amps and resistance. When dealing with the more complex nature of man, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the best I have seen so far. When it comes to a sociological organisation, it is tricky.

as a fact money terms today are outdated. At a certain point of money streams its value doesnt die as it should. Too, human labour must not be bought but is handeled in the spiritual/cultural shere only, on a democratic base. ( sounds a bit ´socialistic´, but in fact obviously not at all)

The global economy has gone through a lot of growth and diversity lately and could do with a good pruning to get rid of the dead wood. I do acknowledge that parts of it are inappropriate, but as for outdated I am not sure what you mean? The basic foundation to allow a farmer and a shepard exchange resources appears solid, but there it a lot more to it.

I would look to hoarding as the reason why value still remains in currency as increased money supply does not directly relate to inflation. It is the amount of cash flow through society that determines when value dies. While the hordes hold their bounty the status quo is maintained, if they where to all release their holdings at the same time then inflation will catch up and the value die.

I am open to these ideas about the distribution of labour. This is a tough one with a lot of cultural conflict and power structures currently at play. I do believe in the basic principle of self determination and support any endeavours that aim to achieve this.

money must come into existence where means of production are working, that is decentral in every single firm, and will have to disappear if these no longer produce. Only an ageing money such as this can avoid inflation.

Indigenous cultures never had a need for money, there was some capacity for production and social groups where small by today's standards. Community contribution was able to be kept in check within the social order. As towns grew and specialization of roles took place a better system to manage the communities contribution was required, so money popped up. Basically money is about a self regulation ledger book of who does and needs what. Money is a measure of the communities supply and demand. This self regulation part has been taken advantaged of over the years though.

I am not sure what you mean by an ageing money avoiding inflation? Inflation or deflation is a direct result of how much money is in the system. If there is more money the numbers or value people use to trade go up, if there is less money the numbers go down. The forces of supply and demand are generally fairly consistent, it comes down to just how much money is in the system to facilitate this trade to determine inflation or deflation.

Financial policy is the main tool to manage this with how much new money enters the system or how much old money is taken out. Zimbabwe is one classic example of hyperinflation due to the government trying to expand its wealth by printing more money. In the short term the government had more money to spend, but as this new money entered the economy and the supply of money went up, so did all the prices and value of the goods. For the overall wealth of the nation there was a decline due to the sudden influx of money and the chaos this caused.

Money is like a ruler as it is a common measure for social worth. Governments, banks, industry and society all play a part in how this ruler is gauged.

In the rights sphere all individuals are equal before the law, and here everyone faces other citizens on equal terms. Here everything manifest itself democratically, which depends on the judgement and the feeling of mature person.

I do agree that more can be done here. One challenge is with the diversity of the legal system. A head of state, member of the CIA or general member of the public are not equal before the judicial system. I do not know anyone who says the legal system is perfect, it moves slow and has a long, complex history. Any steps to improve and get to the heart of conflict resolution are good.

Indigenous cultures never had a need for money, there was some capacity for production and social groups where small by today's standards. Community contribution was able to be kept in check within the social order. As towns grew and specialization of roles took place a better system to manage the communities contribution was required, so money popped up. Basically money is about a self regulation ledger book of who does and needs what. Money is a measure of the communities supply and demand. This self regulation part has been taken advantaged of over the years though.

right, as long as we used exchange currency (goods) in old times, this worked. In todays multi-national/ coorporation society this wont work of course. Or a regional/ alternative currency.

I am not sure what you mean by an ageing money avoiding inflation? Inflation or deflation is a direct result of how much money is in the system. If there is more money the numbers or value people use to trade go up, if there is less money the numbers go down. The forces of supply and demand are generally fairly consistent, it comes down to just how much money is in the system to facilitate this trade to determine inflation or deflation.

this describes the current, wrong state, yes. Moneys´ worth has to die at a certain point, where a company pays back its depths to the bank, basically.

In the rights sphere all individuals are equal before the law, and here everyone faces other citizens on equal terms. Here everything manifest itself democratically, which depends on the judgement and the feeling of mature person.
I do agree that more can be done here. One challenge is with the diversity of the legal system. A head of state, member of the CIA or general member of the public are not equal before the judicial system. I do not know anyone who says the legal system is perfect, it moves slow and has a long, complex history. Any steps to improve and get to the heart of conflict resolution are good.

edit on 9-7-2011 by kwakakev because: changed 'it' to 'value'

right, and as we dont know what forces are really behind of the CIA and other intelligence, just think of all the war conflicts that have been prepared by them..( for nearly 200 years?). And the drug dealing.


But before we can go into details of currency/ specific money issues it is important to get the nature of social threefolding idea. It is a movement that is orientated on the human form, also, in short, tries to get the bull at its horns. Another good expression: capitalism has to be thought to its end.
Direct democracy through plebiscite another part of it.





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