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NEWS: No-fly list Raises Civil-Liberty Concerns

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posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 04:10 PM
In a move to expand the no-fly lists airlines now use to screen passengers for potential terrorists and keep them off of commercial flights, which would consolidate as many as 12 secret lists used by different inteligence agencies, all recomended by the 9/11 commission as a part of their findings to improve security. The ACLU is strongly opposed to this move...

The Sept. 11 Commission wants the government to expand the no-fly list airlines now check to keep suspected terrorists off planes, consolidating as many as 12 secret lists maintained by different intelligence agencies.

That worries the American Civil Liberties Union, which has already sued the government, saying the airlines' effort to keep terror suspects and other dangerous people off planes ensnares innocent passengers and subjects them to unnecessary searches and delays. Also, the government provides no way for those wrongly named to get themselves removed.

"Right now, if you're on the list, you're in a no-fly jail. There is now way out of this," said Barry Steinhardt, the director of the ACLU's Technology and Liberty Project.

Commissioners agree the government has a "definite interest" in ensuring the protection of passengers' civil liberties as well as their safety. Their report, however, didn't spell out how the government should improve its checks and balances for the watch lists.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Does the general population seeking to travel by air suffer any harm to their civil liberties as a result of this move?

I believe that anything that can make it more safe and secure for those who travel by air should be done. However when you think about the deeper issue of having secret lists it can lead one too wonder if this kind of system could be abused by any of the parties in charge of mantaining these "secret lists".

Related Source Link:

[edit on 10-8-2004 by UM_Gazz]

posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 04:20 PM
But particularly anyone named David Nelson

Just checked the link and it says its too busy

The gist is that for some god knows why reason David Nelson is a biggie on the list and anyone with that name gets held up. "Go ahead Ozzie, Ricky, Mustapha, Hoooold on a minute there David"

[edit on 10-8-2004 by deevee]

posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 05:05 PM

Originally posted by deevee
But particularly anyone named David Nelson

Great link deevee

David Nelson...

I like these quotes from that page..

David Nelson

The 35-year-old actor said he was headed to Hawaii on vacation and handed his driver's license to a ticket agent at LAX, who blurted, "Oh, boy. Here's another David Nelson." "She told me, 'There's some terrorist with that name or something. That name brings a red flag."' Only a few months earlier, Nelson was settling into his seat on a New York-bound airplane when a voice called out, "David Nelson, please exit the plane." Within moments, FBI agents surrounded him, asked him to remove his shoes and searched his carry-on bags again. He eventually was allowed to reboard. But, he said, "When you get back on the plane, people look at you funny."

And then this one:

David Nelson

Even Ozzie and Harriet's son has been a victim in the case of mistaken David Nelsons. Now a film producer living in Newport Beach, David Nelson -- a star of ABC-TV's "The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet," a family sitcom that ran from 1952 to 1966 -- was stopped by a ticket agent at John Wayne Airport in December while on his way to visit his daughter in Salt Lake City. While waiting, the 66-year-old Nelson chatted with two Laguna Beach police officers who knew him and who asked the ticket agent: "Don't you know who this guy is?" But the officers were met with a blank stare from the agent.

The first David Nelson gave up on his vacation because he went through the same searches and questions at every airport he traveled through.

If you make the no-fly list talked about in the list in the original article it will be far worse than this.. No matter what you will not be let on the plane and could face several hours of questions and searches before being escorted out of the airport.

If you end up on the list.. Go Greyhound!


posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:19 AM
1. Get to the airport early.
2. Carry multiple picture IDs if you have them.
3. Carry proof of address.
4. Bring your passport if you have one, or your birth certificate.

This might help prove that you are NOT the John Doe they're looking for. And definitely don't try the Jedi Mind trick. Feds are easily annoyed by that.

posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 05:10 AM
Ive got no problem with the Feds making and using a no-fly list PROVIDED that the information is PUBLIC, and that there is a way to contest this no fly list.

If your a already know you are you going to complain if your name is on the list? (assuming the feds know your intentions/backround)

What is the alternative for those truely innocent flyers with the same name as a legitimate target on the list? Will they get a refund? how can you get off this list once on it (assuming your innocent and dont have a record for terror related crimes)

What gets your name onto this list to start with?

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