The Gog/Magog War Prophesied In Ezekiel 38-39 Is Beginning

Originally posted by TheUniverse
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Being agnostic means that you are unsure there is a God, am I correct? Well ask yourself how men 2,500-3,500 years ago could predict what is going on in the world today with such uncanny accuracy without a little help from Someone who can view human history - from beginning to end - from outside linear space-time. Perhaps that will convince you that there is more to our existence than what we can discern with our 5 senses.

This is just my personal opinion although i realise i know nothing and cannot prove god exists or doesn't

The Prediction made in the Holy Scriptures Tractates or Books Hold no pertinence to any events happening today.

and if you believe otherwise provide quotes and relation to exactly what has come true.

because you can take anything from the bible or whatever other holy scripture you might reference and try and make an analogy of something pertaining to the world today.

But that is just mis-interpreting what the people who wrote this scripture 1000's of years ago.

Still to the point what relevance does these old tractates and scriptures have to do with anything today?

They never specified Dates in the Holy Scriptures

Yes what guy above my post said basically they are written in an ambiguous way it could be pertaining to many things or anything...

edit on 28-6-2011 by TheUniverse because: (no reason given)

How about reading the OP? The re-birth of the Nation of Israel is a proven fact, and that specific prophecy is mentioned in the scripture I have already presented.

What other nation or group of people in the history of the world has been conquered and taken away into slavery - THREE TIMES - and dispersed throughout the entire world, only to be gathered together again after 2,000 years? That in itself is astonishing and unprecedented, but to have it predicted thousands of years ago defies logic unless there is Someone looking out for them, and using supernatural means to tell us all about it (and in the process giving that group of people hope that they have NOT been abandoned by their Father in Heaven and that one day they would once again be welcomed home to the land which was promised to them.)

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
I sometimes wonder how many nominal Christians are really Christian. Not many is my guess.

Seems to me a follower of Christ should be pretty easy to identify...I think that held true in the 1st century as well.

yes, well, lets just draw a line between religion (islam, christianity, etc) and "disciple of Yehu'shuah"

I agree you shall know them by their fruits!!

, he said "by this will all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another as I have loved you"

- my biggest gripe

- they just won't listen to these words and consider remotely adhering to them

reply to post by OldCorp

That in itself is astonishing and unprecedented, but to have it predicted thousands of years ago defies logic unless there is Someone looking out for them, and using supernatural means to tell us all about it (and in the process giving that group of people hope that they have NOT been abandoned by their Father in Heaven and that one day they would once again be welcomed home to the land which was promised to them.)

And again begs the question what does Religion/ Anti-Christ/ God/ Deities have to do with the history on Earth before humans arose which happens to be around 5 billion years old

The lands were there long before humans made up some Deity/God that promised any land to them.

Originally posted by dethduck
I prophecise that we are beyond the age of prophecy.
As such, all prophecies are false, and therefore invalid.

By the Great Pantheon,
So Say We All!

Incorrect:

Acts 2:17
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
- NIV

As to the OP - Keep up the good work.

Oh, by the way... perhaps one day those posters who fear guns will be in need of your protection, since they more than likely will not have one of their own with which to defend themselves.

Originally posted by OldCorp
When I began comparing the events that were foretold in the Bible to history and the headlines that I read in today's news, the logical side of my brain tells me that there is NO WAY they could have been as accurate as they are without some type of Divine inspiration.

Things not understood by current science are not necessarily "divine." I believe premonition is a real phenomenon and personally believe that it is some unknown power of the brain, of the "mind" or of consciousness itself. Not saying it can't be divine, just saying it doesn't prove divinity.

I took the liberty of replacing the old nation names in your quoted verse with your stated new nation names:

Originally posted by OldCorp
1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of (Central Asia), the chief prince of (Turkey); prophesy against him
3 and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of (Turkey)
4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords.
5 (Iran), (Sudan) and (Libya) will be with them, all with shields and helmets,
6 also (Turkey) with all its troops, and (Turkey) from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.
7 “‘Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them.
8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

I dunno man. Here's my Cliff's Notes version: "A bunch of middle eastern countries are gonna go ape-!%$@ and kill each other again." Great. Hasn't that happened like a thousand times? The only specificity I can see is "Israel will be ATTACKED" -- but this is still speculative until it actually happens. They've wanted to attack Israel since its inception.

And maybe I'm blind but I can't see the reference to "Rosh" in your quoted scripture?

Originally posted by OldCorp
23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!

The only thing I find particularly interesting in the entire OP is that. We know how susceptible babies are to radioactive material. Just look at the horrors after Chernobyl. Could be referring to massive infant deaths due to radioactive fallout? Of course, the U.S. has already been murdering babies in Fallujah by using depleted uranium:



So that wouldn't be particularly unique, either.

Also, how does this mesh with Christianity, exactly? I mean, if the Jews are "god's people", but he wants people to believe in Jesus, that seems contradictory to me, since the Jews reject Jesus as their savior. Christianity teaches us that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus Christ and following his teachings. Why would god then be so incensed just over the Israelites? Don't I matter too? Seems like a massive conflict between the OT god and NT god there.

It's these kinds of questions that just took away my personal faith in the bible, I'm sorry. I would like to believe there's a god that cares about me, however I can't honestly state my belief in religion anymore. However, as an observer of humanity, I believe that religion is generally good, Christianity specifically, and that the absence of religion would be terribly bad for most humans.

In any case, any sane person looking at current events would have to conclude that SHTF is probably coming sooner rather than later. It's interesting to look for biblical connections but I dunno how necessary it is. Maybe I should try to be more forgiving, in preparation for my soul being judged, but my desire for some kind of justice against the criminals of this world is too strong. I mean, if my righteous desire to bring justice to this world and make the world a better place isn't from god, who is it from? Satan? Doesn't make sense either. I believe in forgiveness but not sitting there passively when the criminals are still murdering people. Oh well.

reply to post by OldCorp


Does it ever occur to any of the Religions that those we refer to variously as TPTB, Illuminati, Bilderburgs ad nauseum ad infitum, are seriously mixed in with the heads of religions. This is planning not prophecy.
The various religous early myths may perhaps have groundings in much earlier geophysical catastrophes. They had the means of record long before any hoi polloi, add a few MAN MADE wars on top of that and you end up with a populous running round like headless chickens begging to be subservient and pay any price to get 'their' Gods to stop shaking the world and shooting at them.
I don't care what prophecy says. In the case of geophysical activities religion nor their Gods can stop it, in the case of war it's usually the religious and their Gods starting it.

Old Corp seem's like a thoroughly decent chappie gun or no gun. Can't say the avatar gives off anything threatening tbh, but anyway...
I'm not even religious but I've been saying the #'s been looking biblical for years! Coincidence or not, you can't deny you can see the connection. Every-time I switch on the news my eyebrows raise that little bit more and they hover three inches above my head like the pink panther already.

Give me Ezekiel 23 any day of the week.

Much more entertaining.

It's probably worth considering that these 'prophecies' may well just be plans and the the 'war on terror' or fighting for oil might just be means of bringing these plans to fruition.

Reply to post by Kryties

Actually, they are not ambiguous. They are actually quite detailed, if one would actually sit down and study them.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Good thread OP. Just remember:

2 Peter 3:3, 4- English Standard Version (©2001) knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by TheUniverse
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Being agnostic means that you are unsure there is a God, am I correct? Well ask yourself how men 2,500-3,500 years ago could predict what is going on in the world today with such uncanny accuracy without a little help from Someone who can view human history - from beginning to end - from outside linear space-time. Perhaps that will convince you that there is more to our existence than what we can discern with our 5 senses.

This is just my personal opinion although i realise i know nothing and cannot prove god exists or doesn't

The Prediction made in the Holy Scriptures Tractates or Books Hold no pertinence to any events happening today.

and if you believe otherwise provide quotes and relation to exactly what has come true.

because you can take anything from the bible or whatever other holy scripture you might reference and try and make an analogy of something pertaining to the world today.

But that is just mis-interpreting what the people who wrote this scripture 1000's of years ago.

Still to the point what relevance does these old tractates and scriptures have to do with anything today?

They never specified Dates in the Holy Scriptures

Yes what guy above my post said basically they are written in an ambiguous way it could be pertaining to many things or anything...

edit on 28-6-2011 by TheUniverse because: (no reason given)

How about reading the OP? The re-birth of the Nation of Israel is a proven fact, and that specific prophecy is mentioned in the scripture I have already presented.

What other nation or group of people in the history of the world has been conquered and taken away into slavery - THREE TIMES - and dispersed throughout the entire world, only to be gathered together again after 2,000 years? That in itself is astonishing and unprecedented, but to have it predicted thousands of years ago defies logic unless there is Someone looking out for them, and using supernatural means to tell us all about it (and in the process giving that group of people hope that they have NOT been abandoned by their Father in Heaven and that one day they would once again be welcomed home to the land which was promised to them.)

It does not defy logic but, it indeed does have to religious prophecy. Leaders within the British Government who pushed for the creation of Israel also believed that if Israel were to return that the second coming would come and they would go to heaven. They died sadly disappointed. When the first war at Israels birth started people at the time matched up with the combatants trying to destroy the new state with the Bible and thought the second coming was upon them. After all it all matched up with how they interpreted prophecy. They were wrong of course. Since then every conflict in that area of the world has also been interpreted as this prophetic war. And this is the problem with prophecy, it is vague and wide open to interpretation. If God really had influence on any biblical prophecy do you not think he would make it a bit more clear and not leave it so open that people would be grasping at straws to try and make events line up and over and over again be let down? The scenerio you have come up with does not fit any modern political or military realities no matter how hard to you try to make it so. Instead of trying to force modern events to fit an ancient prophecy perhaps it would be best to let them happen (if they do) the way they were written without a huge helping of interpretation.

reply to post by HologramDenier
I am sorry to say but your ignorance befalls you........don't knock it until you try it

reply to post by OldCorp


Great thread... I like this stuff. You finished out with you feel this is the inspired word of god. The bible is a great book. (I am not christian) Its prophecies ring true. I believe too that they are there to help us, guide us through the turbulent times ahead. It does accurately describe today's current events. Here's where we differ. I don't think god had anything to do with it.

S&F

Syria...Libya...Sudan...Iran/Persia...stuff is lining up, eh?

apparently the Muslim influence in Russia is rising. some guy predicted that by 2015 most of the Russian army will be muslim

"Mark Steyn at SteynOnline recently presented some startling statistics about the rapidly changing demographics in Russia. Here's what he said. There are ten million people in Moscow. Do you know how many of them are Muslim? Two and a half million. Or about a quarter of the population. The ethnic Russians are older; the Muslims are younger. The ethnic Russians are already in net population decline; the Muslim population in the country has increased by 40% in the last 15 years. Seven out of ten Russian pregnancies (according to some surveys) are aborted; in some Muslim communities, the fertility rate is ten babies per woman. Russian men have record rates of heart disease, liver disease, drug addiction and Aids; Muslims are the only guys in the country who aren't face down in the vodka. Faced with these trends, most experts extrapolate: thus, it's generally accepted that by mid-century the Russian Federation will be majority Muslim. But you don't really need to extrapolate when the future's already checking in at reception. The Toronto Star (which is Canada's biggest-selling newspaper and impeccably liberal) recently noted that by 2015 Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's army."
www.watchmanbiblestudy.com...

Originally posted by jeanne75018
Please OldCorp, could you display another avatar? Displaying a weapon is not right. I feel it like an aggression towards me.

edit on 28/6/2011 by jeanne75018 because: (no reason given)

ha ha ha! Not only do you sound like a Frenchmen....you ARE a Frenchmen. Scared of a picture of a rifle? ha ha ha ha!!!


Seriously though, Iran is pretty stupid. We can see anything in the ground. No matter how far they dig. Before they were even done we knew they were going to put missiles in those silos.

Originally posted by Observer99

In any case, any sane person looking at current events would have to conclude that SHTF is probably coming sooner rather than later. It's interesting to look for biblical connections but I dunno how necessary it is. Maybe I should try to be more forgiving, in preparation for my soul being judged, but my desire for some kind of justice against the criminals of this world is too strong. I mean, if my righteous desire to bring justice to this world and make the world a better place isn't from god, who is it from? Satan? Doesn't make sense either. I believe in forgiveness but not sitting there passively when the criminals are still murdering people. Oh well.

edit on 28-6-2011 by Observer99 because: addendum

I totally agree with what Observer is saying. There is just a big sense of unfairness in millions of persons being turned into ash over the whims of some lunatics sitting on big chairs in a control room.

It is no secret that a big percentage of Israel's population has become inhuman and predatory in their relations to the palestinian people. I just can't fathom how people can not find any similarities with the Nazi-created Warsaw Ghetto and the blockade imposed over Gaza, or the Southafrican apartheid and Israel's "disengagement policies". The way the state of Israel has behaved with the palestinians is just cruel, unjust and racist.

I am also a Christian. Catholic, to be precise. The idea I have of God is one of pure love, compassion and justice. To me, this paradoxical "Israel über alles" vision, regardless of how this state (which, to be fair, does not include the whole of its population) has behaved towards its neighbors is just shocking, counter-intuitive and nauseating.

The Old Testament view of God as Israel's genocide-prone "Lord of Hosts", is in direct opposition of the New Testament's version of God as Jesus Christ, the sacrificial lamb; indeed, the God of love, compassion, justice and understanding.

Which vision of God is more accurate? To be honest, I choose to believe in Jesus Christ and not in the Lord of Hosts. Even if they are one and the same, I just repulse the idea of God as being indulgent in the annihilation of billions of his children, regardless of their race or creed.

And that, OP, is why I choose to believe, despite how well researched and clear your arguments are, that you are wrong.

If politicians send their armies to slaughter, God has nothing to do with it. Mass murder is not God's will. Genocide is our decision and we must not elude our responsibility in owning it up.

Peace be with you, brothers.

reply to post by Pervius


Is this war supposed to happen before or after the temple is rebuilt? I try to keep an open mind about this stuff, but there is so much to sift through. I find it hard to reconcile a merciful deity with a vengeful one.

reply to post by OldCorp


Here's a link to the U.S. Geological Survey estimate overview. This site has a pdf with pictures and a fairly good overview of what's currently known about the carbon resources in this gas field.

pubs.usgs.gov...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f03bf821c009.jpg[/atsimg]

Wow you write a whole post about Gog/Magog and don't even bring in any of the very detailed accounts of it in the Qu'ran?
Christians are so close-minded. They need to realize there were more prophets than Jesus. They also need to realize Jesus was *just* a prophet.