Muslims obligated to resist democracy, say radicals

reply to post by fooks

Why is it only my responsibility? Why don't YOU do it? Because (in your eyes) we share the same beliefs (although I don't think Zamini is even a muslim)., thus I am responsible for them?

Why don't you out all the bigots and racists in your community? "DO YOU SUPPORT THEM?"

As I linked in my first post in this thread, there is no supposed "silent majority". There is no quiet throng of peaceful muslims who are letting the extremists get about their extreme actions. The muslims are condemning them just as much.

In fact, it came out in the news a couple weeks ago how an FBI informant was outed in a mosque because he kept making extremist remarks (trying to goad the muslims into agreeing with him so that he could report them), and then he was reported by the muslims.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, despite my long membership on these forums, but false flag, anyone?

reply to post by babloyi


it's all you guys responsibility to balance your faith,

just like the christians do.

we arrest the ones who break the law and put down the rads. and don't mention that baptist church, they are less than 20 ppl.

clean up your act and we can help.

the "small %" of us don't fly anymore as well as we demonize islam.

My faith is absolutely fine, thanks. It has no need of "balancing". Just because some random person does acts of violence using my faith in name as justification, doesn't mean I am accountable for them, or that Islam is accountable for them.

I condemn them absolutely, and I'm sure you do too, but it is no more my responsibility to "handle" them as it is yours. You wish to paint a picture of the muslim community being reticent about the supposed extremism in their midst, which is simply not true.

And "Just like christians do"? I don't remember ever seeing you condemn the christian terrorists in India. Or the abortion doctors. Or Army of God or other anti-abortionists. Or the Ku Klux Klan. Or the Westboro guys, who you just kick it under the rug "it's just 20 people" (actually it's more like 5 times that). Or any of the Christian Identity groups. Does this mean you support them? ARE YOU A SUPPORTER OF TERRORIST ACTS?! Perhaps we need to start getting loyalty oaths from Christians about their support of their government.

I am not a judge or a country leader or any such thing, and neither are you. Neither of us "arrest the ones who break the law and put down the rads". HOWEVER, the ones who ARE judges and lawyers and country leaders DO do this, muslims and christians alike. So I don't know what you are talking about.

Trying to justify your bigotry against Islam is just silly.

are these people "radicals" or just "muslims"- it is a very fine line to tread

reply to post by fooks

i know, why don't you and zamini be like mullahs or something and get all the rads to convert to nice guys or better yet out them?

I'm not a Muslim, I'm a human. Have you ever tried speaking to a religious radical? There is no sense, there is no reason.

you have many people here that would back you.

I needn't anyone but the truth. And I don't think "here" has a lot of truth to offer, between me and you. Besides, I know people who've been recruited into these kind of games and it's just a bunch of baloney really.

most all christian rads get caught and jailed and/or executed under the law.

they are not condoned or ignored.

once on the radar they are watched.

india? have no idea, sounds like retaliation to me for some nasty stuff.

you people have much to fix, muslims that is.

why are they killing each other? explain that, is it political, personal and why is it so common?

Muslims make up about 2% of the Aussie population,so really even if they all went feral the uprising would be over very quickly,but this sort of thing needs to be watched and maybe have a good hard look at who we let into our country,

And before anyone starts,I'm am not calling muslims feral or saying they will start an uprising,

reading this thread reminded me of another thread which had a very interesting video regarding the seemingly irreversible spread of Islam and muslims across the globe. www.abovetopsecret.com... If Islam and democracy can never find common ground then Australia should rethink its immigration policies also , but i will leave that for another thread. eta...something like this one........www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Zamini
Another one of these hate mongering threads? Why don't we leave that to these 1000 radicals and extremists and instead spend our own time ridiculing these extremists instead of taking them serious and thereby causing divisions within our own ranks?

Because of our right to free speech and expression, and because there's an army of leftist apologists that want to give them a free pass to hold host cultures and laws in contempt. However they are never called bigots for doing so... but if a westerner doesn't like this going down in their own country, If a westerner doesn't like their culture being held in contempt, suddenly they are the bigot. Leftists play into the hands of extreme Islam every day.


IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Ah I see, so you're taking the left/right angle to this issue.


FYI, doing that makes you look like a completely empty head to me. An empty head that is filled with fancy words from politicians and psychopaths. You're a grown man, how can you possibly assume you can divide every issue between left/right? I despise your way of reasoning because you divide people and incite hatred rather than try to find the source of the hatred and exterminate it.

reply to post by Zamini


Why attack me? A sure sign you don't have a worthy rebuttal. I thought so!

I despise your way of reasoning because you divide people and incite hatred rather than try to find the source of the hatred and exterminate it.

The source of hatred is organised religion. The worst of which are the three main Abrahamic religions. Exterminate it? Love to!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan

Why attack me? A sure sign you don't have a worthy rebuttal. I thought so!

To me, it doesn't seem like an attack really - just a direct question. It is the way it should be done to be honest - if we're going to be civil about all this. He asked a very good question actually - one I would be interested in hearing you answer:
You're a grown man, how can you possibly assume you can divide every issue between left/right?

I think this is a question we should all think about

It's not enough to pit one religious group against another it seems - but by pretending to be separate and set yourself above the fray somehow suggests you're in a superior position to judge these matters. Are you? Does the Right hold the superior position? Everything can be turned into yet another team sport - another us against them...how is politics any different?

Do you mean to say that all 'Leftists' (pretty broad and purposefully pejorative category label, but - hey - I'll play...) are stupid? Bad? Wrong?

:-)

Here’s your chance InfaRedMan – go for it

your words:

Because of our right to free speech and expression, and because there's an army of leftist apologists that want to give them a free pass to hold host cultures and laws in contempt. However they are never called bigots for doing so... but if a westerner doesn't like this going down in their own country, If a westerner doesn't like their culture being held in contempt, suddenly they are the bigot. Leftists play into the hands of extreme Islam every day.

I'm confused - define westerner for me - please.

Are the Leftists not also Westerners? Or are they separate, different - bad? Aren't they citizens with rights? Are the Muslims not citizens - or for many of them, in line to become citizens? Are they guests? Refugees? Are they prisoners?

Don't they have any rights? Are their rights different from the rights of 'real' citizens? When they abuse those rights and break laws – are there consequences?

Do 'westerners' never abuse their rights or break laws? Are there no consequences for westerners?

Are we talking separate but equal here? Or is it separate and unequal? Or – is everybody just the same and equal in the eyes of the law after all?

Is the right to freedom of speech and expression to blame for this...mess? Were this annoying bugaboo removed – would our lives be better?

I despise your way of reasoning because you divide people and incite hatred rather than try to find the source of the hatred and exterminate it.

I like Zamini’s use of the word incite here – I really do. Seduce might also work if we played around with this whole concept a little bit...what else could you call any of it really but incitement and seduction? All protected – at least in my country. It’s a beautiful thing.

Should Mein Kampf not be protected? Is it hate speech – or just one guy’s take on things? Is the Right’s freedom to express itself different in some way from the Lefts? From the Muslims?

The source of hatred is organised religion. The worst of which are the three main Abrahamic religions. Exterminate it? Love to!

If you could exterminate religion – we’d still be left standing at square one. You’ve pretty much proven this with your own argument.

Religion is not the problem – it’s intolerance – plain as the nose on your face. Hatred comes from this.

We need to work at being more tolerant. It’s not easy – but there it is

Zamini doesn’t need for me to point this out, but as long as I’m here taking up space – he didn’t attack you – he attacked your reasoning. Seems pretty civilized to me, and worthy of a real response.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Why quote my own words back at me? Especially if your just going to build little strawmen in response. I still stand by those words, and I'm not answerable to you Spiramirabilis... though you appear to carry on as though I do judging by your attitude over multiple threads. I'm really not interested. You say intolerance, I say religion breeds intolerance. Your point of view vs my point of view. We're both entitled to them. Get over it!

IRM

reply to post by fooks

"Muslim rads" get caught and executed as well under the law (although some are executed outside the law ).
They are not condoned or ignored either.

Why is anyone killing each other? It certainly has nothing to do exclusively with Islam. And it certainly isn't any more common among muslims than among anyone else.

This is my point of contention with the main thrust of most of your posts. You seem to imply that there is something intrinsic to being a muslim or to following the Islamic creed that makes one worse than anyone else following any other creed.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Look, you can avoid the question all you want, but it still stands. Why do you think the world is divided in left and right? There is no up? Where is down? How about a diagonal move? Or is your political spectrum two dimensional? You're basically screaming: "I don't know #!"

The source of hatred is organised religion. The worst of which are the three main Abrahamic religions. Exterminate it? Love to!

Look, I dislike organized religion. But I'm intelligent enough to understand the merits and the fact that religion is here to stay for now.You however, have not matured in mind yet to understand certain things about politics and religion.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I'll try to explain....

my world view is different from yours

if you feel strongly enough about your views to put them before the public - or even if you're just talking smack - you should be prepared to explain or defend your own words

my point of view is this: there is a campaign being waged against an entire people - Muslim people - and it's meant to do great harm

point, counter point - this is how it works. I won't sit by with my mouth shut anymore

this is ATS InfaRedMan

I was under the impression we discuss things here - sometimes at length. Sometimes - even when we don't agree

am I mistaken?

there was nothing in that post that you couldn't answer - they were real questions

you've just chosen not to answer - I'm sure you have your reasons

would you at least take the time to point out the strawmen in my post?

thanks in advance - ever so much

Spiramirabilis

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Look, I dislike organized religion. But I'm intelligent enough to understand the merits and the fact that religion is here to stay for now.You however, have not matured in mind yet to understand certain things about politics and religion.

You don't know me, or know what I do or don't know/understand. The fact that I reject something does not imply I do not understand it. Quite the opposite. Ad homonyms does not an argument make. Sorry, you no longer have my attention. Pretend to know someone else!

IRM