The Autopen: Obama's controversial use of the autopen

Curious to know different perspectives on the use of the autopen by President Barack Obama this past week while he was in Europe.

If you're unfamiliar with the autopen, you can learn about it here: www.examiner.com...

They could've easily faxed it to him where he looked it over then signed it but since a fax copy cannot be submitted to the public law record so when they recieve the fax that then activates the autopen.

reply to post by ChicagOpinion


In my personal opinion the auto-pen should be saved for the us fitness (i know contradiction) awards and those preprinted letters he sends to children in school, not for laws. It's especially disturbing that it was used for the patriot act reaffirmation. It's an unjust law to begin with but to not even have signed it personally is insulting to everyone affected (namely the entire u.s. population). For an issue like this we should discount the signature and do away with the policies it continued. If he can't sign them with his own hand they obviously aren't worth the time and funding to continue. Just my tame two cents (cause that p.a. horse has been beat harder than a pedo in general pop already).

reply to post by ChicagOpinion


Oh, for crying out loud!!!

....To say nothing of value. After the Autopen was adopted by US presidents (LBJ was a big user, as was Nixon and everyone since) it found new markets among celebrities. It really is hard to sign your name for hours and hours, but maybe not so hard as disappointing one's fans. So by the late 1960s many famous people had their own Autopens churning out signatures for the people. And while Autopen signatures from presidents and business leaders had been accepted at more or less face value, they did not have to deal with the invisible hand of the collectibles market. An Autopenned document may be good enough for the Department of Defense....

www.cabinetmagazine.org...

reply to post by weedwhacker



Thanks for posting the link to the article about the autopen, but I agree with J35sus when he writes that it should not be used on signing the laws of the land. If they won't accept a fax as the final document, why would they accept the autopen. They are both similar forms of facsimile! By sending a fax, at least Obama could have affixed a real signature.

reply to post by weedwhacker


It may be acceptable by the DOD but it should not be acceptable by the public when the document it is used on is the very laws that govern them. The entire basis is faulty, if it's not a personal signature with some kind of verification, who's to say who is actually signing these laws? The president said in a recent release that he wouldn't sign the NDAA if it was passed with amendment 50, with this recent action I don't doubt his words, the autopen will sign for him.

reply to post by ChicagOpinion


So you are saying that even though this is a normal practice of US presidents, even citing LBJ, Obama still should not have done it.

My opinion on the autopen is that it finally pulled the race card out of the deck and put it on the table for you. You can hardly get more transparent than to say a guy is wrong for doing something all the other ones did all the time too just because it is him doing it without having a reason.

Presidents do not show birth certificates.
Presidents have been saying "'67 borders" for decades.
Presidents have been using the autopen with great regularity.

Obama does all these things and there is just something still wrong about it. I think I know what is wrong.

Originally posted by j35us
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

It may be acceptable by the DOD but it should not be acceptable by the public when the document it is used on is the very laws that govern them. The entire basis is faulty, if it's not a personal signature with some kind of verification, who's to say who is actually signing these laws? The president said in a recent release that he wouldn't sign the NDAA if it was passed with amendment 50, with this recent action I don't doubt his words, the autopen will sign for him.

Do you honestly believe there is a law with Obama's signature on it but he does not know what is in the law? Are you suggesting they are passing laws with his autopen in secret while he is out of the country and while we are all discussing it on ATS, Obama will never know?

Can you be clear as to what the actual problem is here besides just a reason to be mad at Obama?

Thanks for that info. I had no idea what the autopen is. This president does everything in a wierd way. I hope Ron Paul hit that crap with a hammer when he becomes president.

reply to post by Antiquated1


Where did anyone write that they agree with other presidents using it?

It all depends on what was signed by the autopen, too. Does anyone here know what LBJ and the others signed? If it was legislation, it wasn't a good idea then, either. If it was something much less important - it's not a big deal.

Please quit acting like people are unnecessarily and constantly picking on Obama all the time. Did you ever stop to think that people didn't like what other presidents did also? That was then - this is now - we're talking about now! It's ridiculous to think that people think it's only wrong now because Obama did it. If the other presidents signed legislation with the autopen in the past, logically, the same people would have had a problem with them too. Give Obama-critics credit for being logical - some of the time, at least. Please.

I never said I agreed with any president using the autopen to do their job for them. Please don't attempt to muddle the issue by shifting the blame to racism or any kind of discontent against anything but the policies and the practices they push during their terms. Nobody but you brought up race, nobody else brought up Israel, so please refrain from turning this into a troll board. The autopen should not be used by anyone to sign documents that control a population, if he isn't up to signing his name it's not a matter of color it's a matter of dereliction of duty, just as it's always been. I've only been around for the past 5 or so previous administrations and expressed my views on the issue then as well. I'm sorry I never personally expressed it to you as proof against a supremacist agenda but there isn't much I can do about that. Now I'm just going to merely ask that we look past race because it's not the issue or the basis for this thread, and get back to the real issue of the autopen and what was sited as it's most recent use, the continuance of the patriot act.

By the way I apologize for ranting slightly there, but too often race gets dragged into debates to gloss the real issues.

How is it controversial in the slightest? People are acting like he is the first president to use such a thing... Thomas Jefferson used one, I do believe he was the first....

These get used all the time....

It's not controversial just because you want it to be...

My question for you is. Why is it okay for previous presidents to use it, but the second Obama uses it, it is controversial and some how bad?

If this is all the reason you have to dislike him... Well, then you are shallow... If you don't like his politics, so be it. If you don't like the way he has handled this that or the other, fine.

But you are giving him a hard time for doing what NUMEROUS other presidents have used in the past....

Really... The only thing controversial I can see is how people are relentless in finding the dumbest things to pick on him for... If you are going to pick on the man, go after him for something that MATTERS.

I wouldn't give two hoots if he used remote viewing, psychic crayons, or had Joe Biden scribble in his stead.

The FACT that he wants the Patriot Act to continue is telling enough about the person that he is.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
How is it controversial in the slightest? People are acting like he is the first president to use such a thing... Thomas Jefferson used one, I do believe he was the first....

When Thomas Jefferson was alive, to travel from one state to the other used to take a day or more. No attemps to surprise the people with "smart fast moves"....like that one.

Originally posted by Antiquated1

Do you honestly believe there is a law with Obama's signature on it but he does not know what is in the law? Are you suggesting they are passing laws with his autopen in secret while he is out of the country and while we are all discussing it on ATS, Obama will never know?

Can you be clear as to what the actual problem is here besides just a reason to be mad at Obama?

I'm not suggesting they are passing laws he doesn't know about, merely that they could without his direct approval. I fully believe that given Obama's voting record on similar issues he would have signed the P.A. with his own hand, I just don't agree with letting a device do it where law is concerned. Also, if a law were passed without his approval, how would he be able to dispute it? To even insinuate it would make the population lose complete faith in their leadership. It would make him look weak and out of control to other nations to go public with it. Were it to happen (as I said it's possible, not that I believe it has happened) he would be backed into a corner.

And to gimme: As I said I disagree with it's use on this level regardless of who actually does it or any kind of historical precedent. It's a mistake to employ it on any level above personal/promotional documents. At least with an actual signature the person signing has that extra second to think about the possible repercussions of what they're about to do. It may not seem like much of a difference to many others but for some it is extremely important. Machines don't have a conscience, my mere hope is that by having the actual human signature that the one wielding the pen will take some consideration.

Originally posted by j35us
I'm not suggesting they are passing laws he doesn't know about, merely that they could without his direct approval.

No, they couldn’t.

Also, if a law were passed without his approval, how would he be able to dispute it? To even insinuate it would make the population lose complete faith in their leadership. It would make him look weak and out of control to other nations to go public with it. Were it to happen (as I said it's possible, not that I believe it has happened) he would be backed into a corner.

Complete fiction, and utterly unbelievable.

This proposition that you want us to accept, that if someone had signed a law without the President’s consent, Obama wouldn’t say anything because he would look weak, is preposterous.

Why would Obama look weak? Weak because someone else committed the grave crime of using the President’s name, signature and authority, without authorization and knowledge of the President, for something that can’t be delegated to anyone else?

OK, since you are "curious to know different perspectives" here's mine:

I have no problem with his use of Autopen.

What I do have a problem with was the OBVIOUS slant in the linked op ed in opening post. The author used the term "Globe-trotting" in a negative way as if to imply foreign diplomacy is not important. I suspect it was a veiled swipe at Obama aimed at subconsciously linking him to some other famous globe-trotters who happen to be from Harlem. I saw right through it, I'm sure others did too.

/MD

reply to post by aptness


A subversion of his authority on that level would require enough support. As I stated, it's not likely, I don't believe it has happened or will, just that the possibility does exist. It is preposterous but this is also a site built on some of the most unbelievable stories and theories you are likely to ever come across. I guess I'll butcher Anselm here and merely say if it's conceivable (which it is even if it requires a lot of dirty tricks and has not happened to this point as far as I know) than it is possible. Don't disrespect me for throwing out a scenario, especially when I state how unlikely the situation is. It just goes along with skepticism, if you think of all the possibilities, the shock won't be quite so bad if it happens. I'm sorry if I wounded your sense of reason by stating it but its one of a myriad of possibilities that go along with the autopen system in question.

Only the third thread on the evil autopen, you guys are slacking.
It's been used by several Presidents, no big deal.

reply to post by Antiquated1


Other presidents have made use of the autopen, but this is the first time a bill was signed into law using it.

But now, apparently for the first time in United States history, a bill has been signed into law by autopen, at the direction of President Obama, who is in Europe on a weeklong trip.

www.nytimes.com...

There is no race card here, except the one you pulled out. It is true that right-wingers blame Obama for everything, including things his predecessors did, but this time, they are right.