Why U.S. Banks and Greek Debt Will be the Toxic Trigger

reply to post by nightbringr


Now if I remember correctly the FED only makes money out of thin air to give to you to pay debts if you turned your back on the FED and decided to print your own money or bonds you can buy that debt back with your own money you have made without the FED.

It's a little hard to explain but this is what America and some other countries did they printed their own money don't use gold as the backer of it though because as you know America learnt that leason as well that's why there is no gold in America.

You need to print it at a certain ratio to keep value and not go over that ratio or you start to devalue your currency you can learn this by simply googling Abraham Lincoln and other presidents who were assasinated and failed assasination atempts you will see their ideas on this.

There is also a great documentry on youtube goes for 3.5 hours but very informative called money masters hope I have answered yo reasonably well if not watch the vid

reply to post by vkturbo


Printing money to pay for austerity measures is dangerous.

In a large economy, it can work to a point. The only reason why the US can get away with printing a trillion dollars is due to the vast size of their economy. If Greece tried somthing similar, runaway inflation would be the result.

Now you may say that it wouldn't matter, especially if Greece dumped the Euro and neglected their debt payments, but they are not an island unto themselves. Greece has a massive trade deficit and import a large amount of goods. If their money is worth nothing on the world market, purchasing needed goods will become prohibitively expensive.

reply to post by nightbringr


No to forget that the US banks or financial institutions link to their economy will go down taking the rest of EU with it like it did during 2008 economic crash.

I think that Greek now have a new prime minister if I am not wrong and that he is going to take the side of the population that could mean a big default on their debt.

No good for US and EU.

reply to post by nightbringr


How do you think money was printed before the fed why do you think the US dollar was called the greenback this is from when Lincoln started printing his own money and thats what they were called. Why do you think he was assasinated? If you do it right it can work it has worked in the past as i said go through Americas history of presidents and see what the ones assasinated tried and have done.

I agree printing money of thin air is bad but why is the FED doing that now with QE1 QE2 and QE3 threatening to come in

reply to post by vkturbo


You keep pointing at the United States as an example, but the US before WW2 is not comparable to the current situation in Greece. The US back then was very much self-sustaining. They did not require a ton of trading on the world market, and in fact seeked a policy of isolationism, and self-sufficiency. If their money was subject to inflation, it did not have nearly the effect that inflation today would have on Greece. Greece NEED to trade for non-locally made product. Not to mention the size of the US economy as compared to Greece.

Rather than argue this point back and forth, why dont you put forth your idea of how you would solve the Greek crisis?

I have made my case for fiscal responsibility and needed cutbacks. What the EU is trying to get Greece to do is the most responsible, reasonable thing.

The reason it is not popular, is because it will hurt the average Greek citizen. It will not be popular, but it is sadly necissary. They cannot maintain the system they are running. One third of Greek citizens are employed by the government. It is bloated and unsustainable.

Do you suggest they simply dump the Euro, and print money? If so, you might want to keep in mind what this will do. It will make their money worthless on the world market and they will not be able to sustain their trade deficit. How do YOU propose they will pay for needed, non-locally made commodities when their money is worthless?

reply to post by marg6043


If unemployment is 9% in America I don't see why 91% of people would have such a problem supporting them.

Ragin' Contagion

Default triggers CDS payouts, and the US banking cartel is a significant issuer of credit default swaps with Greece as the reference entity. The Boyz went back to pimping risky CDS for the easy premiums...as if Lehmans, Wachovia, AIG never happened.

Treasury plans for Greece to go bust

Treasury ministers have admitted that the Government is drawing up contingency plans for a Greek bankruptcy after being warned by a former foreign secretary that the euro “cannot last”.

By Robert Winnett, Deputy Political Editor

9:05PM BST 20 Jun 2011

Jack Straw, the former Labour foreign secretary, said that a “quick” end to the single currency was now better than a “slow death”.

In an emergency debate, senior MPs from all parties demanded that Britain stand aside from a new rescue package for Greece and push for the country to leave the euro.

Some experts have forecast that a default would trigger another global crisis as banks refused to lend money to weaker eurozone countries. - Full Text

reply to post by nightbringr


The reason cut backs won't work is due to the jobs that are government jobs is spending is cut you put alot on the unemployment list so you don't succeed anything. But would have to agree with what others have said this is just a grab for all of what government has made and rely on income for the state so then money will have to be made some how and that will be taxes. This is also due to the fact government has done dodgy deals to make this situation worse and other debts being charged more than once by the banking sectors.

The reason I keep giving America as an example is because they were doing it first before bank of America was made then the second and the FED. As i said watch the documentry i suggested it is very well explained there.

Greece will default the public isn't happy with whats been happening. I have given a suggestion to what they should do. Just default on the loans and make a new currency to hell with the banks the theifs they are.

reply to post by Imhotepsol


Unemployment in America is higher than that, the numbers do not include people that has been unemployed and do not rate unemployment benefits.

This means most of the working poor.

So the real numbers of unemployment in the US will never be known.

reply to post by OBE1


They went back to the old crap of issuing trash because after the big bailout it was never a real law to stop the practices, the oversight by congress when it comes to wall street is obscene.

But have you been looking at the big pay out to many congress return on their investments? they are all crocks.

We all know who are the ones that are benefiting from the big bailout in this nation and is not us the working class.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Imhotepsol

 

Unemployment in America is higher than that, the numbers do not include people that has been unemployed and do not rate unemployment benefits.

This means most of the working poor.

So the real numbers of unemployment in the US will never be known.

here's a realistic answer to the real numbers...

The Return of the Misery Index
By Addison Wiggin

06/20/11 Baltimore, Maryland – Here’s a cheery way to begin the week. For a brief moment on Friday, the “misery index” of the Jimmy Carter era reared its ugly head again.

Readers old enough to recall “the misery index” will remember it was computed by adding the inflation rate to the unemployment rate. On Friday, CNBC posted, and Drudge picked up, a brief story about how the misery index stands at its highest since 1983:

9.1% unemployment + 3.6% consumer price index = 12.7% misery index

What the story did not explain is how government has gamed both elements of the misery index in the ensuing 28 years.

People who’ve given up looking for work no longer count as unemployed. Statisticians make the rising price of steak go away by assuming you buy less steak and more hamburger. And so on.

John Williams at ShadowStats.com still runs the numbers the way they were in those bygone days. Let’s recalculate…

22.3% unemployment + 11.2% consumer price index = 33.5% misery index



Read more: Economic News and Ideas on Debt, the Market, Gold, Oil, and Investing. dailyreckoning.com...

the emphasis tags were mine....

reply to post by St Udio


Even I have cut down on many things and is not due to unemployment but the raising cost of living, the same way that the government play with numbers on the unemployment figures it does with the GDP, so they can come around and claim that the economy is doing find, they can not claim failure after so much tax payer dollars has gone to the dirty hands of the crocks in this nation with the bailouts.

I can not wait until tomorrow to see what the Chairman of the fed has to say about the overall US economic health report to come around 2 in the afternoon.

Specially with the Greek financial crisis looming over the US too big to fail and the fight to raise the debt ceiling.

If I were to see Obama one day in the streets, i'd tell him it was simple.
On one hand, he has factories, houses, paddocks, industries all across America.. Abandoned, dead.. quiet.. boarded up.

On the other, he has people, millions of them. Smart people, capable people all UNEMPLOYED!

Put the two together with the last of the money that’s left in the nation.. and have them produce, provide and pay off!

because Mr. Obama, I guarantee you, if you give it to the bankers and wall street, you'll never see it again!

reply to post by Agit8dChop


It's just pitiful to see so many empty warehouses and building around, gathering grafity, because globalization help the crock in this nation to make profits everywhere else in the world with slave labor.

But as those developing countries are emerging with a new middle class the cheap labor is going away.

Yes, it will be nice to rebuild our once bread and butter of the middle class, the industry sector, but we may have to become isolated from the rest of the world and buy what we produce to support the industries.

With corporate America in our politics and sitting in our congress, that is something of a dream right now, perhaps the best viable solution to our economic woes but something unthinkable to those elite powers in charge, after all they just keep leaching the tax payer when their own wealth is in danger, my husband just told me yesterday that after Pelosi gains in the markets (or her husband) after the bailouts is many more in congress that has gotten big returns for their efforts toward their masters in the financial business.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


When minimum wage here is so much higher than in China, which can afford to run these same factories at pennies to the dollar compared to the USA, it does not make financial sense to run these industries.

Its not a matter of not wanting to open them, its a matter of not being ABLE to open them. If the product does not sell because it priced at twice what a comparable Chinese product is, there is no point. Perhaps a solution would be to make anyone on social assistance who is capable of working to work these factories. But of course, in todays climate of socialism, people will cry foul and demand more pay, thus putting themselves out of work.

Massive tarrifs on imported products would work to make people buy locally made, but does the US want to walk the road of isolationism again? Maybe its for the best, at least in the time being.

reply to post by vkturbo


You are failing to address key issues.

1. If they ditch the euro and print their own money, and especially do nothing to control their runaway spending, their money will be worthless on the world market.

2. They are not like the US in the video you keep presenting. They are not self-sufficient and must trade on the world market to acquire needed commodities. When their money is worth nothing, they simply cannot buy these and their economy will be MUCH worse than anything they are facing now.

I truely do not think you grasp economics. You keep pointing to a video as an example of what you want them to do, but Greece in 2011 is nothing like USA of the 1800's. The differences are so vast to make the video pointless.

Please simply explain how if you were the President of Greece you would solve the trade deficit issue when your money is worthless?

When this all started, a freind came to visit who has relative's who live in Greece. They are self sufficient country folk who raise their own food. When I asked how this finacial debacle is effecting them, she told me it's not effecting them in the least. BECAUSE they raise their own food and take care of each other. Family and neighbors band together and help each other. FEEL what I am saying to all of you. You are not truely free until you can raise your own food. THIS is the new paradigm! Self sufficiancy and LOVING cooperation with those around you! BEAUTIFUL! Peace.

reply to post by HUMBLEONE


The rural living citizens will hardly notice this at all.

The city dwelling Greeks are another matter entirely, and they will suffer.

I agree with your message of self-sufficiency, but it simply is not an option for most urban-dwelling people. If i could grow a garden and feed myself, i would. I have a small yard and at best, could supplement my diet with some herbs and a few veggies, but sadly no more than that. Im captive to my local markets.
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reply to post by HUMBLEONE

...Family and neighbors band together and help each other. FEEL what I am saying to all of you. You are not truely free until you can raise your own food. THIS is the new paradigm! Self sufficiancy and LOVING cooperation with those around you! BEAUTIFUL! Peace...

thats all well and good for those who have planned the self reliant pace of life all along...
they are few and far between... look at the numbers of current people living in 'Intentional homes / communities... or those living in ECO-Villages'...

i'd guess the total population might be 50,000 max here in the USA

the demographic with a sustainable bug-out compound or already in the self-sustainable life may match the 50,000... that out of a population of over 350,000,000 here in the USA


look at the voter lists & returns, the blue democrat centers are urban & metro areas... so unless there's a seachange in lifestyles... your ideal dream will remain just that for the vast majority that have nary a notion to be self-reliant/self-sustaining...

now Greece may be different but i don't think so... they too are addicted to 4th generation social connectivity devices and on line gaming, ammusement and such.


i guess my cynicism grows as i age, or as i become sage.... which is it?