Could a new dual-currency money system solve our economic woes?

Yay, my very first ATS topic! Be gentle please.

So I was thinking about money and all its woes, and I started wondering -- would things be better if we had two money systems? As follows:

1) The first system would be like the one we have no. It would involve money used to exchange goods, services, etc. If you want to buy a house or a car, you use this.

2) The second is more like ATS "stars and flags," and it is given for reputation and status rather than physical goods. If you do something to make people appreciate or respect you, you can receive these points. And you can give them yourself to those you love, people who did you a good turn, people you think are good humans that deserve particular respect, etc.

The sysem #2 is still a little hazy and the details need to be worked out. I could see it going in lots of different ways, more than one of them could work.

But why?
The overall purpose of splitting the currency system is to separate social status from physical wealth. Right now, having lots of "stuff" is how people seek social status. Humans hunger more for social status than they do actual luxury: They buy $15,000 sofas not because they are all that more comfortable than a "normal" sofa but simply to impress their friends and make themselves respected. In medieval times, a poor knight had higher social status than a rich merchant, showing that status and wealth are not always connected.

Pursing "things" endlessly, beyond what we need to survive, has many grave consequences. Even if you don't believe in environmental stuff, the quest for "stuff" creates great spirtitual emptiness, wrecks families and communities, and keeps much of the world in poverty.

By seperating *stuff* from *status*, might it not be possible for people to have a healthier relationship to both?

We could use the "physical money" to buy our necessities. We could use "status money" to prove to others how cool we are and how much respect we deserve, how seriously we should be taken, and so on. "Status money" could be traded just like normal money, to reflect the ebb and flow of status.

It's not a perfect idea and it has lots of holes in it it to be sure, but maybe some of you smart people can flesh it out.

reply to post by Partygirl


So we would be doing things Pro Bono or bartering.

Lots of companies do this now! For many different reasons. . . usually the end result is more money though!

All good and fine until someone like Bernie Madoff comes along and rigs the whole system. Who needs status recognition anyhow? I know who I am why do I care how other people perceive me?

I thought we already had a dual-currency system:

money for the rich and crap for everyone else!

reply to post by SpaDe_


Agreed, I only truly care for one other human on the face of this planet.
The rest of them could fall off the edge and no biggie.
My kids are grown and I gave them the tols they need.
They have their own things going on and they will soon have someone or someones to care about.
Then there are my dogs, they know I'm the bees knees.
Maybe thats why I loves my doggies soooo much, they never take and never stop looking for a way to give.
Maybe we could give up all money and just be like dogs?!

Well, OK, thanks for the replies!

Even if you guys as ATSers don't care about status, you are in the minority.

Most people care very much. It's why they buy a Rolex when a Seiko keeps just as good time. This is the kind of waste I think is harmful for lots of reasons.

If we could uncouple the urge that leads people to do wasteful and oppressive things from its irrational association with piling up more stuff than you could ever humanly need, I think we would be onto something great...

Keep the replies coming, thanks again!!!!

Personally, I think that until people realize that moral character, genuine values, and human kindness are true status then we are in trouble.

As long as people feel an external thing is required to validate their status they are in trouble. I think your mind is in the right place, but you are treating a symptom so to speak.

Forgive my aside, but I believe people need to love. Love yourself because you are a wonderful human being living on this Earth. Be kind, honest, and good. Do not do this to show others, but because you know it is the right way to live.

The reason people accumulate money, things, or whatever is because they feel they are not loved. Maybe they do not love themselves, or maybe they feel they are not loved by others. Whatever the reason you accumulate to fill a void where love belongs.

No matter what you try to create it will not work. External things can never succeed in validating someone's self worth.

Money should be like your first point. It is a medium of exchange to facilitate the ease of economic interaction. You use a knife to cut something, and a cup to drink something. Money should be the same. You use money in order to execute a transaction of some kind. It is not something to desire, or a goal in itself.

I do not believe you can change money to what we would like it to be without changing what people think money is.

I think a dual money system would just make things that much easier to manipulate by those that have the power to do so.

Until people realize the only things that should have worth on this planet are food, water, and people we are screwed and enslaved.

Well I just S&F you before I even read your post just from looking at your avatar and being sucked by a pretty face. For all I know you could be a grizzly old man!

The system sounds very nice and altruistic but unfortunately unrealistic and fanciful. One of the biggest flaws I see in the socio-economic construct is that those who are worth more tend to be paid much less than their worth and those who aren't worth it are overpaid. I really think it is market dynamics, but geez, it really screws an otherwise egalitarian society.

Consider the massive salaries and bonuses by numerous CEOs. If for example, they earn 10 million in a given year, that would take someone who earns a modest 50 k salary, 200 years to earn! Many people earn more than this yet many people who work just as hard and long in often tedious menial jobs, earn much less than the 50k.

We have those who set minimum pay rise policy, themselves receiving annual pay rises well over and above the lowest paid workers, who themselves are on hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. Yes, you can't give too much to the lowest paid as it puts upward pressures on inflation, but still, the system entrenches massive socio-economic class gaps because the economy cannot afford to pay the majority while the economy can afford to spoil the few fat cats.

Some of our most humanitarian work is done voluntarily, via charities or other outreach services. These volunteers are the true good samaritans in society, not our pathetic, gutless, greedy politicians, ceo's, clergy and many of those in leadership roles. Nobody leads by example, so is it any wonder that the poorer people in our communities take whatever they can get when they can? Is it any wonder that people in struggle street protest at any benefit cuts or other austerity measures. Everyone expects everyone else to do the hard yards so they can sit back on their lards of 'fat'.

A fair society would be great, but unfortunately we are not going to see it. And while our baby boomer parents were able, with a bit of struggling and sacrifice, buy their homes outright and set their retirement plans up and take a nice pension, but the time the majority of us reach that stage, we will have nothing to show for it, and probably very little if any retirement savings or pension to feed on scraps.

Sorry I just get annoyed at the way this world is.

Kind regards.

I like and respect the fact that you are trying to make this world that extra bit easier and for us all to get along but like any system it will be ruthlessly manipulated like the one we have now. I do agree tho that there are many many decent upright people out there who are kind to one another but HEY they don’t get the headlines because if we had good and positive stuff coming out of our Radio/TV the ratings would go through the floor. And also we might start doing weird things like respecting others Lol.