I'm Becoming a Skeptic. This Stuff Borders on Cult..

Usual Disclosure: This is My Opinion...

Following this subject for the last 3-4 years, has just gotten frustrating...I was open minded on Aliens probably visiting this planet... Open Minded on the Government Covering it up.
I'm very well read on many UFO/Alien Books, and will continue to be so.
I'm slowly realizing that there really is almost no proof.
This subject has been alive since nearly 100+ years. I'm talking about Modern UFO sightings..

There are not many true experts. The 3 most visible "experts" just do not seem very legit.
There are people who start "focus groups" go into the woods snap a picture of a moth and call it a light being.
(* Cough Mr. Greer. * cough*)
There people who just throw random dates out there. (*Mr. Wilcocks*)
Lets not forget the "Reptillian Expert".. (*Mr. Icke*)

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Sometimes this Subject just feels so "Cultish" to me.

The fact that people seem to believe that when aliens come everything will turn into a paradise,
"we will be enlightened," "knowledge of the universe will be shared", "human will reach their spiritual potential."
Pleadians are our friends they warned us other invasions almost every year.
Remember October of 2010?

And they believe this blindly with no evidence?

Images like this

[ /URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/c0139575771187.jpg/]

Both artistic recreations.... The female was on a site called arturi....A Extraterrestrial Community...
The male I just found on a google image search. But according to a few "theories" from other sites the light coming out of his hand is "spiritual knowledge."

Many who follow the teachings of the Arcturians are beginning the revolution of the conscious age that will one day lead humans to the powerful and mystical forces the Arcturians practice today! Edgar Cayce was the first to mention these beings and has now been coined as the father of the Arcturians.

Hmm.....
This stuff borders on cult in my opinion.
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The Argument that we would be Dead by now if they were evil is BS.

What did the Europeans do once they found out about "The New World"?...Thats right! They Colonized! What happened to the Natives?
What on earth would make these "believers/cultist" believe the aliens are any different?

Who knows they may not want to colonize..yet... But to have this CLOSED MINDED belief that the Aliens can ONLY be Good, Angel Like, Mean No Harm just does not make sense.

You don't forcibly abduct people,
experiment on them,
According to some abduction stories Have sex with Humans, impregnate them, .
I do not consider that to be "GOOD WILL" for the Humans.
In My Opinion.


IF They are visiting, experimenting, etc, they know we are here. We don't know what they are planning.
My Argument is Humans should be prepared for both cases
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According to some the reason why people don't see Aliens and UFO's is because they don't believe.
"If they believe they would see that aliens are all around us"..........

Or Aliens are not revealing themselves because humans believe in "Primitive things like Religion," yet people make the argument they believe Aliens made us.. Which Ironically enough is the main belief of the Raelian Religion.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Raelian Movement teaches that life on Earth was scientifically created by a species of extraterrestrials, which they call the Elohim.

Lets not forget all the other ufo religions.
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Statutes, Paintings, Structures that can interpreted as anything, for ratings for history channel specials,
and monetary reasons, personal self gain they can be and are interpreted for what people WANT to believe.

This UFOLOGY topic is purely speculation sadly.
There is no Legit proof..

I do not think there is a massive NASA coverup. I've read the theory that Aliens are helping NASA.
Just based on NASA's Projects I seriously doubt it. Looking at Orion which is basically another capsule. It just seem like Nasa is going Backwards.

In the Age of Wikileaks, LULsec, Anon, nothing has been leaked? In the year 2011 leaks come out almost daily, weekly, monthly, yet something that could change History, has not been found?
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There are people who believe Pokemon and Digimon are real
The people on this site think Pokemon Are Real..
They have same amount of evidence, that people who believe in aliens have...Do you believe them?
z9.invisionfree.com... (apparently the forum may have hacked.. so be careful). The forum looks dead. But googling show their are many people/kids who think they are real.

There is apparently another site somewhere called digiclipse in which people think digimon are real and they (humans) could one day go to digiworld....

Both of these groups of people claim to have seen something...Do you believe them?
Some even interpret ancient statues to fit their belief... just like UFO believers.


I know Skeptics are generally looked down upon on this site.
I'm prepared to be called
troll
sheep
etc..
Personally I don't care.


Basically this is my opinion. Maybe its a long rant.
In my previous topics posters will say Ufology is more a religion then science. I seriously starting to believe that.
This subject is bordering on a cult. More then anything.

I agree with much of what you have to say.

I do believe that aliens are real and they are visiting. I also believe there is very little good evidence that they do. Believing in aliens is similar to a religion, because it is one way to provide an alternative reason for our existence and a gap to explain the unexplainable.

Is there enough evidence? No. Is there reason to believe? Yes. Can it be viewed as a cult/religion? Yes. Does it have to be? No.

It is whatever you want it to be because like in all religions, there is not enough evidence.

reply to post by TheLogicalist


I agree. As if 'flying saucers' weren't crazy enough.

Well your right for the most part. I would consider ufology to be a science/religion in a way. Proof is hard to find for anything IMO, information and evidence can easily be controlled by governments. If you think the government is to stupid to keep secrets you would be wrong, and if you disagree I would challenge you to find out what the names of all our undercover operatives are, the location and codes for all nuclear weapons, or Obama's cell phone number.

The only "proof" that can be presented if any are the testimonies of people who have been in contact with them. The only physicaly compelling evidence I have ever seen are implants that have been extracted from people (a old friend of mine had one of these) that emit a strong electromagnetic field.

All in all there is no proof. But I believe. Why? Because of the experiences I had when I was young and the logic to understand that we cannot be the only intelligent beings in the universe.

Good morning! Yes, that coffee sure does smell good, doesn't it? Have a cup, it will help you think more clearly.

Originally posted by Openeye
Well your right for the most part. I would consider ufology to be a science/religion in a way. Proof is hard to find for anything IMO, information and evidence can easily be controlled by governments. If you think the government is to stupid to keep secrets you would be wrong, and if you disagree I would challenge you to find out what the names of all our undercover operatives are, the location and codes for all nuclear weapons, or Obama's cell phone number.

Not to mention all the hoaxers making book money.

Originally posted by Openeye
The only "proof" that can be presented if any are the testimonies of people who have been in contact with them. The only physicaly compelling evidence I have ever seen are implants that have been extracted from people (a old friend of mine had one of these) that emit a strong electromagnetic field.

The first isn't "proof", it isn't even evidence. None of these "alien implants" have been found to be anomalous

Originally posted by Openeye
All in all there is no proof. But I believe. Why? Because of the experiences I had when I was young and the logic to understand that we cannot be the only intelligent beings in the universe.

edit on 21-6-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)

Your experience as a child isn't that reliable. But okay.

What does other intelligent life being probable have to do with visitation? It's likely there is ET life, but HIGH unlikely, and even more improbable that they are visiting us.

reply to post by TheLogicalist


It is hard to differentiate the truth,from lie the more i read the more i understand.
i have read much phoenix journals.They ask you to meditate sunday 13.00 hrs.
They use the word SAALOME,this very close to SAALM which is SAALM (supreme Annunaki assembly of Lord Marduk) I hope they are not connected because brezinsky what i have read is bad sess.

reply to post by TheLogicalist


I think part of the problem is that alot of New Age charltans have hijacked parts of the UFO movement- mixing in New Age mumbo-jumbo in with UFOs.
This in turn, can make the whole UFO movement look silly, especially to people who may not be that familiar with the subject......

reply to post by TheLogicalist


You seem to be confusing Ufology with the stuff and nonsense that surrounds it , Greer ,Wilcock and Icke are not experts , they are hucksters who would sell their respective grannies for a buck .

There are real experts in the field that do proper research , some of the even reside on this very site , some of them have built their reputations over the years by doing worthwhile research and analysis of cases past and present .

The people involved in groups like the GFL , Ashtar Command and even Project Camelot are in the business of making money first and UFO's second in my opinion .

TheLogicalist
This UFOLOGY topic is purely speculation sadly.

Not so , UFO's are real the evidence is there if you look for it , so it's not HD video or multi mega pixel pictures but the documentary evidence is strong , speculation does not leave radar traces nor does it play cat and mouse with jet fighters

I use to be a big believer in UFO's I still believe ET's are here on the planet but the cult like nature that you mentioned is what started turning me off to the whole thing.
The whole planetary savior/ascended master thing really gives me the creeps especially if there are artistic renditions like what you showed in the above post.
I think the final nail in the coffin for me was David WIlcock I was into him for a while until I realized he was just talking out of his backside and really saying nothing at all and his followers would probably never call him on his B.S.
The fact that I feel he is a fraud and or a charlatan has made me skeptical of all other people in the field which is a shame the bad apples spoil the bunch so when they day comes that some one is actually presenting real information it will be hard to distinguish them from the charlatans.

Originally posted by TheLogicalist
I'm slowly realizing that there really is almost no proof.

Well, you're right about that. The only thing we have are a lot of weird stories. Way too many to all be lies, misinterpretations, or hoaxes. So there's a whole lot of one kind of evidence, but not much hard, physical evidence, and what hard evidence there is, is questionable and confounding.

But even with all the evidence, we still don't know what it's evidence OF. Something odd, for sure. But is it "aliens?" There's no proof of that. So what can we do? Try to come up with alternative explanations. Wait patiently and see if some new evidence appears that can point us in the right direction.

It's very possible that none of us will live to see the proof of whatever is associated with the evidence.

I believe in alien visitation mainly for two reasons..

1. Probability favors aliens exist
2. I've seen a UFO myself and have friends in the airforce I trust who have also had encounters

Aside from those two points, I'm a very tough skeptic in this forums.. I never discuss my sighting because it's irrelevant to the conversation without evidence.. my experience is one I can't just explain away personally

The "evidece" present thus far is often in the form of a grainy photo that could be any number of terrestrial things, there's never been anything conclusive and until there is, or they land on our soil and cut into our regularly scheduled broadcast.. I will remain a skeptic who required good, solid evidence.

Yes that's right, I'm a skeptic who believes.. I just think most people aren't sure of what they saw, or they want to believe so much that they take it on faith but produce hoax evidence to help their case.. ... that or there's also those that produce hoax evidence just to laugh at those who fall for it... we simply cannot accept most things we see on here as fact unless it's crystal clear and reputable

reply to post by adeclerk

Not to mention all the hoaxers making book money.

Yes lots of people make money off of books, I personally do not trust the words of people who want to sell things. I do respect the opinion of non profit researches who take a non-biased approach such as NARCAP.

The first isn't "proof", it isn't even evidence. None of these "alien implants" have been found to be anomalous

No, eyewitness testimony is not actual proof (I put quotations over the word proof in that post to emphasize doubt). However we also cannot dismiss every eyewitness account as BS, such as strange encounters from seasoned pilots while in flight. The implants have always been composed of materials found on earth, but do have strange electromagnetic properties. It took the doctor almost 2 hours to remove the straight piece of metal from my friends back because every time the instrument got close to the implant it would move.

Your experience as a child isn't that reliable. But okay.

What does other intelligent life being probable have to do with visitation? It's likely there is ET life, but HIGH unlikely, and even more improbable that they are visiting us.

My experience as a child is not really reliable I know. it is just something that makes me believe since no one else experienced it I cannot profess it as fact.

Our concept of science is not finite. We have not even begun to scratch the surface of knowledge. To say things are impossible from where we stand with knowledge is very naive. We have already theorized of space time displacement technology, wormhole travel, forms of warp speed. just because we cannot see/touch something does not mean it is impossible. That is one of our problems right now, we think we know it all and deny anything else becasue we cant see/feel it.

I picture the ufo cultism people all on top of a building hold hands and raising signs. Some saying we love you, or welcome back, or save us. etc, etc as the Alien ships arrive to announce they are here and , well this happens.....


What you know they were holding signs too,...hmmmm.

I am with you, I am a believer, just not into the whole weird cult(Esoteric) Tantric what ever thing. My Sister and 2 cousins have now gone to the cultish side of it all now. You have know idea how odd Thanksgiving is at my home. hehe.

There definitely is a psychological reason for people believing in aliens and UFOs.

When I was in the middle of grade school, primarily between the years '91-'92, I was a staunch believer in these sort of things. I read all the books I could on the subject, and I started paying attention to the paranormal TV investigative series that came on. The first one I watched was a reenactment of the loggers in the southwest; the same thing that was the premise of the movie Fire in the Sky. It scared me so much that I had to question why it made me felt so terrified. With the stories of memory suppression, I began to believe that I was abducted as a child and the terrifying aspect of it was because the experience was trying to poke through my consciousness. I really considered the possibility that I was an alien and that I was being checked on from time to time.

But looking back, I know that isn't' the case. Fact is, I was in a way alien, to my family and people that I knew, because I was different from them, and didn't find many common threads among us. I believe that believing in aliens so much was a my way of rationalizing my semi-absurd life at that point in time.

So maybe, the thread that runs through believers is feeling out of place.

Well, before I watched documentaries about ancient aliens, the ufo cases, some conspiracies and former Dulce/Area 51 workers in depth that is making connections - because I've seen those since I was a kid but lately made a deep research, so before that I was just into Astronomy, regular science and of course that means I completely excluded the Bible as anything plausible. If not Ancient Astrounaut Theory, I would have no reason to accept any information from the Bible whatsoever. And being there was fine, you didn't think about these stories. you didn't fill your head with What IF? and is it true?.

So I feel you OP, Im also tired of this uncertainty around UFOs, seems you were into research and just got tired of the same things, so I can't call you someone who has never even read about UFOs as you seemingly have done that.

If you want to give a pause to reading anything about it or stop it unti/IF something real ever comes out, go ahead, stop it but don't close your mind - remember the many cases that exist and that may be true.

My job to talk about it here is to bring people AWARENESS - awareness of what could happen but still only being a possibility not a certain thing, so that if such thing ever happens people to have already accepted that possibility and not get freaked out unlike some who have never read anything about UFOs.

I find the ufo hunters investigations plausible because they mostly prove what something is not, not that it is an alien, so they are doing a great job and I follow this approach, which is also the same as MUFON's, But I feel the same, nothing comes out and unless we get some real evidence this will be just bla bla.

Well the first mistake you made was assuming there was a simple answer, there isn;t, so get used to it or just quit. Sorry to sound harsh however UFOs will not fit into some neatly labelled box as so many control freak sceptics would love it to do.

You assume that, simply because you are interested that whoever is responsible for the phenomenon should front up and tell us all, again typical of so many sceptics attitude, that is. "If it didn't happen to me and I didn't see it, it didn't happen at all".

Over the last 60 years umpteen people have thought they had that, piece of evidence that clinched it, that photo that couldn't be denied, that story that could be corroborated, only to find. On the eve of going public the whole thing evapourated like a summer morning mist.

The cult of personality just so happens to be the zeitgeist of our current social nature. It's always been there under the surface however, the media has constantly promoted it to the extent it has infiltrated every last corner of life, from science to building chuffin' computers. Jobs is just as much a "cult of personality" as Rasputin was, that's just the way of the current world.

In my many years in the subject the one truth i have found is this. If you remain open minded and listen to people, rather than constantly tell them what they actually saw, even though you weren't there, you will find they are willing to offer you tales that will keep you topped up on the suspicion that, summat damnably weird is going on and the agenda is still, as yet, completely unknown.


The likes of Randi, Klass, Ridpath are, or were, just as big a billy bsers as many of the loony wing of the believers.

The truth is, we don't know and therein lies the biggest problem. Politicians and the military have to now or they get all upset and then have to resort to denial cos they can;t possibly be seen to be left their collective arses waving in the breeze pants down waiting for a good spanking at the whim of some other intelligence. So, they lie, cos it's their nature to do so in these sort of circumstances and they back and slip snippets of disinformation to the loud mouthed sceptics, who in the end,have only one real interest, the sound of their own voices.

Meanwhile as I am typing this, somewhere in this world someone is having their very core beliefs about our world being challenged by something they are witnessing for themselves. The vast majority of these incidents go unreported, as most would rather not be thought of "mad" and that's perfectly understandable.

Some will see their experience as quasi religious, read up on the Fatima incident and on how, many of those not predisposed to religious belief saw a silver disc not the virgin Mary and some of the veil begins to fall away. The ask yourself this question....

"if this intelligence has used obfuscation since ancient times, to hide its' true nature, what is so different now about us as humans that would see them change that tactic? Have we say, stopped killing people en masse? ...err no.... Have we, as humans learned to live in harmony with the land and not act like some virus rapaciously eating its' way through the worlds resources with no thought for the future? err no...

The ask yourself a simple question... Why is that those civilisations that do seem to be more *in tune* with the world we live in and share, also seem to have greater understanding and contact with this intelligence.

Does it ever strike you that, to them, whoever and whatever they might be, there isn't an iota of difference between Einstein and Billy Jo the pig farmer from Fern Creek? In cosmic, terms we might well be viewed, as a race, as nothing more than amusing hicks which brings us back to. The people who run this world, be it politically, socially, or scientifically, in general, simply can't handle even contemplating that thought, so it's buried.

Technology merely marks us out as driven and curious, It doesn't actually guarantee we are smart in the general sense of the word. Some of the most inept people in this world, in terms of social interaction, are leading lights in the world of science and the military. Just maybe they enjoy letting the "little people" see the tech they have, in order to deliberately cheese off those who feel they have a right know such things.?

Your belief or non belief won't make an 'appeth of difference, the weird # will carry on happening whether you or I, for that matter, choose to ignore it.

Originally posted by miniatus
I believe in alien visitation mainly for two reasons..

1. Probability favors aliens exist.

No, it doesn't.

2. I've seen a UFO myself and have friends in the airforce I trust who have also had encounters.

How, exactly, did they know they were "aliens?" How did they conclude that there was no way it could be anything else but aliens?

Seriously, you have just figured this out? I am a believer of alien, but I notice a hardcore wave of alien worshippers coming and going out of ats.

To fundamently believe that ETs are gods who have created us is hogwash imo.
Aliens were created through nature (if they exist at all) and have evolved through nature (just like us)

I'm sticking with Yahweh