I have thought a lot about this. What happens to the military personell, black ops researchers, engineers, secret base personell after retirement? As we know of, they are seariously monitored through there lifetime, told about the punishment ( Family, friends ..), probably overpayed a huge amount of money .. After retirement, they get old and nobody needs them, and the truth stays within them .. DIscussion questions:

1. Retired personell connected straightly to UFO stuff, the truth .. what keeps them from leeking the info? (fear of death?losing family?)
   
2. Even if you are not retired, how can you live with the truth, knowing other people are like robots, based on mass media?
   
3. What about spy thing: for example: Area51 employee for a huge amount of money taking pictures, collecting evidence somehow to reveal the truth (never happened as i know of)
   
4. Infiltrating Area51 for example, has it ever been done, or secret agent thing .. don't think so .. but why?
   

My brain is on fire, so many questions, so much information and still no answers
About the retired personell - Did the disclosure project actually succeeded somehow? I have not read about it.. all those people that where honestly telling stuf about UFO`s ..
And the last thing.. as i know of, in all this conspiracy are involved a lot of people, you can count them in thousands .. personally, i don't believe they are all feared to death/overpayment thing.. Maybe there is some higher force above all this .. a prophecy or something.. So what do you think ?



[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

Well, for starters, once youre in the fold, you never leave. That top secret securioty clearance follows you through retirement.

I doubt the area 51 employees who go to and from the base daily have any access to the real dirt there, which is underground anyway. I think the udnerground workers stay there for months, and no one knows who they really are.

The US govornment is the master of deception.

The answer is very simple

Before retirement of a top official or engineer is told what to do and not to do, he gets his final wage, and can leave his workplace, gov't residence, etc.

He can have a great life along with his family, perhaps he is advised to move somewhere else. Usually such guys get bodyguards, car, etc for a period of time, let's say for five years...

Well, he may deserve all that, after being an important servant of the government.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Well, for starters, once youre in the fold, you never leave. That top secret securioty clearance follows you through retirement.

I doubt the area 51 employees who go to and from the base daily have any access to the real dirt there, which is underground anyway. I think the udnerground workers stay there for months, and no one knows who they really are.

The US govornment is the master of deception.

Could be aliens there...

WHat about the infiltration thing? As i know of no one has tried it yet .. For example Some UFologists form a secret organisation, a large group of well trained soldiers and invade the whole thing? Why not? A guess would be that it would be a suicide to do that, once the government is informed about this infiltration.. That's only a guess .. But if the truth cannot be retrieved otherwise .. why not?

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

Actually, Istvan, thats pretty much what Im thinking. Alien craft from Roswell, maybe. Or other stuff, you never know.

The reason the infiltration would not work, is because you have no idea the level of security surrounding this stuff. I mean, the background checks, you can hide nothing from them, they are so intense. Plus, you have to work for the system and work your way up for a few years before they will even bother with you.

Society has always been the last one to know about anything, and the fact is that society can be easily manipulated by higher laws, mass media, government actions.. That just freaks me out .. no personal thoughts no nothing, we do as we are told to do, we are believing what we are told to believe in .. that's how life goes on worldwide ..

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

What is "infiltration"?!

That is the nature of the human animal, because we are social animals, and social animals always have to have a heirarchy. Solitary animals dont, they live by thier own rules.

Look at herd Animals, wolves, ect, youll see what I mean. Thats human nature.

1. Retired personell connected straightly to UFO stuff, the truth .. what keeps them from leeking the info? (fear of death?losing family?)

A few different things:
a. no evidence. It isn't like they can take anything material with them.
b. ridicule. Nobody wants to be remembered as a crazy old coot.
c. family, but not in the way you think. They likely have other family members in the military, even in covert ops, etc. who would suffer financially, etc.
d. illegal. Breaking a secrecy oath isn't taken lightly, and involves some serious jail time, in some cases, even death!
e. then of course, there is the threat of assassination.
f. well compensated. Money talks, BS walks.
g. Some of them HAVE come forward, (Corso comes to mind), but as I mentioned above, they aren't exactly walking out with "proof".

2. Even if you are not retired, how can you live with the truth, knowing other people are like robots, based on mass media?

See the reasons given above, as they apply here as well.

3. What about spy thing: for example: Area51 employee for a huge amount of money taking pictures, collecting evidence somehow to reveal the truth (never happened as i know of)

You must have never worked (or had relatives who did) in a high security military setting. Its the same reasons you don't see F-117 plans on the internet.
a. compartmentalized info, only a few know the big picture, the rest involved don't know enough to do any real damage if they come forward, and their testimony can easily be attacked (character assassination, erasing of public records - see Lazar, etc.)
b. severe security measures (retinal scans, palm scans, restricted to certain areas (again, compartmentalization), electronics to interfere with recording devices, searches, metal detectors to guard against cameras, etc.
c. all the problems mentioned in the answers to the first question above as well.

4. Infiltrating Area51 for example, has it ever been done, or secret agent thing .. don't think so .. but why?

See the answers to the previous question. For one thing though, I don't believe there are any aliens at Area 51, the base proper. The base is for just what it is claimed for, the testing of black project aircraft. There are other areas of the base however, (such as S-4, and no, not just from Lazar, but from other witnesses, and some surfaced documents - see the Security Manual) that do have numerous ties to alien-related tech research (but not the housing of aliens). If aliens are being hosted by the US, about the only paper trail shreds lead to Wright Patterson AFB.

Originally posted by Istvan
What is "infiltration"?!

Some kind of an attack or something, don't ask me im more to Lettish language than english ..

To: Gazrok //

Everything is clear about that, but i don't get about the government, for example Russia retrieves some UFO stuff from a crash, is it linked with other research facilities in other countries? You never know .. Maybe all stuff is connected in one big alien farm and researched/studied all together.
We can just guess about that.. I havee no doubts that 90% of UFO`s are man made, as i mentioned in a different thread that even Nazi`s where capable to build prototypes, maybe those are modified/studied and all the sightings are only US secret test flights ?

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

My uncle was a special ops soldier. Now retired. He had 3 tumors on his brain which they have removed. He doesn't remember much of anything now. I don't think the government is very worried about him.

I don't think, that government officials would get attacked after their retirement. More likely, that if he doesn't do anything at the first few years after the retirement, after time he will be considered as an insane old fool, and anything he will say, will no longer have credibility. He will be ignored, and nobody will remember him. This is the best way to keep everything secret, without killing that poor occupant.

Tumors removed? what's that? they didn't teach me that kinda word in english learning classes

Istvan, do you know something about the disclousure project people, the retired special ops witnesses and such, why are they still alive and walking? That's strange .. or maybe they don't have material evidence at all .. only stories, that would hardly anyone believe in..

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

Originally posted by RealityBites

1. Retired personell connected straightly to UFO stuff, the truth .. what keeps them from leeking the info? (fear of death?losing family?)
   

While purely anecdotal, it seems to me that there's a high rate of Alzheimer's and other neural problems among retired members of the military. I wish I could find some statistics to show if there really is a higher rate compared to people who never served.

Originally posted by RealityBites
Istvan, do you know something about the disclousure project people, the retired special ops witnesses and such, why are they still alive and walking? That's strange .. or maybe they don't have material evidence at all .. only stories, that would hardly anyone believe in..

[edit on 3-8-2004 by RealityBites]

No, don't know anything about that. But I guess, they had free chance to walk away, and they are doing well.

You people crack me up...

You all assume people retiring from classified project WANT to say anything.

Yes, there are non-disclosure agreements, but that so incase they change their mind there is punishment. For the most part though people who've worked on classified things do NOT want to tell others.

All the people I know who worked in military R&D or ranked highly in the CIA wish they didn't know somethings, and then consider the rest important to keep secret. So between these two things they don't tell, and the rest of us don't ask.

Most people probably wouldn't want to know given the chance anyways. People would rather live happy and ignorant than knowledgable of danger and constantly paranoid (Like most ATSers )

Thats what makes me so skeptical of people who pop up out of no where claiming knowledge of all sorts of government secrets. People like that rarely make it far in classified fields because you need to prove yourself with time in lower levels, then show a personality natural attuned to keeping secrets, then show you value the secrecy.

Are ATSers really paranoid?

I think, they are just interested. but some may really be paranoid.

To answer your question, RealityBites, a tumor is a disease. It is a growth in a part of a body that causes sickness, like cancer. Sometimes tumors are deadly and cancerous, others are not.

but what it is is an abnormal growth in the body.

I am not sure what they call it in Latvian. they didnt have that language taught in schools, only French, Spanish, german, and japanese. Though it would be a cool language to learn, seeing how it and the Lithuianian language, both closely related, are the closest modern day European languages to the original Sanskrit!