Archie Comics, George Orwell and '1984'.

Not knowing where to post this one, I decided on General Conspiracies as it is indeed general and Orwell was all about the conspiracies.

First of all, I grew up on Archie, Batman, Superman and many others as probably a lot of us have. I sometimes pick one up and glance through it at the grocery store stand as many of us do.

What struck me a few weeks ago was a little strange tho. For those of you not familiar with Archie Comics, please excuse me but you'll get the idea in the thread.

So for the not-in-the-know folks:
en.wikipedia.org...

Archie Comics is an American comic book publisher headquartered in the Village of Mamaroneck, Town of Mamaroneck, New York,[1][2] known for its many series featuring the fictional teenagers Archie Andrews, Betty Cooper, Veronica Lodge, Reggie Mantle and Jughead Jones. The characters were created by publisher/editor John L. Goldwater, written by Vic Bloom and drawn by Bob Montana. They were based in part on people met by Goldwater "in the Midwest" during his travels throughout the United States while looking for jobs and places to stay. Archie's first appearance in Pep Comics #22 on December 22, 1941

Archie Characters and Comics are in fact so popular and recognizable that they have even been featured on a US Stamp:
www.worldstampnews.com...-780
Although the comic started in the 1940s, it has changed over the years to stay current with the times. The average group of readers?
www.comicbookbin.com...

Archie: Our readers range for 8 to 80 and everywhere in between. Parents buy Archie comics for their children, and Grandparents buy them for the Grandchildren. Parents read the comics to the younger children, so they are our readers too. We have lifetime fans that started as small children and enjoy our comics as Adults.

Which brings me to my point.

Have a look at this page. This is a snippet from a story about a reality TV show being filmed in their school with the goal of filming typical teenagers going about their typical day. The director is explaining how they will approach the 'Live' flow of the show:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bba5e9ba2ae7.jpg[/atsimg]
Being that there are so many children that are introduced to these comics at a very early age (I started at about 3) why would George Orwell and '1984' be mentioned? By a teacher to a student? Suggesting the book and not the movie?

When I first seen it, I bought the comic and when I got home I read it of course (Still a guilty pleasure) The only thing that struck me as odd was that page. I put it down and have since thought about it a few more times. Finally had to post it.

I wonder if the writers are putting out a message to the youth? Suggesting that they read the book. Since they are already reading, it is a simple way to say something without getting too political and coming off as tin foil hatters.

Why not the movie? It's old and would have no attraction to the younger generation but since they clearly like books already....

For the older readers...is it a way to speak to them and to remind them of Orwell and the book? Or as a parent is reading it to a child, is it a smooth delivery system being that if a parent reads it to them, it might be interesting to look at?

Any of these scenarios is of course plausible to me as I can say without a doubt that after 46 yrs of reading Archie, this is by far the only thing that has ever struck me as out of the ordinary in these comics.

So for you fans, what do you think? Have you ever seen something like this before? We long time readers know these characters like our own families and friends so does this strike you as a little strange?

Thanks

From all the people reading that page in the comic ... how many do you think will read Orwells book?

Originally posted by AlexIR
From all the people reading that page in the comic ... how many do you think will read Orwells book?

I am going to say that among children, few. For the adults, maybe just a reminder.

For the writers, a way to speak their minds to the millions that read the comics and a reminder of what was said before, is now becoming reality.

Indeed, i would say more of a 'Writers Stance' Versus Anything,

i believe before you were allowed to place your own thoughts into your work, without being censored and that lot

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Indeed, i would say more of a 'Writers Stance' Versus Anything,

i believe before you were allowed to place your own thoughts into your work, without being censored and that lot

That's the interesting part. This is a new issue. A few weeks ago.

There is no doubt that this is a personal thought from the writer as there is no added value to the statement mentioning Orwell and 1984 whatsoever. The story could just as well have been told without it. That's one of the reasons it stuck out for me.

reply to post by jude11


That really is a good catch. I don't know how important it is but it is always fun to see this stuff come out in artifacts of popular culture.

If you get a chance check out some of the old Thundarr the Barbarian cartoons. There are all kinds of references to ritual magick and allusions to Aliester Crowley and that sort of thing. I am sure the artist and writers on the show were influenced by all the weird occult stuff going on in L.A. at the time (Hannah Barbara).

Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by jude11

 

That really is a good catch. I don't know how important it is but it is always fun to see this stuff come out in artifacts of popular culture.

If you get a chance check out some of the old Thundarr the Barbarian cartoons. There are all kinds of references to ritual magick and allusions to Aliester Crowley and that sort of thing. I am sure the artist and writers on the show were influenced by all the weird occult stuff going on in L.A. at the time (Hannah Barbara).

I'm not seeing it as an all out conspiracy by any means. Actually, I am seeing it as a writer using his art and tools to say something.

Now if that writer is here on ATS and he knew i would be shopping at that store on that day in that check out line...that's a conspiracy! lol

I have seen a lot of comics making reference to the occult and other topics in the past. What I find interesting is that this is not considered an adult comic and is a new edition.

I hope the writer catches this thread on ATS and pops in for a chat.

reply to post by jude11


that piece seems to downplay the gravity of 1984 like people tend to downplay the posssiblity of another Holocaust.

What a way to make people not see what's coming, unless somebody can.

Originally posted by Agape
reply to post by jude11

 

that piece seems to downplay the gravity of 1984 like people tend to downplay the posssiblity of another Holocaust.

What a way to make people not see what's coming, unless somebody can.

Actually, I don't see it as that at all.

Knowing the characters, I viewed it as Ms Grundy (Teacher) being disgusted with the similarity to Orwell. Not being to keen on having the students subjected to a ton of cameras filming every move they make and following them everywhere they go.

IMO

Very interesting indeed. Not a fan of Archie comics though, so I would have missed this. Thanks for catching and posting. As for the message, personally own a copy of 1984, and also have a cute mini poster that reads "From the government: 1984, Sorry but we are behind schedule!" I keep that handy as I watch the on slaught of "Reality" shows that now makes it sheik to spy on your neighbors, phones with video cameras, You tube mobile uploads.

I laugh at those that cry for "Privacy" then give it away on facebook.

We all should read and re-read it, also Animal farm another great Orwell. I have copies of both.

We shall give away our rights one public safety interest at a time.

Originally posted by jude11
Being that there are so many children that are introduced to these comics at a very early age (I started at about 3) why would George Orwell and '1984' be mentioned? By a teacher to a student? Suggesting the book and not the movie?

Seems pretty simple, the artist is just calling attention to the fact that many of the things going on in our day and age are very Orwellian in nature. Comics are a dialog between the writer and his audience, and many artists include political statements in their work. I imagine this was a nod to his older readers who (like me) grew up reading 1984 in school and who today are rather alarmed at the parallels between that book and current events. One of my coworkers and I discuss events in the news and frequently we talk about the "big brother" parallels. He's having the same conversation as us, but with a larger audience.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by jude11
Being that there are so many children that are introduced to these comics at a very early age (I started at about 3) why would George Orwell and '1984' be mentioned? By a teacher to a student? Suggesting the book and not the movie?

Seems pretty simple, the artist is just calling attention to the fact that many of the things going on in our day and age are very Orwellian in nature. Comics are a dialog between the writer and his audience, and many artists include political statements in their work. I imagine this was a nod to his older readers who (like me) grew up reading 1984 in school and who today are rather alarmed at the parallels between that book and current events. One of my coworkers and I discuss events in the news and frequently we talk about the "big brother" parallels. He's having the same conversation as us, but with a larger audience.

Seems to be a 'Nod' as you say. That would be the logical explanation.

Maybe it's just me and my love of this comic as being such a fixture in my life but I find it really cool.

Guess he nodded correctly, at least for one long time fan.

Why not the movie?

A movie can never convey the nuance that a book delivers. A movie is a compressed, abridged, often misleading fast-food answer to the full-course meal of a book.

Orwell's novel '1984' is the basis for our understanding where mankind is being driven, year by year, generation by generation, a warning wrapped up in a work of fiction, and if it does not instill horror into the reader's soul then they are missing the point or already assimilated.

Without this handbook written by this Rhodes scholar (you know, where they teach the world leaders of tomorrow the carefully crafted societal dogma they've designed so long ago) we would not have quite the understanding of what is being done to us, now in this present time.

The older teacher would know the warning of the book, and is trying to convey the grim message to the next generation of young 'frogs' who are quite comfortable with the pot nearly at a boil. (In case you miss the meaning of the Boiling Frog Metaphor )

It should still be mandatory reading in schools.

Originally posted by czygyny

Why not the movie?

A movie can never convey the nuance that a book delivers. A movie is a compressed, abridged, often misleading fast-food answer to the full-course meal of a book.

Orwell's novel '1984' is the basis for our understanding where mankind is being driven, year by year, generation by generation, a warning wrapped up in a work of fiction, and if it does not instill horror into the reader's soul then they are missing the point or already assimilated.

Without this handbook written by this Rhodes scholar (you know, where they teach the world leaders of tomorrow the carefully crafted societal dogma they've designed so long ago) we would not have quite the understanding of what is being done to us, now in this present time.

The older teacher would know the warning of the book, and is trying to convey the grim message to the next generation of young 'frogs' who are quite comfortable with the pot nearly at a boil. (In case you miss the meaning of the Boiling Frog Metaphor )

It should still be mandatory reading in schools.

Yup, Good Post.

And yes, the frog and pot metaphor is clearly understood. At least by this oldie.

I've come to the conclusion that so many of the younger generation are indeed in the boiling pot and that could be the reason for an Orwell reference in a comic that is read across generations. And also as a reminder to the older generation who may have become complacent.

Thanks!

Originally posted by mantarey
Very interesting indeed. Not a fan of Archie comics though, so I would have missed this. Thanks for catching and posting. As for the message, personally own a copy of 1984, and also have a cute mini poster that reads "From the government: 1984, Sorry but we are behind schedule!" I keep that handy as I watch the on slaught of "Reality" shows that now makes it sheik to spy on your neighbors, phones with video cameras, You tube mobile uploads.

I laugh at those that cry for "Privacy" then give it away on facebook.

We all should read and re-read it, also Animal farm another great Orwell. I have copies of both.

We shall give away our rights one public safety interest at a time.

I searched other forums on the net and tried to search the actual phrases from the issue. Couldn't find any other references to it although I'm sure others caught it as well.

Not a fan of Archie??? That's ok..I'll let that one slide.

Thanks!

reply to post by czygyny

Originally posted by czygyny
Orwell's novel '1984' is the basis for our understanding where mankind is being driven, year by year, generation by generation, a warning wrapped up in a work of fiction, and if it does not instill horror into the reader's soul then they are missing the point or already assimilated.

Without this handbook written by this Rhodes scholar (you know, where they teach the world leaders of tomorrow the carefully crafted societal dogma they've designed so long ago) we would not have quite the understanding of what is being done to us, now in this present time.

I feel "1984" is the boogeyman version. "Brave New World" is the actual and more nuanced direction.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
reply to post by czygyny

 

Originally posted by czygyny
Orwell's novel '1984' is the basis for our understanding where mankind is being driven, year by year, generation by generation, a warning wrapped up in a work of fiction, and if it does not instill horror into the reader's soul then they are missing the point or already assimilated.

Without this handbook written by this Rhodes scholar (you know, where they teach the world leaders of tomorrow the carefully crafted societal dogma they've designed so long ago) we would not have quite the understanding of what is being done to us, now in this present time.

I feel "1984" is the boogeyman version. "Brave New World" is the actual and more nuanced direction.

That would depend on the book or movie of 1984 I think.

The movie seemed to be a little more Hollywood and sensationalized of course. But the book didn't approach it that way at all. Orwell wasn't thinking of Hollywood at the time of writing.

Having said that, any thoughts on the OP?

Thanks

I'm not really a comic fan, but --
This makes me think of the Superman comic that came out not too long ago where Superman renounced his US citizenship or something like that. Here's a link to where I first heard about it.
Superman Renounces US citizenship

It's so funny that this particular comic mentions 1984 -- I read the book back in high school, but just recently watched the movie for the first time. You asked why the book and not the movie? The book was SOO MUCH BETTER! (IMO)

But it's nice to see that there are people out there in the world who have an audience and actually bring attention to the bigger issues we are facing.

S&F!

Originally posted by rEVOLuti0nary
I'm not really a comic fan, but --
This makes me think of the Superman comic that came out not too long ago where Superman renounced his US citizenship or something like that. Here's a link to where I first heard about it.
Superman Renounces US citizenship

It's so funny that this particular comic mentions 1984 -- I read the book back in high school, but just recently watched the movie for the first time. You asked why the book and not the movie? The book was SOO MUCH BETTER! (IMO)

But it's nice to see that there are people out there in the world who have an audience and actually bring attention to the bigger issues we are facing.

S&F!

I remember the Superman issue and I believe there's actually a thread here on it.

And yes it's great about having an audience and using it...especially when it's a younger audience.

Thanks

reply to post by jude11


You are welcome - have always been a huge Orwell fan, more of a futurists than many think.