Why go through all the trouble?

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by mb2591
reply to post by canselmi

 

How bout the fact that jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

How about the fact that steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail.

Exactly, that's why I never understood truthers debating that lol

reply to post by canselmi


You are quite right. For 9/11 to be an inside job it would have been absurdly complex and risky and completely unnecessarily so .

The supposed motivations for the plot do not make any sense either. It is commonly alleged that this vast plot was to provide an excuse for war with Iraq and oil. But the genius plotters who can destroy skyscrapers from the pont where aircraft struck them didn't apparently have the gumption to include a single Iraqi amongst the hi-jacker patsies nor any other link to Iraq. 9/11 as an inside job was in fact a complete waste of time because the invasion of Iraq was, in the event, justified by Iraqi non-compliance with UN resolutions and alleged WMD.

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by mb2591
reply to post by canselmi

 

How bout the fact that jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

How about the fact that steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail.

Indeed, but you have seen the images of the beams sliced at an angle correct?

that alone should be evidence enough

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by mb2591
reply to post by canselmi

 

How bout the fact that jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

How about the fact that steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail.

Indeed, but you have seen the images of the beams sliced at an angle correct?

that alone should be evidence enough

Not when you know that was done in the clean-up.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by mb2591
reply to post by canselmi

 

How bout the fact that jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

How about the fact that steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail.

Indeed, but you have seen the images of the beams sliced at an angle correct?

that alone should be evidence enough

Not when you know that was done in the clean-up.

Was it?

and you know that as fact?

have you seen controlled demolitions? and you are to tell me it didn't resemble one?

This thread seems to be a summary of many the stupid ideas from the last ten years.

The worst is the 3.2 trillion.
You can’t hide 3 trillion.
You can’t put it in a bank.
You can’t spend much of it.
You can’t invest it.
It’s just a stupid ploy of some truthers.

Do any of the common suspects live like they have a few hundred billion under the mattress?
Have you seen GWB lately? He shuffles 6 inches at a time. Fat lot of good a few billion have done him.
Have you seen Cheney lately? If he had the money he would have bought a new heart.

What good does billions do for men in their 60’s? Especially when they already have millions they earned the hard way?


Stupid Stupid Stupid

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by mb2591
reply to post by canselmi

 

How bout the fact that jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

How about the fact that steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail.

Indeed, but you have seen the images of the beams sliced at an angle correct?

that alone should be evidence enough

Not when you know that was done in the clean-up.

Was it?

and you know that as fact?

have you seen controlled demolitions? and you are to tell me it didn't resemble one?

The viseo quality is not great in this but they are in the process of cutting steel during the clean-up. There are plenty of other pics of steel being cut if you care to look :-

www.youtube.com...

So far as the Towers looking like controlled demolition. Not in the least; there is no pattern of sharp detonations or flashes and the Towers obviously collapse from the point they were struck .

reply to post by canselmi


First let me restate the OP's title. "Why go through all the trouble?"

If you were a powerful elite; hell bent on creating a world government, dissolving all sovereign nations and states, instituting a world currency, and enslaving all humans for the benefit of a few.

Why not go through the trouble of creating a false-flag attack to instigate the acceleration of a long standing agenda?

But I would guess by your statements, [as well as a few others] that you guys don't really believe a small group of people can be that ruthless, conniving, well-networked, and still remain secret. Well... if you can convince the world that there are "Crazy, crack pots" called "Conspiracy Theorists" and they are mentally ill, confused, um... in general misguided and wrong.... Well then, you wouldn't have to be so secret now would you?

You would never have to censor anything... and so long as everyone buys the whole "conspiracy theorists" are insane... hell, the world will censor themselves.

Let me approach it this way. Have you ever met, dated, or married a psychopath or a sociopath? I have... don't recommend it.

Do you doubt that these individuals exist? I sure as hell hope not... for your sake.

Is it too far of a stretch to assume that these "psychologically manipulative" individuals enjoy the power they have over their prey... be it a boyfriend, girlfriend, parent, co-worker, school mate....Child.?????

I would hope common sense would kick in and you can accept that these twisted people exist.

So is it a stretch to say that a few of these people would find joy in holding office and manipulating not one... but a whole population! [ Think of the 1950's and the Mafia... which by the way... was a "conspiracy theory"]

If you have ever read ANY of the literature released by the CFR, Trilateral Commission, The UN, or closely read HALF of the bills that have been submitted for Law... you would realize that the upper elite are twisted individuals.

They view the majority of the population as soulless animals, Mr. Kissinger refers to these people as USELESS EATERS... as does many of his disciples.

I understand that most people, especially if they are loving and caring people, don't want to believe that THEIR government would do something as horrific as what happened on September, Eleventh, Two-Thousand-and-One. I for one will NEVER think that our government was involved. "WE THE PEOPLE" DID NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

To further my point... take a second and look around at our great country.... is this really OUR government? For Christ's sake... our Congress is fighting our Executive branch for following the UN's deceleration of war! Er..... sorry... it's not called war anymore... it's "a time-limited, scope-limited military action, in concert with our international partners, with the objective of protecting civilian life in Libya from Moammar Gadhafi and his forces," source

So getting back to your topic. It is not beyond the scope of my imagination; that a small, well-networked, and well funded faction of our government; would attack the very people they are being payed to protect... if they felt that their actions would somehow benefit their agenda to "unite" the world.

As an American citizen, I am now capable of being classified as a "terrorist." Mainly, because I willingly stand against the tyrannic tendencies that are being pushed through our government by FOREIGN interests!!!!!

Look at it this way... drive into the biggest city closest to you.... count the number of closed store fronts, warehouses, factories, office buildings...etc., etc., I would be willing to bet money that these buildings have been bought by corporations that are foreign to your state... and as long as they can continue paying the "appropriate" taxes... these cities will allow them to continue their grandstanding and prevention of legitimate businesses from using these neglected properties.

Regardless of whether you believe 9/11 was an inside job, you cannot ignore the fact that we are losing our Constitution. Or the fact that it is being purposefully destroyed so that a world government can move in.... OPENLY....

If you want to truly educate yourself on the events of "9/11" [or as the elites branded it in their "Rebuilding America's Defenses] "A New Pearl Harbor"... you can use the search feature on the bottom of Scribd's document display to search for the term; A New Pearl Harbor.

I hope this will help argue the side of the "crack-pots"... and thank you all for reading.

Originally posted by JJDoggie84
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

Good point... Now that every sheeples head is in the sand worrying about Al CIAda, trillions just walk out the door!

In regards to your SHEEPLE comment... please read this THREAD

People have tried to create the proverbial NWO since the beginning of time. Some have had benevolent intentions others malicious. One group or one person has tried to ‘take over the world’.

Most have failed for the same root reason. Religion. The remaining have failed for reasons like jealousy.

Everyone wants to move up one more rung of the ladder. Some will do anything to get there. Which includes dispatching the one above him. The same applies to groups.

Until you can get the group that stones one for pre marital sex to agree with the group that enjoys pre marital sex, you will never have one world order.

Originally posted by Areveli
First let me restate the OP's title. "Why go through all the trouble?"

If you were a powerful elite; hell bent on creating a world government, dissolving all sovereign nations and states, instituting a world currency, and enslaving all humans for the benefit of a few.

Why not go through the trouble of creating a false-flag attack to instigate the acceleration of a long standing agenda?

You shoot yourself in the foot with these statements.

If its a "long standing agenda", the NWO would have been ushered in during the Cold War when the world was polarized into two spheres of influence. You would not have to get every country in the world on board at the time. Just three.

Why would they not do this:

The NWO, obviously in control of both the USA and the Soviet Union use one of the many, many international incidents that could have blown up into a full war to do just that. A brief conventional war is waged in central Europe and South East Asia, pitting USA vs Soviets and Soviets vs China.

This for obvious reasons gets out of hand and a limited nuclear war is played out. The NWO's hand picked leader, be it Reagan, Gorbechev or whoever emerges as a "voice of reason", and advocates a "One World Government" in order to save humanity from complete nuclear destruction.

No one would need convincing, and the world would gladly step into line. Not one person would argue. The alternative would be unimaginable.

There is your recipe for a one world government. Please tell me why this was not done. Oh yeah, because the NWO does not exist. Not in the way you see it, anyways.

reply to post by canselmi


How many people have directly and indirectly profitted from this whole fiasco?
That should answer your question with the answer in my question.

Originally posted by AnimusInvictus
reply to post by canselmi

 

How many people have directly and indirectly profitted from this whole fiasco?
That should answer your question with the answer in my question.

That doesnt answer any questions.

After 9/11, Bush and Cheney saw an opportunity. Cheney, being the old CEO of Halliburton knew what to do. Invade Iraq.

Doesnt mean they orchestrated anything. They simply capitalized on what did happen. Criminal, yes, orchestrated no.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Areveli
First let me restate the OP's title. "Why go through all the trouble?"

If you were a powerful elite; hell bent on creating a world government, dissolving all sovereign nations and states, instituting a world currency, and enslaving all humans for the benefit of a few.

Why not go through the trouble of creating a false-flag attack to instigate the acceleration of a long standing agenda?

You shoot yourself in the foot with these statements.

If its a "long standing agenda", the NWO would have been ushered in during the Cold War when the world was polarized into two spheres of influence. You would not have to get every country in the world on board at the time. Just three.

Why would they not do this:

The NWO, obviously in control of both the USA and the Soviet Union use one of the many, many international incidents that could have blown up into a full war to do just that. A brief conventional war is waged in central Europe and South East Asia, pitting USA vs Soviets and Soviets vs China.

This for obvious reasons gets out of hand and a limited nuclear war is played out. The NWO's hand picked leader, be it Reagan, Gorbechev or whoever emerges as a "voice of reason", and advocates a "One World Government" in order to save humanity from complete nuclear destruction.

No one would need convincing, and the world would gladly step into line. Not one person would argue. The alternative would be unimaginable.

There is your recipe for a one world government. Please tell me why this was not done. Oh yeah, because the NWO does not exist. Not in the way you see it, anyways.

Well, for one: There is no way in hell the Americans of the Cold War era would allow their sovereign rights to be stripped away. They US at that time was still closed off in many regions and to even attempt an overt assault on liberty, would have been VERY bad PR.

You have to keep in mind that this war of Globalism vs. The Republic, is waged not with bullets, but the mind.

The architects of this great con anticipated; that the change necessary to fulfill their ENTIRE agenda, is one that should occur over a LONG-LONG duration. If one can slowly manipulate all areas of life... the stuff you read, eat, watch, and do... you can shape any population into whatever form you wish.

At the time of the Cold-War, TPTB, did not have the appropriate resources to consolidate the worlds food, the worlds media, but more importantly... the worlds populations under a single system. This is why America was "allowed" the freedoms to create a corporate and global empire... [do you disagree with that statement?]

As of today... we ALL eat processed food... we all watch the same five media outlets... we have supplied the weapons... we have created the much needed UN-MANNED aircraft/surveillance vehicles... We now accept the fact that a pill will fix all problems... I could go on... but I have faith you can see what I am shooting for.

As of Y2K, we had fulfilled our use and the initiation of the next phase of dominance was green lighted. 9/11 is the REASON why we have the Police State that we have today. It is the reason for the DHS, the TSA, and the PATRIOT ACT. 9/11 was used as a means to get back into the Middle-East and secure the fuel needed for the next phase of their agenda.

So to offer a rebuttal to your Cold-War argument...

Yes, the fear of mutually assured destruction would have helped get us to where they wanted us... but it wouldn't have lasted very long. We still had guns, we still believed in our Constitution, and the lessons of history in regards to both World Wars, The Civil War... but more importantly... The American Revolution...were still fresh in the minds of many.

Now days... our citizens are lucky at best if they can name the three branches of government. Let alone why they were divided as such.

To put it bluntly... if you are dependent on Google for your facts and figures to throw out in a debate... what's gonna happen when the internet is shutdown... or worse... an EMP renders all computers and cellphones... paper weights.

This my friend, is the dependency that would not have existed in the times you are using to refute my statements. People back then, not only owned books.... they memorized them!

reply to post by nightbringr


Very true.
If it were a set-up, it could have been pulled off a bit more, I don't know, realistically I would put it. It's just fishy. I'd like to see lists and pictures of the 'responsible parties' and 'supporting evidence', that would be nice if we could all get our hands on that.
But all we have are the NIST report, eye witness tesimonies, and low to high quality footage and photographs from various news sources establishing the facts that quite a few people orchestrated these attacks on multiple targets, these people have been identified and are being pursued and killed and having their bodies dumped in seas and oceans and whatnot.

But seriously, I see profit.

reply to post by AnimusInvictus


Most definitely!

A side note... while so many are screaming about 9/11 truth... the FED continues to destroy our dollar! Wall Street continues to pilfer from the National Budget... Riots apparently are the new thing to do when bored... and Americans are dying from habitual diseases.

I would say the NWO is right on course for their plans.

But then again... it could ALL be coincidence. (laughs at that one)

reply to post by Areveli


And people in these days think much more broadly.

Im not sure how old you are, but back in the 70's and 80's, i barely ever heard talk about "new world orders", the "elite" or overreaching conspiracies to control the world. Yes, people did discuss such things, but the ideas and conspiracy theories were no where as fleshed out then as they are today.

The internet allows us to come together to discuss such things, ATS being a perfect example. I do not see how a site like ATS would be allowed to run if we were in fact living in the "police state" you are we are living in. I do not see todays people as being more accepting of the "one world government" idea. In fact, i see it much less.

I honestly do not see patriotic Americans, nationalist Serbians, proud Chinese, independant Scandinavians and extremely religious Arabs all deciding to hold hands and make nice just because some "NWO" commands it. It will take no less than a world wide existential risk to do it. Its not going to happen.

Not only that, but the only way these very diverse, different people will come together is if the threat can only be averted by joining together. I dont see this being accomplished without a war, and then someone saying "Stop! If this doesnt stop humanity is at risk!". A simple economic collapse will not do it, something much more drastic will be needed.

Why is it you think that humans, who are so very different and patriotic will suddenly abandon their countries and allegiences and join together? What is the mechanism that you see making this happen?

To hell with why and who. This is about inanimate objects.

There had to be enough steel on the 81st floor of the south tower to support another 29 stories of building. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. How does fire weaken that in less than one hour when the plane impact only moved the building 15 inches?

When do we ever hear that in the media? FIFTEEN INCHES

Then the building oscillated for FOUR MINUTES.

But 50 minutes after that the entire top 29 stories break loose and tilt/rotate 22 degrees.

How many columns had to completely break for that to happen?

If this wasn't so insanely stupid I would laugh my ass off.

psik

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by canselmi

 

Your going to be fighting an uphill battle here with these people.

I agree, if anything, GW Bush and co simply overlooked clues and hints are what was coming. That was the extent of their negligence. And you make an excelent point. Why strap explosives to the building indeed when the airplanes alone would be more than enough justification? The buildings never needed to fall.

Bush and Cheney simply used what was given to them as justification to do what they wanted all along, attack Iraq. There is no conspiracy here.

The Twin Towers needed to fall. How was our government gonna hide the black boxes, have excuses for the missing gold in the basement, implant fear instantly, etc...

The fall was necessary to make it dramatic and stir up emotions. I think you are forgetting back then but if you didn't support the War in Iraq you were unpatriotic and they made it seem like it was redemption time for the victims of 9/11. Sadly, innocent people needed to die in extreme numbers so that everyone would go along without choice. Just think about if 10 people died in the buildings, would our government have total control of War of Terror? I don't think so.

reply to post by nightbringr


I think you are missing the point of NWO. You are taking it too literally...