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What would happen if the U.S. abandoned Israel?

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posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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People talk about how the U.S. is the only country that supports Israel. (I don't know if that's true or not.) I was just wondering today, what would happen if the U.S. just told Israel one day, "Sorry, buddy, but you're on your own now." Not that I hope they would or anything... But, if they did, what effect would that have on the U.S.? Israel? All the Arab countries in the Middle East?




posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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IMOP I believe it would be a bad situation for both Israel and the US. My reason is biblical, so I wont go into it here or know, but I would not want to be here if we abandened(sp) her. For Israel, unless God chooses to supernaturally protector her, I believe would be attacked by most of the arab countries.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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Israel is strong enough to defend herself by now against attack.

the only thing that could destroy israel is if the entire arab world came together

consider however, when the lemmings of america wake up (due to hunger) and see who is controlling her, she may attack israel herself



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Ashlar
...Consider however, when the lemmings of america wake up (due to hunger) and see who is controlling her, she may attack israel herself.


I've never understood this concept. How can a country the size of New Jersey, with a population of 6 million people, control the United States, the 3rd largest country on the planet, with over 285 million people?



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:05 PM
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Sh!t happens.

why else are you sacrificing thousands of soldiers in the desert if not for your Zionist overlords



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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Interesting question. US provides Israel with approximately 3 billion USD of grants each year, in addition to about 3 billion extra from the US from the issuance of bonds, loan waivers, and private philanthropy. Israel's 2003 GDP was 120.6 billion USD. The Israeli economy is not self-sufficient, and is primarily services-based (I'm guessing the number 1 foreign customer for services is the US). I'm not an economist, but maybe someone knows what the reduction of this amount of aid can do to an economy?

As far as the military goes, Israel would probably be able to last a while through purchases from other countries and it's own stockpiles and domestic industry. Eventually however, without US aid, its deficits would reach a point where it was no longer able to obtain credit from the rest of the world. Again, I'm not sure how long this would take or what the effects would be, but it would certainly be incentive for Israel to make more concessions to its neighbors as it would become increasingly motivated (hopefully) to trade with them. That's a best-case scenario.

My somewhat vague two cents. This report may be of interest:

Israel: U.S. Foreign Assistance (July 2004)

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:23 PM
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Here is a website about United States and Israel relations. It has a lot of information.

As for the United States abandoning Israel, I don't think it's going to happen. It seems like the United States is coming, and it probably already is, under Israel Rule. In these times, the new name of the United States should be: USrael.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by IMMORTAL
It seems like the United States is coming, and it probably already is, under Israel Rule. In these times, the new name of the United States should be: USrael.


But HOW? If Israel is controlling the United States, how is it doing so?

-Israel's land area is 0.2% the size of the U.S. land area.
Israel: 20,770 sq km
U.S.: 9,631,418 sq km
(Note: Israel's land area number includes the West Bank and Gaza Strip.)

-Israel's population is 2.1% the size of the U.S. population.
Israel: 6.2 million people
U.S.: 285.7 million people
(Note: Israel's population number includes the Palestinians living in the West Bank or Gaza Strip.)

Another geographical note -- Israel is also, quite literally, on the other side of the Earth from the U.S.

Israel does not have a self-sufficient economy, and depends on billions of dollars of U.S. aid every year. Israel might be able to survive for several years if all the Arab countries formed a military coalition to destroy it, but its military could not defend it indefinitely because they'd eventually run out of men and equipment.

Who else supports Israel in the international community other than the U.S.? The U.N. passes more resolutions against Israel than they do anyone else, so Israel can't appeal to it for help if the U.S. abandoned it... So, if Israel controls the U.S., how does it do it? One would think that, based on the facts, that it would be the other way around...



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by ThunderCloud
But HOW? If Israel is controlling the United States, how is it doing so?


Frontline did an excellent article on how the Israeli lobby function in the US. From active oposition to candidates with an anti-Isreali agenda, to the hiring of PR firms to spin events in thier favor. Their congressional lobby is on par with the NRA's in terms of influence, except it is bi-partisan.

Perhaps not in outright rule, but much more subtle influences. The media is also influenced. Remeber when the peace activist (an young american citizen) was buldozed to death, you got maybe a second page story. A Israeli soilder is shot, its front page news.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:56 PM
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ThunderCloud, you're right. based on the facts, israel does not control america, it's much more the other way around if anything. but still, Ashlar would have you believe israel JUST DOES (control us). there's nothing solid to back that belief up other then typical anti-semitism crap. Ashlar is living in a delusional world where jews are evil, and the fact that the u.s. is doing the right thing in supporting one of the only democracies in the middle east is for the sole reason that they control us.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:03 AM
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Israel donates a lot of money to presidential candidates in the USA, and when they get to be president they allocate a lot of money right back toward israel.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:08 AM
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I think Israel could defend herself for a time if the U.S abandoned her. But they would quickly lose power both in its economy and its military. They lack the resources or the funds to develop top of the line weapons without the help of other countries.


As for Israel controling America I think its the other way around. America could do quite well without Israel and Israel would soon crumble without America.Can the puppet survive without the puppet master? Or can the puppet master survive without the puppet?



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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I wouldn't say Israel "controls" the US, that sounds like an exaggeration. However, for better or worse, Israel does exert more direct influence over US foreign policy than any other nation (as opposed to those that influence our foreign policy indirectly, such as Russia and China). AIPAC is arguably the single strongest political lobbying group in the US. It's the perfect example of how best to "get your way" in american politics- organize your vote.

Another factor regarding control: I don't think America can be said to control Israel either. I feel it *should*, given the amount of aid we give them, but Israel has always remained aloof, secure in the knowledge that their US lobbyists will acquire the needed support to prevent their aid from being reduced.

-koji K.

[edit on 4-8-2004 by koji_K]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:10 AM
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To add to that, there are only 14 million Jews in the entire world. The State of Ohio has more people than that!
And, except for Israel's 5 million Jews (the rest of Israel's population is either Christian or Muslim), they're all spread out very thinly amongst the rest of the world's countries...


[edit on 8/4/2004 by ThunderCloud]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:55 AM
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The short answer is: Peace.

The deeper question is: Who benefits from our support of Israel?
Any Jew or supporter of Israel is welcome to give an honest
answer.

For most Americans, Israel is absolutely unimportant in terms
of our political, social, and cultural interests.( I request
evidence to the contrary) So, what do we gain from pouring
economic and military support into Israel while losing
our credibilty when dealing with nations in the Middle East
from whom we DO derive (economic) benefits?

It seems to me that we are between a rock and a hard place
in terms of our dealings with that part of the world. On the one
hand, we need oil to keep our economy running. On the other hand,
powerful Jews in the US see to it that Israel remains in the headlines
as a nation trying to defend itself against the hostile Arab world.
In terms of history, any nation which believes itself to be god's chosen
is asking for trouble. Also, Jews managed to lose their country for
about two thousand years, yet for the most part, they never assimilated
into any of the societies into which they moved. Why? Partly because
they were despised by the natives and partly because they despised
the natives. If any nation which allowed them in had had any sense
they would have been forced to renounce thier culture and adopt that
of the host nation. It is interesting to note that such a tiny fraction of the
world's population has so often been directly involved in so many major
human tragedies throughout world history. Today, they continue to
pay the price for insisting on being themselves. That should be thier
problem and no one else's.

My belief is that we should have a policy of neutrality in the Middle East
and pursue our economic interests there only until we find or develop
another energy source or radically restructure our society.

It is a sad paradox that Jews and Muslims have been fighting each other
in the name of their loving and benevolent God for as long as I have
been alive. Why does it seem that the more devout the culture, the
stronger the tendency to bring violence to those who do not share
the same beliefs?

Today, it seems our involvement in the Middle East is the price we pay for
our greed and our mystifying support of Israel.




[edit on 8/4/2004 by jdster]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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On the other hand,
powerful Jews in the US see to it that Israel remains in the headlines
as a nation trying to defend itself against the hostile Arab world.


Isreal is a nation trying to defend itself from a hostile arab world


"Whoever is found to have sold land to Jews, his punishment is death. It is forbidden to pray for him, it is forbidden to purify his body before burial, and it is forbidden to bury him in a Muslim cemetery."

--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti, Islamic religious leader, for Jerusalem (Yediot Aharonot, 20 May 1997)



The Palestinian National Charter, written by Arafat in 1964, calls for a "phased destruction" of Israel through violence and acquiring territory through "peaceful negotiations" to be used to launch a final onslaught against the Jewish state.


You dont get much more hostile than that.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by jdster
For most Americans, Israel is absolutely unimportant in terms
of our political, social, and cultural interests. (I request
evidence to the contrary) So, what do we gain from pouring
economic and military support into Israel while losing
our credibilty when dealing with nations in the Middle East
from whom we DO derive (economic) benefits?


You have an interesting point there. I'd like to see the U.S. have a neutral, economic relationship with all the world's countries. Unless they're trying to destroy us, of course.
We should always promote freedom wherever we can, but not at the price of our soveriegnty and safety.


Originally posted by jdster
It is interesting to note that such a tiny fraction of the
world's population has so often been directly involved in so many major
human tragedies throughout world history.


What human tragedies are you speaking of? I don't know of any before World War II...



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by ThunderCloud
What human tragedies are you speaking of? I don't know of any before World War II...


If you mean recent (relatively) tragedies,

Pogroms in Russia in 1800s targeted Jews.

Arabs who came to "Palestine" after Jews drained the swamps targeted Jews.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331

On the other hand,
powerful Jews in the US see to it that Israel remains in the headlines
as a nation trying to defend itself against the hostile Arab world.


Isreal is a nation trying to defend itself from a hostile arab world


"Whoever is found to have sold land to Jews, his punishment is death. It is forbidden to pray for him, it is forbidden to purify his body before burial, and it is forbidden to bury him in a Muslim cemetery."

--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti, Islamic religious leader, for Jerusalem (Yediot Aharonot, 20 May 1997)



The Palestinian National Charter, written by Arafat in 1964, calls for a "phased destruction" of Israel through violence and acquiring territory through "peaceful negotiations" to be used to launch a final onslaught against the Jewish state.


You dont get much more hostile than that.



The nature of the Middle East seems to be of ceaseless violence.

I think you have to rewind a bit. Jews have been resettled in Israel only since the late 1940s. Before that, it was known as Palestine and was occupied by muslims for several
hundred years. For Israel to suddenly claim the area for itself and to push the Palestinians out seems to me to be similar to former tenants of my house suddenly claiming it for themselves again and throwing me out (or worse). Of course you could argue that it WAS once Israel.
I would respond by saying that it was Canaan before then. Of course you cannot ask a Canaanite what they think because they were exterminated when the Jews took over.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 06:38 AM
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What human tragedies are you speaking of? I don't know of any before World War II...


Well, if you look at history, like anyone else, they have given as good as
they got. Israel was founded after the natives of the promised land (Canaan)
were slaughtered by the Jews.
Israel was invaded and occupied throughout its history until the Jews
were driven out and scattered, but not before one of thier own founded
a religion that was to spread Middle Eastern beliefs (i.e. monotheism) to
the West. With that came much brutality in Europe, all in the name
of Jesus.


On the other hand there were Russian pogroms and the (disputed)
holocaust. It seems that Jews tend to use these as examples of
thier unique place in history as the only nation to ever suffer so brutally.

As they control the mass media and education in the West, what else
could we believe?



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