Yes, I know Rats are vermin, but - alternative removal/deterrents please!

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


OMG

I am an avid animal lover but those poor little bunnies

God, rats are vicious.

I remember back in nursing now, over 40+ years ago we had a woman brought into a city hospital, an old woman and she was going potty in the middle of the night and sat down and there was a rat in the toilet, it bit her and she had to have rabie shots.............she was really old and almost had a heart attack.

We also had to give her a valium to calm her down.

As much as I love animals, rats suck I guess.

In Asia rats are eaten............maybe if raised and made sure they are disease free and killed quickly and painlessly that might be a good food source if times got really bad.

I love the movie Demolition Man, in the movie they had rat burgers.

Don't know if they have enough meat on them, but some grow to the size of cats and my husband says he has seen some pretty big ones in the stock rooms at his work.

File this under Uban Survival for if TSHTF..........because it's another food source as gross as it sounds.

Amdro, used to kill fire ants, will also kill
mice and rats if spread out around their suspected entrances. (they eat it)

Cats are good too for keeping mice or rats at bay if you are not allergic to them.
Despite rumors to the contrary however, they don't always keep
away snakes. Visited a friend who had more than 5 cats living
outside and usually hung out in one particular area near the front porch
most of the time. She had called me because she had seen
a snake, and was terrified of them. In searching around, I found a nest of
copperheads happily living within a few feet from all these cats, apparently
not afraid of them and obviously not being disturbed by them.

We called a professional who relocated the snakes several miles away, etc.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

I also heard that raccoons inflicted similar carnage on stray kittens that had taken up residence in my parents yard years after the rat problems died down. My dad used to love raccoons but now can't bear the sight of them. And the county can't, either, since rabies became a problem, and eradicated them on sight if they are reported at homes.

We animal lovers have to unfortunately adjust our thinking and deal effectively when animals cross that line into vermin. We can lament all we want how at odds we have become with nature but at the end of the day, unless we are willing to suicide ourselves and cede our property back to nature, we have to maintain and defend our property, our sanitation and the safety of our companion animals. It really is an unfortunate dilemma to find oneself in if you have a soft heart for animals and generally wish to peacefully coexist. Sometimes they don't leave us with that option. It sometimes becomes a matter of us or them.

Humane trapping and relocating can work fine with some species and some relocations. But with rats and due to their phenomenal reproductive capacities and hardiness and comparative longevity, relocating them only makes them someone else's problem. Sometimes that "someone else" is an innocent, native animal.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


Starred your excellent reply. I am in agreement with you.

Have a raccoon story for ya.

On our honeymoon, camping in a tent through Canada, I fought all night long keeping the zipper down, the raccoons on the other side kept trying to raise the zipper to get in.

Raccoons will also drown a coon dog that goes after it, if the dog jumps into the water after it.

Again, while I love animals, if a wild animal infringes upon my home (or tent) I think they should be dealt with.

I hear raccoon taste good?????

Racoons can be dangerous, for example at a garbage bin if you even go near them when they're scavaging, you could be in some serious danger, even my father at 6 2, lol was not willing to take on the racoon, but joke about him a tall tale later. I would never harm one, however a survival situation is completely different.

With mice, we do live capture. And would never touch the squirrels, however. An infestation of rats or mice that won't leave or get curtailed through other methods does need to be dealt with, though in that case poison would not be my choice.

Rats, such as the ones surrounding that toddler would need to be dealt with. If we had rats around we'd probably have bigger live cages and nets, and attempt to gas them with the exhaust of the car or something, would read online for something that would akin to them going to sleep, rather than dying in pain. Its not something I really want to deal with. Perhaps clubbing them over the head is more merciful than rat poison/arsenic or those killing traps. Also something that discourages them from the property altogether. Cats have been mentioned but terriers are quite good at keeping vermin away, at least my friends was, but they also are eccentric and we didn't want one.

My in laws have troubles with squirrels ripping off the ventilation screens and infesting their attic. They got into a box of my husband's old college papers and somehow found my notes from my History of Nutrition class that I had loaned to my husband when he got stuck taking that class, and the squirrels shredded them and pooped on them. I lost count of the times I fell asleep in that class. It was some elective I got stuck taking. Many times I was tempted to shred and poop on my notes, too. Although I admit I learned a lot about how food is processed and that has served me well all these years later when it comes time to pick out quality pet food.

The pest control guy told my in laws to set out some mothballs where they were entering and that seems sufficient to have driven them off. I know people are concerned about naphthalene being a carcinogen, but I wonder if short term use of them to break rats of the habit of going to a certain location would be okay and effective for the OP's problem. I don't think any animals would eat them. The smell drives everything away, except all the old ladies in my family who used to use them. My gran lived to be 99 and she practically stored herself in mothballs, so I don't know how dangerous they really are.

Holy cats, I know I'm way off topic but out of curiosity after all these years I googled history of nutrition and the name of the professor who taught it. The dude is still going strong after all these years and he was no spring chicken twenty three years ago. He is now Professor Emeritus. Isn't Emeritus a fancy designation meaning old as the hills but still cookin'? He was awesome and he did his best trying to make the history of corn flakes sound riveting. Alas, I feel the story of those cornflakes met a fit ending over twenty years later.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Thanks for the star. Oh gosh I wish there had been a video cam set up outside your tent to record those raccoons in action! That is funny, now that it is over and you are safe and sound from those marauding bandits. Now we know why they wear masks!

I have a good deal worked out with my cat, and a big crow that hangs around.

The cat goes hunting all day, brings the mice onto the back porch - which is enclosed with a cat entrance, I throw the dead mice out onto the driveway, and within an hour, the crow comes and gets them. It's like he's waiting.

I think the crow leaves the cat alone, because he knows the cat's feeding him.

As a man who got hissed at yes hissed at by a freaking possum destroying my grill. Rat's the size of house cat's that can munch my leg off good riddance to them, just remember setting out poison for rodents can effect dogs and cats, so I agree that you should find other methods. One of my buddies dogs just died that way that's why I bring it up.

reply to post by Unity_99


Yes, I don't know what that mother was thinking that is why I posted that picture

There is no way I would have allowed any of my three sons near a rat much less a bunch of them drinking in a big bowl of milk. Imagine the filth as rats do their business everywhere.

I think this was probably in India.

And while I do not mean offense to any Indian customs, rats and mice do carry disease (think of the fleas on mice and rats that carried the black death that killed almost half of Europe).

Once I was baby sitting other people's kids in order to stay at home with my kids.

I found a little field mouse in my kitchen and yes I killed it, very quickly - I cornered it and hit it on the head and killed it instantly.

To this day I feel very very bad about this, but there was a new born baby sleeping in the next room, I could not pick up and leave the house with the mouse in a box................unless you drove miles away it would have come back and that was the only way I could solve having a wild animal that possibly was carrying diseases.

Now, please don't rag on me anyone, I still feel very very bad killing this poor little creature.

He/she did not suffer, I made sure his/her's death was quick and painless (hit it on the head with a hammer that was on the dryer).

This act was one of the things I carry with me for the rest of my days, the killing of a cute little field mouse. Other than bugs, he/she (notice I don't call animals "it" for they are all beings) this is the only animal I have killed and I am not proud or happy about it.............I felt at the time I had no choice.

But, I was responsible for that new born baby sleeping in the next room, as well as my own children and some other little ones napping.

I still feel bad about taking the life of such a cute little creature.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain




And no joke, we had bread, doritos, hohos in the tent with us and those little suckers fought all night long trying to get that damn zipper up............I had to fight all night long with them varmints.

I could hear them chattering outside too and was scared, while my husband just slept away. A thin piece of canvas between us and "nature".

Ahhhhhhhhh my camping days are over, even a cheap motel (as long as it's clean) is the way to go now.......no more tents for me.

Found this interesting article that you cat lovers may want to read.........if you have a cat, DO NOT LET THEM OUT AT NIGHT!!!!!

OLYMPIA, Washington (AP) — A fierce group of raccoons has killed 10 cats, attacked a small dog and bitten at least one pet owner who had to get rabies shots, residents of Olympia say.
Some have taken to carrying pepper spray to ward off the masked marauders and the woman who was bitten now carries an iron pipe when she goes outside at night.

"It's a new breed," said Tamara Keeton, who with Kari Hall started a raccoon watch after an emotional neighborhood meeting drew 40 people. "They're urban raccoons, and they're not afraid."

Tony Benjamins, whose family lost two cats, said he got a big dog — a German Shepherd-Rottweiler mix — to keep the raccoons away.

One goal of the patrol is to get residents to stop feeding raccoons and to keep pets and pet food indoors.

Lisann Rolle said she began carrying an iron pipe when she goes outside at night after being bitten by raccoons when she tried to pull three of them off her cat Lucy. She obtained rabies shots afterward as a precaution.

"I was watching her like a hawk, but she snuck out," Rolle said. "Then I heard this hideous sound — a coyote-type high pitch ... It was vicious. They were focused on ripping her apart."

The attacks have been especially shocking because raccoons came within five feet of cats without any problem in previous years, Benjamins said.

"We used to love the raccoons. They'd have their babies this time of year, and they were so cute. Even though we lived in the city, it was neat to have wildlife around," he said, "but this year, things changed. They went nuts."

In one case five raccoons tried to carry off a small dog, which managed to survive.

The attacks, all within a three-block area near the Garfield Nature Trail in Olympia, are highly unusual, said Sean O. Carrell, a problem wildlife coordinator with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife, adding that trappers may be summoned from the U.S. Department of Agriculture to remove problem animals.

"I've never heard a report of 10 cats being killed. It's something were going to have to monitor," Carrell said.

Meanwhile, residents have hired Tom Brown, a nuisance wildlife control operator from Rochester, Washington, to set traps, but in six weeks he has caught only one raccoon. He and Carrell said raccoons teach their young — and each other — to avoid traps.

Brown said he had seen packs of raccoons this big but none so into killing.

"They are in command up there," he said.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d3d72997ecf6.jpg[/atsimg]

Source: www.usatoday.com...#

reply to post by snowspirit


A star for such a interesting post..............yes nature's way.

Watch out for your cat though.

My vet said that cats allowed out doors can get heart worm and if a cat gets it - it's fatal, they cannot cure it so you might want to make sure and give your cat heartworm medicine every month.

Also, I watched a video where a woman had a cat that was abducted (grabbed and taken up up and away) by an owl............so be careful with your kitty.

Now our Jack cat that lives with my son in his town house is 26 pounds (he's chubby but not real fat just a big fellow) would be kind of hard to pick up and carry off.

Still He is around 20 years old and stays in the house. Jack is a gray domestic cat with pretty yellow eyes, and will come and sit on command.................

We've had Jack in our family now about 18 years.

reply to post by Golithion


Star for reminding people not to use poison because a stray dog or cat might get a hold of and die from that.



My husband found a posseum and he said it looked dead, so he threw it in the trash.........well came back a couple hours later and the thing was starring him in the face so he picked up a pair of long long long thongs and threw the big sucker out in the field across the street for the coyotes to get.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/90960defa865.jpg[/atsimg]

I didn't see him/her but my husband said they are mean looking suckers.

We have about a 200 acre field with some trees across the street from our house owned by the Village and there are all kinds of critters in through there..........even a turtle the size of a dinner plate my husband and dog came across the other day.

Years back, driving home at midnight after work, I stopped at a stop sign right near our house to see a armadillo (yes it was a armadillo crossing the street towards the field) and I am located in Illinois.

This is exactly what it looked like and the headlights reflected off it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/09abadbb3db2.jpg[/atsimg]

Just a couple of things - coons can be nasty critters. I've had 2 cats nearly killed by them. One needed surgery and 30 stitches and one 20. They are also prone to carrying parasites, etc. But I digress...

Rats - if you don't want poison or a kill trap you can use a live catch trap as others have suggested.

Otherwise - You are down to - Cats (obviously). Snakes - my uncle always encouraged a few big black snakes to hang around the barns for this reason. Dogs - a small terrier, cairn, rat or jack russell. Rat catcher was one of the original jobs of these dogs.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


In a situation of protection this is necessary, we don't have enough of a problem to not try other methods and the killing traps and poison are inhumane. I think clubbing over the head is one option. We release mice, and don't touch squirrels or coons. But if rats were around, not sure they would be off the hook. That picture gave me nightmares,that is taking things too far. I felt it was India too. And this may be a spiritual belief, not to harm anything, yet there is so much inequality, yet they allow harm and inequality to humans, so it seems the priorities are a little wrong. Children should come first.

I am very grateful, our problems have been much less severe.

I think a terrier is a great solution, they do kill, but many critters will just vacate swiftly, they know they're in trouble.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Also, I watched a video where a woman had a cat that was abducted (grabbed and taken up up and away) by an owl............so be careful with your kitty.

Yes, she's a little thing too, less than 10 lbs. About the size of the crow that we've been supplying with the mice. She always comes in by dark, and luckily comes when called. I worry about coyotes and foxes though, sometimes they're seen in the daytime. Thankful for lots of trees for her to climb.

Luckily, it's a colder climate up here, heartworm is very rare here, but with the warming I have to start watching, I've discovered 2 ticks this year, on the dogs.

She's stuck indoors 8 months out of the year, because of the cold, and for some weird reason, if a mouse is in the house in the winter, she won't touch it. I've seen one run right past her. The mice steal the dog food, and transport it to hiding places all around the house

I hate the spring loaded traps, only because to set them, you're risking broken fingers (or at the very least, extreme pain). Also, I had a squirrel come in last winter, I wouldn't want to see it hurt in a trap, they're just too cute. So in the winter if I see the odd mouse run by in the house, I try not to worry about them. If they're eating the dogs crunchy food, at least they're not chewing through the house wiring.

Also, there are no children around here, which is why I'm able to ignore the odd mouse in the house. I've never seen a baby mouse inside. When my truck driver husband comes home every couple of months, is the only time traps get set, and only where the cat cannot get to - like inside the cupboards.

Not afraid of mice, but I am fearful of the extreme pain of the mouse traps

See, that article about raccoons changing to a vicious nature is exactly what I saw. Many years ago raccoons and cats would be seen sitting out together in the yard in relative peace. Years ago it was possible to sit on our steps and watch raccoons waddling around the yard at sunset. Then something changed and now they are little gangsters, completely unsafe to be near at all. What caused that? Are they all infested with a type of slow acting rabies now? Or are they too successful and overpopulating within their territories to the point it's driven then to aggression? It's so odd. I think I read badgers and foxes have become similarly aggressive in the UK, as they have adapted to urban life.

Here in my part of the U.S foxes are playful or shy but not aggressive. I dont know if it's still being done, but there used to be a vet who vaccinated the foxes for rabies somehow. I was told he put the vaccine out in food.

Deer are what have become aggressive and dangerous as they have thrived. A man in the neighboring town and his golden retriever were attacked a couple of years ago by a buck and the man was gored in the leg. I myself have been charged at by a buck in our woods at night when walking my huge hound mix. I ran all the way back to the house so fast I didn't even think to scream, I was saving my breath for running. I had no idea for sure what it was that chased me until my husband and I went out in daylight and saw the hoof prints. I joked that moth man was on the loose. My dog is no pixie, she has a mix of hound breeds in her that can take down a deer. Yet even in her company, the last couple of years the situation has escalated to the point that even the females will stare us down and not move until we get almost within arm's length. And when they do move, they don't flee as in times past. They just kind of saunter off. It's a bit unnerving because it goes against what I have always thought was natural and I no longer know what is safe. And this is happening not just in new neighborhoods encroaching woods and driving animals out of their habitat, but in my in-laws neighborhood that has been cleared and settled and urban since the early 1900's. My in-laws joke that these days they don't know who they are more likely to be mugged by, street gangs or a herd of deer!

Earlier this spring the county had a controlled hunt in the woods with highly trained shooters and I have yet to see signs of deer since then. I can only hope this reprieve lasts. It's the first time I've been able to grow a few veggies since I moved here. I never thought I would ever approve of hunters shooting defenseless animals. Even now I am still absolutely torn about the relief I feel over the apparent success of this last hunt.