Help me Help a Friend

One of my best friends, had a rough chilhood, and growed up in a dysfunctional family. It turned him angry with the world, and a revolted person.

Behind all this persona there's a good hearted person almost crying for help, and easily misunderstood by the majority of people.

Ive know him for couple of years and had shown little or no improvment.

One of the things blocking his spiritual enlightenment, and making peace with itself its that his a profund atheist.

Is there any way to help such person to find his path ? (By this i dont mean Religious person i mean a more spiritual person more connected with itself and others)

Maybe not...

:EDITED: ( Cause it was causing some misunderstanding, i dont want to Enforce any religion , just for the record im not a religious person, i dont preach, or follow any religion, my ideia of religion is some higher entity just that. What i meant and wrote on the paragraph above, its to become a more spiritual person connected with itself and others.

PS: sorry for my english, its not my native language

reply to post by grinitagi


Hmmm...I'm no psychologist or guru or anykind, but I can tell you that I grew up Catholic. I thought I "knew" and "felt" a connection to God. Now 15 years later, I wouldn't call myself an agnostic or an atheist, but I actually feel more "connected" to the world - that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you think about existence as a whole (taking away all the bad, and most of the people of course ) and I learned that God doesn't have to factor into it. Or anything.

I accomplished this by reading about - and subsequently learning - as much as I possibly could about everything around, particularly philosophical and metaphysical things, and trying to become connected to the earth. I also started growing flowers and got a dog.

Now this is just my opinion, but it is as follows: Religion fills a void that we all have, but this void can be filled by a number of things. I'm not talking about comforting the fear of death or devoloping a moral compass. Hell, I think if there is a God there still may be no punishment or an afterlife or anything like that. For some, following a religion fills this void. For others it's taking up a hobby.

I would take him on a nature hike. Somewhere with vast terrain where his eyes can adjust to the distance and allow him to see almost to the horizon. Skydiving would be good. A camping trip even.

I would tell him that even if there no God per say and that maybe even if the world was dominated by evil men, that it is up to US to start fresh. It all start's with YOU. YOU vote. YOU decide who you work for. YOU make up the opinions that guide this world. If he doesn't like the world he lives in, that is perfectly fine. Everybody hates it occasionally and some more than others. Hate can be a good driving force to get something done. That thing that needs to be done is progressing the human race. Afterall, the earth is for the living, and not the dead. It just makes sense to spread goodwill and good emotions. They are contagious and they get things done.

This might be a stretch, but a good book to read would be Malcolm X's Autobiography. He too was once filled with negative emotions and he overcame that. Maybe your friend could identify with him, and learn from his rhetoric and word choice. Martin Luther King is another great read. Winston Churchill too. Perhaps he just needs to find the right words?

reply to post by grinitagi


Indeed there is something you can do!

You can listen to him, and allow him to confide with you.

You cannot change someone else, they must change themselves.

reply to post by grinitagi


Most certainly you can help him. Find him a good teacher of meditation, something such as Transcendental Meditation (TM) that fancies no religions are necessary to be a good and happy person and have him learn to meditate by their process.

If he is diligent, he can master the process in a few months and gain terrific insights into his own being and his association with the Universe. This will undoubtedly transform him into a more understanding and accepting person. If he reaches true enlightenment eventually, he will be at the supreme moment of human consciousness and I would venture to say far advanced beyond anyone that is hindered by religious trappings regardless of what religion. (I will partially absolve Buddhist from that statement.)

Sseriously, you are completely wrong in thinking that he needs religion. That is YOUR problem. Undoubtedly, you think he also needs YOUR religion. So you are wanting to help him on your terms either in acquiring your religion or any religion. Do you see your mistake?

He is on his path. Worry about your own. If your's is good he will see and follow if not, that is his choice and you cannot force it upon him. He has to wan't to become better basicly. Lead by example if you must.

In this case, you could watch with him a documentary which is called " What the Bleep do we Know" available on Youtube and inspire him with Noetics see Dr Masaru Emoto water experiment (see book: The Hidden Messages in Water), it is easy fascinating and could empower your friend to change his approach to the world and in a most helpful way to himself, and please be careful not being to pushy about it, own experience has thought me that people have different departure levels of understanding of many things including spirituality, and sometimes we are also born on different development stages and not always a difficult childhood has implication on the spiritual mind, good luck, you are a good friend, though never forget it will be still his decision if and how he will advance spiritually

Look as some one who grew up in broken home, and as a survivor of abuse, I can say.... If you want to help him, please do not try to force religion on to him.... If he needs help he needs help, but he needs help from a doctor or therapist... Not from a priest who is preaching from a book written by men 2000 years ago...

Plus, you said he is Athiest, so most likely forcing your religious views onto him is only going to push them away from you.

Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by grinitagi

 

Most certainly you can help him. Find him a good teacher of meditation, something such as Transcendental Meditation (TM) that fancies no religions are necessary to be a good and happy person and have him learn to meditate by their process.

If he is diligent, he can master the process in a few months and gain terrific insights into his own being and his association with the Universe. This will undoubtedly transform him into a more understanding and accepting person. If he reaches true enlightenment eventually, he will be at the supreme moment of human consciousness and I would venture to say far advanced beyond anyone that is hindered by religious trappings regardless of what religion. (I will partially absolve Buddhist from that statement.)

Sseriously, you are completely wrong in thinking that he needs religion. That is YOUR problem. Undoubtedly, you think he also needs YOUR religion. So you are wanting to help him on your terms either in acquiring your religion or any religion. Do you see your mistake?

You misunderstood what i said, i said dosent need to be any religion , i said a more spiritual person. Myself i dont follow any religion just for the record.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Look as some one who grew up in broken home, and as a survivor of abuse, I can say.... If you want to help him, please do not try to force religion on to him.... If he needs help he needs help, but he needs help from a doctor or therapist... Not from a priest who is preaching from a book written by men 2000 years ago...

Plus, you said he is Athiest, so most likely forcing your religious views onto him is only going to push them away from you.

i was misunderstood, im not religious myself, i meant more spiritual person connected with itself & others.

reply to post by grinitagi


May Peace be upon us all.

I do not think your friend needs any god or any religion. Your friend needs to reach an understanding about existence. His/Her understandings do not need to be rooted in religion or doctrine. But your friend must seek understanding to escape suffering. Please allow me to quote from Lord Buddha a concept that all people should come to understand;

"I will explain what true self-sufficiency is and what is the better way to live alone. A self-sufficient person is a person who dwells in mindfulness. He is aware of what is going on in the present moment, what is going on in his body, feelings, mind, and objects of mind. He knows how to look deeply at things in the present moment. He does not pursue the past nor lose himself in the future, because the past no longer is and the future has not yet come. Life can only take place in the present moment. If we lose the present moment, we lose life. This is the better way to live alone.

What is meant by 'pursuing the past'? To pursue the past means to lose yourself in thoughts about what you looked like in the past, what your feelings were then, what rank and position you held, what happiness or suffering you experienced then. Giving rise to such thoughts entangles you in the past.

What is meant by 'losing yourself in the future'? To lose yourself in the future means to lose yourself in thoughts about the future. You imagine, hope, fear, or worry about the future, wondering what you will look like, what your feelings will be, whether you will have happiness or suffering. Giving rise to such thoughts entangles you in the future.

Return to the present moment in order to be in direct contact with life and to see life deeply. If you cannot make direct contact with life, you cannot see deeply. Mindfulness enables you to return to the present moment. But if you are enslaved by desires and anxieties over what is happening in the present, you will lose your mindfulness and you will not be truly present to life."

- Lord Buddha

We must live in the 'Now' as much as possible. We must release the pain and regrets of the past, and do not create fears or worries of the future.

This and this happened to you in the past? That is unfortunate, but what is happening 'right now'? Only you are rekindling those pains by dwelling on the past.

You are pessimistic about the future? Don't be, we can not predict the future, and most of what we expect to occur never happens. Life happens unexpectedly.

Try to get your friend to understand the concept of 'Now'.


• Sacrament of the Present Moment - Catholicism (Jean-Pierre de Caussade)
• Mindfulness of the Present Moment - Buddhism
• Presence without Absence - Islam-Sufism
• Conscious Awareness - New Age Movement

reply to post by grinitagi


I haven't read the other responses yet, but in my opinion, people have to find their own spirituality. Any organized religion will quickly turn him off.

I would suggest nature. Fishing, Hiking, Mountain Climbing. I'll tell you what, it is almost impossible to deny there is a God when a are watching a sunset at the beach with a beautiful woman and a 12 pack of beer! Even more difficult if you are still there at sunrise and have been lucky enough to escape the sandfleas, mites, and mosquitoes!

In all honesty, all you can do is widen your friends horizons and expose him to some naturally wondrous things, and then let his own mind seek out the true meaning for him.

I'm honestly beginning to think that the cup holds only so much, and to strech the cup a person has to do it themselves, normally by selfless action. Its a good oldtime recipe.

Age helps alot, seems to me at least that you tend to progress ( at your own speed) as you age. The process seems to bring acceptance, patience, understanding..... and all round ability to walk in the shoe's of thier niebours.

I have been both amazed that an older person can be so asleep, or a young one so awake.....

I personally try to achieve the highest standard for personal growth displayed to me....and it take a shame in the fact that the person...often younger see's it so clearly to see it under a differant lens.

I rejoice in my own little place in the universe, I do my function and I "try" hard to be the real "me" at all time in every situation. no manipulation...honesty.

Your friend will learn in his time and choosing from the example of very real friends and experiences, the best way to "help" your friend is to be "real" with him in my opinion, it requires very little work but alot of internal honesty on your part.

I notice alot of success with this recipe. but it's an opionion based on an understanding from a precipice over looking a long way

Peace and all the best.

Even though you were wronged and for no good reason by bad people, it does no good to harbor those feelings of outrage because those people may not have been capable of doing better than they did.
It is up to you to get past that and to loosen your grip on those memories. Storing them up, as if some day you will be able to testify against those people is amazingly foolish, after you have lived long enough to realize the problems you have given others in the course of a lifetime. Judge not, a wise man once said, lest ye be judged.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Look as some one who grew up in broken home, and as a survivor of abuse, I can say.... If you want to help him, please do not try to force religion on to him.... If he needs help he needs help, but he needs help from a doctor or therapist... Not from a priest who is preaching from a book written by men 2000 years ago...

Plus, you said he is Athiest, so most likely forcing your religious views onto him is only going to push them away from you.

I have to agree with gimme-some-truth. I was married to an Athiest who had many friends who shared the same beliefs (or non-beliefs I should say). I don't know about all Atheists but the ones I've ever personally known have all equated the word "religion" with the word "spirituality". One and the same and all mumbo-jumbo from their perspective.

If you truly feel he needs professional help or there might be dire consequences (and I'm talking physical harm to himself or others), you should guide him to a professional therapist. Unfortunately, we can't chart someone else's journey; we can only be there to provide support. You sound like a good friend and I wish you and your friend luck!

Timidgal

As I was reading this I thought for a moment you were my friend, and then I was trying to think who would know me and be posting on ATS where they know I would see it, but then I got to the part about being an Atheist and I knew it was not me! It was not me as I am today, but there was a time when I did not believe in GOD or Spirit and I only believed in pain and suffering.

Within me lies the most extreme levels of Goodness, and within me lies the most extreme levels of Anger; I somehow have managed to allow them to battle long enough that the Goodness is my predominant persona, but it does not mean the Anger or Badness does not exist; it does and it is deep, hidden, and easily excitable.

I suffer a fate that I would never wish upon another living soul and I have often wished there were a way to wash myself completely of the Anger, the bitterness, and the hatred; but I cannot, and each time I have found "Bliss" the worst of myself begins its torment upon me.

It is this very struggle that has facilitated my Spirituality, the classic battle of Good and Evil and the triumphs that prevail. Yet the torment will arise at any given moment and I can be thrust into the darkest depths of my being.

I have never hurt anyone physically, but I have managed to push everyone away except those who know this within me and have accepted the hurt it causes. I never really try to hurt anyone but myself, but those who know me recognize the good part as being "who I really am", and the bad part as my "demon".

As for therapy, it does not help, my bad withers away into the tiniest space and will even pretend to be gone; I have forgiven myself daily and I have tried to forgive my original tormentors. Yet they still find me, and they still torture me to this very day.

What happens to children who are so severely abused sexually, emotionally, physically and ultimately mentally? Well, they typically go one way or the other, but the truth is both sides of them exist and always will exist until they finally kill themselves in the process!

This is why I believe in Christ, this is why I believe in GOD, because I want to be saved from myself!

Your friend is likely lying to you about GOD because he does not want you to find out about the truth of the extent of the pain. Even if he says it is no big deal and rattles on, he is hiding that one part that would throw him to his knees in ultimate pain and the shame would be so great that he likely would crumble before you. If he has shown you, then it is at this moment when he can be "reached" either by you or by something greater than himself, something that reveals to him that he is Loved and Forgiven!

I wish it were as easy as that, but it isn't; he is now the abuser if he cannot overcome the hatred part and it sounds like you are his victim!

OK, enough of that, I can offer him a reading if he likes, privately I can send you his Numerology and maybe somewhere in that reading he might recognize himself enough to realize he has failed himself and needs to wake up to it. Please U2U me his birthday, with the year, and I will be happy to share! Maybe it might help you in discovering who he really is, but then again, it may be too late as I believe the time is short and we may not have much time left.

Good Luck! If he cannot change he has to be abandoned, otherwise he will hurt more than himself!