Welcome to yet another thread on the case of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy - This thread primarily looking at and discussing one key
figure in this case, the suspected killer of Officer J.D.Tippit as well as the suspected killer of President John F. Kennedy himself, Lee Harvey
I've actually never really seen a thread dedicated to just Oswald in all honesty, not on ATS anyway, this being one of the main reasons why I've wrote
this thread up in the first place really, rather I've seen plenty of threads that have been made on the case of the assassination and how It could
have happened but nothing just on who did it and why exactly.
And yet people still seem to ask, "why did he do it"? "What made him carry out this attack on the President?" and further questions of this nature -
ones obviously left without answers.
I want to try and discuss these questions much further in this thread. I want to take a closer look at what kind of man Lee Harvey Oswald was, what
drove and motivated him, ask whether he really was who we think he was, what were his connections to the Mafia and particularly Jack Ruby, something
the Warren Commition strenuously denies, and of course his connections to the Assassination of Kennedy himself. If such a strong connection really
I hope to at the very least try and show who he really was and then in turn I feel a more valid opinion on him and why he would carry out this attack
can come to light. Assuming he really was responsible for this attack in the first place of course..
This being so, this thread however is a part of a much larger series of threads I'm looking to write up, mainly on the suspects of the murder of
Kennedy. These threads are listed below. Active threads are highlighted in Orange.
Please click on one of the links in orange, or instead, scroll down the page to see my analysis into Lee Harvey Oswald and his entire involvement in
this case as well as some key areas of his life which led him to being at Dealey Plaza in November, 1963 - the year of the Assassination.
- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: [color=Gray47]Did Jackie Lee Bouvier Shoot Kennedy?
- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Inside the Mind of a Suspected Killer
(This is also an Analysis into Lee Harvey Oswald as well as the Texas Schoolbook depository building shots)
- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Shots from the Dal-Tex building more plausible than the TSDB?
(This is also an Analysis into Jim Braden the possibility of shots from the Dal-Tex building)
- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: A shot from the Grassy Knoll position?
(This is also an Analysis into James E. Files the possibility of shots from the Grassy Knoll position)
- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did Johnnie Roselli Shoot Kennedy?
(This is also an Analysis into the possibility of shots from the nearby Storm Drain as well as Johnnie Roselli)
Inside the mind of a suspected Killer - Lee Harvey Oswald
(October 18, 1939 – November 24, 1963)
(As has been mentioned, this overall thread is a look inside the mind of one Lee Harvey Oswald. This being so, I'll looking to expand this to discuss
a lot of key areas prior to 1963 which shaped him and who he was as well as the events during 1963 also, and of course even certain anomalies that a
lot of people don't seem to know about. This thread is a look at Oswald, a look into the shooting of the president, what happened afterwards exactly
and much more. Thanks..)
Name: Lee Harvey Oswald (A.K.A: Alek J.
Hidell) Date of Birth: October 18, 1939 Place of Birth: New Orleans, Louisiana, United States of America Spouse(s): Marina Prusakova Date of Death: November 24, 1963 (24 years of age) Cause of Death: Fatal Gunshot wound at the hands of Jack Ruby while in police
Ok, as we all know only too well, the infamous Lee Harvey Oswald was the man, and still is the man, suspected (please bear in mind he was never
convicted - the chance was never given) of the murder of 2 individuals on the 22nd, November, 1962 - Officer J.D.Tippit, which was why he was arrested
in the first place. And also the then president of the United States, John F. Kennedy 40 minutes previously.
According to, I believe, around 4 thorough investigations into the case, Oswald has been proven guilty of both murders. Well, this being so, we,
simple researchers of the case are left with a choice. Do we just accept these conclusions, after all, their Is quite a few of them to say the least
and all seem to say the same thing, and move on with our lives and our research into this case? Or, instead, do we continue looking at the simple
facts and see if we can come to the same conclusions ourselves?
Well, I for one choose the latter, like many before me, and that's why I'm opening up this thread to bring forth some of my own analyses and
conclusions as well as those of others also. Ones which I hope would explain quite a bit about not just if Oswald was in a possible position of
killing Kennedy, but what kind of man Oswald really was and what exactly led him to be the kind of man we know him as today.
Now, first off, let me state that I'm looking to bring forth some fairly lesser known theories here, as well as discussing some fairly lesser known
information, but I'm in no way claiming anything as fact. I do hope to spur on some interesting debates though, and I hope we can come together and
come to an overall plausible conclusion here. One conclusion I, myself, have come to - this being something I will try and prove later on in this
thread - Is that Lee Harvey Oswald himself was working with the CIA all along, right up until the day Kennedy died and right up until his arrest when
he was made a patsy and Jack Ruby was ordered to kill him.
This being one of the most crucial parts of this entire case, especially as the Warren Commition have attempted to portray him as something of a lone
nut - hence the Lone Nut Theory. Again, I hope to show otherwise..
I'll continue to try and prove this theory a little later on in this thread, but for now, let's just take a closer look at just who Lee Harvey Oswald
was from an early period in his life in the hope of establishing what led this man to be the type of man he really was.
Lee Harvey Oswald, as one would expect from someone whom is said to have killed the president of the United States of America had somewhat of a
troubled childhood. His own father died approximately 2 months before he was born, leaving him without a father figure for his entire life, he was
often moved around (I believe experiencing around 7 different schools at the mere age of 12/13), his mother wasn't exactly motherly towards him and
his siblings to say the least (his brother claims they were seen as "burdens" by her) and Oswald possessed quite aggressive and temperamental
tendencies at times.
His own daughter, Rachael Oswald Porter, in more recent times describes herself as being
extremely moody and very introverted - a trait those around her claim Oswald, her father, seemed to possess also. Something which is understandable as
Oswald as a child was, as I mentioned, moved around a lot and seemed to find it somewhat difficult to make close friends thus spending a great deal of
time completely alone.
He then started skipping school on a regular basis due to this where he was subject to his first interaction with the law - he even at one point was
sent to a youth house where he received a psychological evaluation. All this at no more than the age of 13 I believe.
Here is a snippet from this Psychological report that I've managed to find which may be of interest:
SUMMARY FOR PROBATION OFFICER'S REPORT:
This 13 year old well built boy has superior mental resources and functions only slightly below his capacity level in spite of chronic truancy from
school which brought him into Youth House. No finding of neurological impairment or psychotic mental changes could be made. Lee has to be diagnosed as
"personality pattern disturbance with schizoid features and passive - aggressive tendencies." Lee has to be seen as an emotionally, quite disturbed
youngster who suffers under the impact of really existing emotional isolation and deprivation, lack of affection, absence of family life and rejection
by a selfinvolved and conflicted mother.
Although Lee denies that he is in need of any other form of help other than "remedial" one, we gained the definite impression that Lee can be reached
through contact with an understanding and very patient psychotherapist and if he could be drawn at the same time into group psychotherapy. We arrive
therefore at the recommendation that he should be placed on probation under the condition that he seek help and guidance through contact with a child
guidance clinic, where he should be treated preferably by a male psychiatrist who could substitute, to a certain degree at least, for the lack of a
At the same time, his mother should be urged to seek psychotherapeutic guidance through contact with a family agency. If this plan does not work out
favorably and Lee cannot cooperate in this treatment plan on an out-patient's basis, removal from the home and placement could be resorted to at a
later date, but it is our definite impression that treatment on probation should be tried out before the stricter and therefore possibly more harmful
placement approach is applied to the case of this boy. The Big Brother Movement could be undoubtedly of tremendous value in this case and Lee should
be urged to join the organized group activities of his community, such as provided by the PAL or YMCA of his neighborhood.
Now, It was at this point in his life that Oswald started showing signs of being a die hard communist, something we've been led to believe was the
contributing factor to why he committed the crimes he is alleged to have committed in 1963. It was also around this time though (Now aged
approximately 13 - 15) that he had decided to join the New Orleans Civil Air Patrol also (please make sure to read the next section of this thread as
I go onto explain why I believe he did this despite claiming he was a communist).
Upon joining the Civil Air Patrol, he actually went onto meet David Ferrie (one of the leaders here and one of the men whom is said to have Introduced
Oswald to the Mafia and the reason why he was eventually arrested for the murder of 2 men in the first place) - David ferrie being someone who became
a very well known name when It comes to the JFK Assassination and someone who many still believe was one of the shooters although not much can be
brought forth in favor of this theory at all in all honesty.
Here is a picture of them both together:
An image of the young Oswald in the Civil Air Patrol:
Then he went onto join the Marine Corps. An interesting decision despite claiming at around this time that he was a die hard communist, is it not?
Well, I believe I have come across an explanation for why Oswald showed signs of being a communist and at the same time why he decided to join
organisations that are actually hell bent on the demise of Communism.
Now, It was around this time in Oswalds life that he seemingly began his obsession with a man whom became his hero. This man was called Herbert
Philbrick - someone who has seemingly become very important to Oswald, perhaps filling in the missing role model Oswald was certainly without.
You see, as I said Oswald was absolutely obsessed with this man, he was his hero after all as well as being a popular figure to many American
Civilians also. It more than seems as though Oswald may have been trying to replicate the actions of his hero and in many aspects of his life and his
actions also - actions centered around communism.
I would assume that since Oswald failed to have any kind of father role model in his life, something which I believe was the reason why he was such a
rebellious child growing up, Philbrick acted as one to him. Again, remember that Oswalds own father passed away just prior to Lee being born.
Please don't forget Also that Oswald was more than serious in his pursuit of joining organisations whom's primary goal was murdering Communists,
something which can be shown here as Oswald later decided to go from joining the Civil air patrol (at a time he was obsessed with Philbrick) to later
joining the Marine Corps as I previously mentioned.
Upon entering the marines:
It doesn't seem to make sense at this point does it? Oswald had claimed to anyone who would listen that he was a die hard communist and at the same
time he displayed actions of tremendous patriotism, and what did Herbert Philbrick do to have such an impact on the life of Oswald? Well, in this next
section, I believe I can shed some light on this. Please continue reading..
- Oswald a communist? Really?? No, I don't think so
Now, It's no secret that Oswald told everyone he was a die hard communist. He told his wife, he told his mother, he told his brother, he told anyone
who would be willing to listen. But even so, I have reason to be suspicious of this and please allow me the time to explain why.
You see, not many seem to be aware of this, but as a youngster, Oswald was nothing short of being obsessed with one man - the man I briefly mentioned
above - Herbert Philbrick (see below)
Now, you might ask why would this matter in the slightest? Why would it matter who, as a youngster, Oswald was obsessed with? Well, after taking a
look at both men, certain odd similarities seem to appear, similarities which could tell us a great deal about Oswald's true intentions in some of his
activities, again, as I already mentioned - ones which we have been led to believe mean one thing when in reality, It more than likely means something
You see, It was around 13 - 15 that a young Oswald began learning about Philbrick (Approximately 1953) and what he did to gain his fame. It was also
quite conveniently at around this time that Oswald started to show signs of being a "commie" - at one point getting into trouble at school for
refusing to salute the flag. It was also at this time that he started to show interest in the civil air patrol also. Coincidence?...
Well, to gain a better understanding of this, we must firstly learn about Philbrick. And quite simply he was hailed as a true American hero at the
height of his fame - around the time Oswald showed interest in him. How did he gain this fame you may ask? Well he led 3 very different lives all in
all. The first of which was as an Average American, the second of which was as a spy working for the FBI and the third was a "pretend die hard commie"
infiltrating communist groups of interest.
Particularly the Communist Party USA between 1940 and 1949 - something he managed to do with a great deal of success. He even convinced those closest
to him in the world that he was in fact a die hard communist despite in reality, he was the complete opposite. Opposite in the most accurate form
actually. I believe at one point he even joined the Young Communist League also - Something that, as I understand it, Oswald conveniently attempted at
one point during his youth although never pursued seriously of course.
It seems Oswald was merely mimicking his hero here and in many other instances also and over the years these things have been twisted around by those
whom could benefit from this being twisted around, in order to make a certain profile suitable for someone whom just shot the president of the United
States - It never really had anything to do with Oswald having a particular love for communism, he hated it. Just like Philbrick did.
Although I believe he hated communism, like his hero, Oswald remained to act upon the opposite still - particularly in the Marine Corps. Here's a
snippet of what one of his "army buddies", Richard Dennis Call, said about him:
Although members of the unit often had discussions on foreign affairs, Oswald sledom, if ever, participated.
During this time, Oswald was studying Russian. For this reason many members of the unit kidded him about being a Russian spy; Oswald seemed to enjoy
this sort of remark. At that time I had a phonograph record of Russian classical pieces entitled "Russian Fireworks." When I wold play this record,
Oswald would come over to me and say "You called?"
I had a chess set which contained red and white chessmen; Oswald always chose the red chessmen, making some remark to the effect that he preferred the
"Red Army." In connection with this general joking about Oswald's interest in Russian, he was nicknamed "Oswaldskovich." However, I do not recall
Oswald's making serious remarks with regard to the Soviet Union or
These sort of remarks were well known to have occurred on a regular basis - something Oswald seemingly didn't do much to stop at all - and most, if
not all, who came into contact with him knew of them. Here is what another army buddy, Erwin Donald Lewis, once claimed about him:
Oswald, a radar operator, was very quiet, kept to himself, and did not appear to have any close friends. To the best of my knowledge, he seldom
left the base.
It was a matter of common knowledge among squadron members that he could read, write, and speak
It seems if anything, Oswald was more than happy for these kinds of comments to continue and was at the very least, happy to let it be known that he
had certain connections to communism etc..
As well as this though, Oswald was said to have been given particularly special missions while in the Marines also - It was said that while stationed
at the Atsugi naval air station in Japan, in 1958 - 1959, Oswald received one of his very first intelligence missions. It seems that some of the local
prostitutes were passing on intelligence to the soviets, or they were suspected of such things anyway as many of the marines acted as customers for
them and were often asked suspicious questions by them.
One of Oswald's first missions was to infiltrate them, and find information. Owen Dejanovich, one of the marines stationed with Oswald, once reported
in the popular PBS documentary about Oswald, Titled: Who was Lee Harvey Oswald, that he saw Oswald heading to a designated "off-limits" area with a
Eurasian woman - one whom he more than likely to gather intelligence from.
It seems that Oswald was charged up to 100 dollars a night by this prostitute and at the same time his entire salary per month was at the time less
than 85 It's claimed. If this was an Intelligence mission It's claimed Oswald was being aided financially by his superiors for it.
Please take the time to read a snippet from this fascinating Interview of David Bucknall with the well known researcher, Mark Lane. Some startling
revelations appear, if true, which could show some light on exactly why Oswald was behaving the way he was, and going to Off-limits areas as well as
why he eventually led to discharge from the military and defecting to the soviet union only to later return disappointed upon stepping off the plane
to greet his brother in 1962 (well, his brother claimed upon meeting him that he seemed disappointed there was no media report about his return - all
seemingly explained below).
Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his
discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell…
Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told
Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese
woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2
program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man
dressed in civilian clothes.
The man, a “security” or “security-intelligence” operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told
that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the
Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently
encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman
Regarding Oswald’s tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an
intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at
the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against “Communists” in Cuba. Oswald
was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had
taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon
and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he
would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.
Notice something particularly interesting about the last portion of this interview? Oswald would soon to be discharged from the Marine Cops to be sent
to the Soviet Union on an Assignment - And defect here he most certainly did...
- The Defection to the Soviets - Was he working with the US Government all along?
An image of Oswald around the time of his defection to the Soviet Union in around 1959.
In September 1959, after discharging from active duty, Oswald now began to make plans to travel to the Soviet Union, something David Bucknall claimed
he was informed to do as It was an American Intelligence mission - something which makes a great deal of sense upon looking at how long Oswald spent
here, who his acquaintances were, where he wished to travel to exactly, and of course due to him being able to return to the US again in the future
with extreme ease despite technically being a traitor to the country. Oh, and along with a Russian wife and child.
This will be explained in a bit more detail later on in this section of the thread, for now though, let me explain Oswald's trip. Firstly, Let's not
forget that Oswald was said to have been given money to aid him in one of his previous missions in Atsugi, Japan. Therefore, It isn't totally out of
the question to at the very least suggest he had been given money for this mission also - assuming this certainly was a mission as It so seems.
The reason I bring this up now Is it's said that Oswald, according to records, had the maximum sum of around 200 dollers in his possession - he
himself claimed on the contrary that he had saved well over 1500 and had that in his possession. So one can at least assume he may have been
aided in his travels now like previously.
His travels were quite varied also It seems. It was very shortly after he discharged from the military that he had applied for a passport at the
Superior Court of Santa Ana, Calif. I believe his application was to leave the United States stated on September the 21st to attend the Albert
Schweitzer College in Switzerland and the University of Turku in Finland, and then to travel in Cuba, the Dominican Republic, England, France,
Germany, and also Russia Itself.
By the 14th of this very same month, his passport had then been issued and he arrived in Fort Worth where he had lived. By the 17th, Oswald filled out
a "Passenger Immigration Questionnaire," in which he stated that he would be abroad for 2 months on a "pleasure trip".
He then left for France shortly afterwards, and arrived in early October. Then he left for England as soon as he arrived. I believe he then told
English customs officials in Southampton that he had $700 left and he planned to remain in the United Kingdom for 1 week before proceeding to a school
in Switzerland. But on the same day, he flew to Helsinki, Finland.
Soon after arriving here, he applied for a Russian Visa as this was one of the quickest locations a visa could be obtained quickly. It was approved
and was made valid valid until the 21st of October. Oswald then finally arrived in Moscow on the 16th of October, 1959.
Upon arriving though, He seemingly made no plans to leave. I believe this is a letter Oswald wrote on the same day of his arrival in the Soviet
It translates to:
Oct. 16, 1959
To the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.
I Lee Harvey Oswald, request that I be granted citizenship in the Soviet Union. My visa began on Oct. 15, and will expire on Oct. 21. I must be
granted asylum before this date, while I wait for the citizenship decision.
At present I am a citizen of the United States of America.
I want citizenship because; I am a communist and a worker. I have lived in a decadent capitalist society where the workers are slaves. I am twenty
years old, I have completed three years in the United States Marine Corps, I served with the occupation forces in Japan. I have seen American
imperialism in all its forms.
I do not want to return to any country outside of the Soviet Union.
I am willing to give up my American citizenship and assume the responsibilities of a Soviet citizen.
I had saved my money which I earned as a private in the American military for two years, in order to come to Russia for the express purpose of seeking
citizenship here. I do not have enough money left to live indefinitely here, or to return to any other country. I have no desire to return to any
other country. I ask that my request be given quick consideration.
Lee H. Oswald
As well as this letter above, Oswald shows other signs of having no intention to leave as he previously told his designated tour guide - He was issued
a tour guide called Rimma Semenova Shirakova, age twenty-two, as he was travelling as a Deluxe class tourist - that day that no had no intentions of
In Rimma's account as described by Norman Mailer in Oswald's Tale (pp.44-45) (he only paraphrases her), Oswald told her did not want to return to
the US--there was no sense to it. His mother had remarried and was no longer interested in him. Nobody was interested in him. When he served as a
Marine in the Far East he had seen much suffering and the US had fomented unjust wars in which he did not want to take part. She had the impression
that he had seen combat. He had read that the Soviet people lived good, useful, and very peaceful lives and he had come here to see this for himself.
Now he wanted to stay, he repeated. This was a proper country for his political views.
Rimma gives Oswald the nickname Alek because Lee sounds too Chinese and confuses the Russians. Oswald will adopt this name for the remainder of his
stay in Russia.
Here's an interesting snippet from this source on what occurred the next day, the 17th of October:
We have no precise information on what Lee Harvey Oswald did on Saturday, October 17, his second day in Moscow. We know more today about what the
Soviet authorities were doing.
On October 17, the Secretary of the Soviet Presidium, M.P. Georgadze, forwarded a translation of Oswald's letter to the KGB, referenced file "No. 435
October 17, 1959." The enclosed translation contained an error. Whereas Oswald stated he served three years in the Marines, the Russian translator
wrote that Oswald had "completed three years in a US naval academy." That alone must have left a negative impression on the KGB, as Oswald stated in
the same letter that he served as a private. It was not a good sign that their subject after three years in a naval academy did not rise above the
rank of private. The first impression must have been that either Oswald was a total foul-up, or a liar, or mentally unstable, or all three. And first
impressions, as they say, are the most important.
In his diary Oswald writes:
Rima meets me for Intourist sightseeing, says we must continue with this although I am too nervous, she is "sure" I'll have an answer soon. Asks me
about myself and my reasons for doing this. I explain I am a communist, etc. She is politely sympathetic, but uneasy now. She tries to be a friend to
me. She feels sorry for me; I am something new.
On Oswalds Third day in the Soviet Union, his birthday in fact, he made it known to Rimma that he desperately wished to remain in the Soviet Union
once more. Even offering to give up certain American military secrets that he had in his possession - Ones which I would assume would be purposefully
false assuming Oswald was working as a spy at this time. Remember It's claimed he purposefully passed on false information in his Intelligence mission
in Atsuki, Japan?
This was reported to the KGB and by the 20th I believe Oswald was interviewed. Again, I will use this source of mine to explain in detail what
happened exactly as well as show points of interest:
According to KGB Colonel Oleg Nechiporenko's 1993 book, Passport to Assassination, Oswald was first debriefed by a senior professional
intelligence officer from the KGB's First Chief Directorate (Intelligence), 15th Department (Tourists), on October 20, 1959. The debriefing was
conducted by Abram Shaknazarov, a veteran of the Soviet secret police since the 1920's. For the purposes of the interview, Shaknazarov posed as an
official from OVIR (the Visa and Registration Agency) which technically was the conduit for Oswald's request to remain in the USSR. The interview
lasted for approximately ninety minutes.
If, as Nechiporenko claims, Skaknazarov was a veteran of the security forces since the 1920's, he must have been a remarkable personality. He not
only witnessed and participated in the Stalin purges of the 1930's, the Second World War, and the execution of his boss Beria following Stalin's
death--but he also survived these events! (According to historian Robert Conquest, 20,000 Soviet security officers were shot in the Stalin
purges--the majority being "old generation" NKVD officers like Shaknazarov.) How did as experienced a KGB officer as Shaknazarov miss the hints that
Oswald was dropping in the previous days that he had something of value to offer the Soviets? Or did Oswald backtrack on his offer during the
interview? As Shaknazarov is no doubt as dead as Oswald is today, we will probably never know until the KGB opens their file on the specifics of that
Is Nechiporenko to be believed? Nechiporenko was a senior KGB officer who claims to have met (along with KGB officer Velery Kostikov) Oswald in
Mexico City during his alleged visit to the Soviet Embassy there in 1963. Nechiporenko in writing his book, claims to have had access in 1992-1993 to
some KGB files on Oswald. There is no doubt that Oleg Nechiporenko was a senior KGB officer in the highly sensitive Mexico KGB rezidentura. His
history was well known prior to his book although nobody had known he had been with Kostikov during Oswald's visit at the Soviet Embassy. With the
kind of seniority he enjoyed in the 1960's (he was expelled from Mexico in 1971) it is conceivable that by the 1990's he could have sufficient power
in the KGB to be able to call on Oswald's files. Some (although not specifically this one) Nechiporenko's claims are being confirmed by the files
released in 1999 by Yeltsin.
In Mailer's interview with Shirakova, she falls silent on what she and Oswald did on that day. Shirakova only says that on Tuesday evening she was
informed that Oswald would not be allowed to remain in the USSR.
In his diary, Oswald writes:
Oct. 20. Rimma in the afternoon says Intourist was notified by the pass & visa department [OVIR] that they want to see me; I am excited greatly by
On the same date, the deputy chief of the KGB, Alexander Perepelitsyn, signs a form letter from the KGB to the Supreme Soviet Secretary, stating that
in their opinion, granting Oswald citizenship is "inadvisable" or "pointless." (netselesoobraznim) This is a term that will appear in Oswald's
Soviet files for some time to come, which could mean both, "inadvisable" or "pointless." In interpreting the KGB's evaluation of Oswald as a
potential defector, the ambiguity of the term will be problematic within the limited scope of the documents declassified in 1999. If "unadvisable" it
may suggest that the KGB fears that Oswald might be a security threat; if "pointless" it suggests that Oswald is considered worthless as an
Here is the declining letter, de-classified in 1999:
It was the very day after this that Oswald was said to have attempted suicide and the same day his visa was said to have run out. Assuming he was
working for American Intelligence, perhaps he was disappointed about failing as such and this was the true cause for his attempted suicide?
Just a thought of course.
Please watch the very beginning of this fascinating video to hear Rimma's recollection of finding Oswald in a bathtub full of his own blood after
previously slitting his left wrist:
A CLOSER LOOK AT OSWALD
This above video also explains how Oswalds true love for communism was to be revealed also - and how It wasn't how we think it is today - as well as
how the KGB saw him (they were suspicious of him as they quickly realized he wasn't a Marxist in anyway whatsoever thus immediately brining up the
question of why he was really here in the first place).
In this video, Oswalds own brother also goes onto explain how Oswald was disappointed upon his return to the US specifically because there were no
reporters. At this point, let me remind all those reading what David Bucknall had previously said in an interview about why Oswald was really in the
"Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being
sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero."
He would be seen as a hero upon his return in 1961 (Oswald ended up returning in 1962 still. Although It was 1961 when he started writing letters of
how he didn't enjoy living in the soviet Union anymore). I theorize that due to the lack of media attention Oswald himself was expecting, this was the
true reason for his disappointment. It never had anything to with Oswald having to leave a communist environment like some have claimed. He hated
Anyway, upon this attempted suicide, one which obviously wasn't a genuine attempt at killing himself going from the severity of the wound he
sustained, Oswald was placed in a psychiatry ward in a local hospital. Rimma comes to visit him the next day. She recalls in 1991:
"he appeared pale but was sitting up on the edge of his bed. His arm was bandaged and in a sling. They joked lightly but never spoke of his "suicide
attempt" then or later. His hotel room, she told me, was vacated of his things and assigned to somebody else. "
Oswald wrote in his diary, that he was using during his entire time in the Soviet Union, of the events also:
Oct. 22. Hospital - I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the
breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me.
Later in afternoon I am visited by Rimma. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter she must ask me medical questions: Did you know what you were
doing? Answer, "yes". Did you blackout? No, etc. I then complain about poor food; the doctors laugh, apparently this is a good sign. Later they
leave. I am alone with Rimma (amongst the mentally ill) she encourages me and scolds me, she says she will help me get transferred to another section
of the hospital (not for insane) where food is good.
It seemed that since his Visa was about to run out, He was attempting to stall if anything... Oh, and it obviously worked as he was then allowed to
remain in Soviet Russia.
Assuming Oswald was indeed on some sort of Intelligence mission also, an interesting point to note is that he is alleged to have attempted to apply to
the Lalumba University in Moscow. Upon rejection though, is when he seemed to make the decision to commit suicide or make it seem as so. Tying this in
with the fact he was on his last day in Russia and this appeared to be a failed mission
Why would this matter though? Well, the Lalumba University seemed to be no normal university, It seemed to be a breeding ground for revolutionaries
and of great interest to American Intelligence also.
Please also watch the above video again as this university is briefly explained. Here is an interesting snippet also of what occurred after Oswald's
"suicide attempt" as well as how he was being seen as highly suspicious by the KGB and suspected of being on some sort of Intelligence mission:
On October 31, Oswald appeared at the United States embassy in Moscow, declaring a desire to renounce his U.S. citizenship. John McVickar, an
official at the U.S. embassy, felt that Oswald, "...was following a pattern of behavior in which he had been tutored by [a] person or persons
unknown...seemed to be using words which he had learned but did not fully understand...in short, it seemed to me that there was a possibility that he
had been in contact with others before or during his Marine Corps tour who had guided him and encouraged him in his actions."
Oswald told the interviewing officer at the U.S. embassy, Richard Snyder, "...that he had been a radar operator in the Marine Corps and that he had
voluntarily stated to unnamed Soviet officials[when?] that as a Soviet citizen he would make known to them such information concerning the Marine
Corps and his speciality as he possessed.
He intimated that he might know something of special interest." (Such statements led to Oswald's hardship/honorable military discharge being changed
to undesirable.) The Associated Press story of the defection of a U.S. Marine to the Soviet Union was reported on the front pages of some newspapers
After this whole ordeal, Oswald was in fact eventually granted permission to remain in the soviet Union, as I previously mentioned, but on a "one-year
temporary residency." He was shortly afterwards, in 1960, sent to Minsk to work as an assembler at a radio and television factory - something which
seemingly distressed Oswald a great deal as he was hoping to be allowed to study in University in Moscow. Or so he claimed (remember the nature of
this university I briefly mentioned).
Rimma Shirakova states that he was deeply disappointed; Oswald hoped he would be allowed to study in University in Moscow. He wept bitterly,
On January 4, 1960, Oswald was issued a Soviet internal passport, citing his citizenship as "stateless." It was valid for one year. He was given a
one-time grant of 5000 old rubles ($500) to settle his hotel bill and purchase a train ticket for Minsk. There would also be a monthly subsidy of 70
new rubles ($70) from the Soviet Red Cross.
He was said to have been under constant surveillance for the duration of his time here also.
It was also here that Oswald seemed to meet and then go onto marry, Marina Prusakova (see below).
What's particularly interesting about Marina and this marriage is that she and Oswald were to actually become married with-in a mere 6 weeks of
meeting for the first time. It was also conveniently around this time that Oswald started becoming disillusioned with life in Russia and started
showing signs that he wanted to leave and return to the US again.
Here are some images of them:
Marina originally moved to Misnk, the city where she met Oswald, in 1957 and lived with her uncle during her time here. Her uncle, Ilya Prusakova,
actually worked at the Ministry of Internal Affairs (He was the American Equivalent of the FBI I believe) at this moment in time.
It's unclear whether Marina herself was the target of an Intelligence mission as she may have held secrets her uncle possessed, but like I said, a
mere 6 weeks of meeting for the first time was enough to consider marrying Lee Oswald whom then wished to return to the US shortly afterwards.
Breeding grounds for pure speculation It would seem.
They also had a daughter here (could this explain why Oswald returned a year after he said he would?) - June Oswald - and together, they all left for
the United States in 1962.
- Return to the US
Image of Lee and Marina Oswald as they prepare to return to the United States.
Now, I'd like to ask at this point whether anyone reading thinks It's the least bit suspect that Oswald would be allowed to return to the Unites
States once again as easy as this was? Not forgetting how fast (as he defected a mere couple of years before). He was classified an official traitor
to the country as he defected to the soviet Union after all. But, as I've made it known, I'm a firm believer he was in fact working with the US
government all along - and this is why It was so easy.
A theory still but It seems plausible unless shown otherwise..
And It seems I'm not alone in my thinking here as Marina Oswald, his wife and the person who was supposed to be closest to him thought the same. In an
interview she conducted in, I believe 1988 (could be mistaken), she claimed: ''I'm not saying that Lee is innocent, that he didn't know about the
conspiracy or was not a part of it, but I am saying he's not necessarily guilty of murder. At first, I thought that Jack Ruby (who killed Oswald two
days after the assassination) was swayed by passion; all of America was grieving. But later, we found that he had connections with the underworld.
Now, I think Lee was killed to keep his mouth shut.''
''I believe he worked for the American government... He was taught the Russian language when he was in the military. Do you think that is usual, that
an ordinary soldier is taught Russian? Also, he got in and out of Russia quite easily, and he got me out quite easily.''
Marina later remarried and became known as Marina Oswald Porter. In the 1990s she became involved in a campaign to clear the name if her former
husband. In April 1996 she wrote that: "At the time of the assassination of this great president whom I loved, I was misled by the "evidence"
presented to me by government authorities and I assisted in the conviction of Lee Harvey Oswald as the assassin. From the new information now
available, I am now convinced that he was an FBI informant and believe that he did not kill President Kennedy."
I haven't been able to obtain this video, I believe it was taken off of youtube and is now nowhere to be seen. Again though, I could be mistaken. This
being so, here is another interview of Marina Oswald by interviewer Jack Anderson that I did manage to find:
AN INTERVIEW WITH MARINA OSWALD
Anyway, upon the return to the US by both Oswald and Marina..Not forgetting there daughter whom was born in Russia, June I believe, Oswald seemed
disappointed stepping off the plane according to his brother. And at this time, please let me refresh your memory once more about a certain interview
I previously highlighted.
The part of this interview of interest here is bolded:
Regarding Oswald’s tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald
in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID)
at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against “Communists” in Cuba. Oswald
was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had
taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon
and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he
would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.
Notice something here? Oswald was asking his brother where the reporters were and he had allegedly previously informed a marine buddy that upon his
return he would be hailed as a hero upon stepping on American soil again. Again I theorize that if this was indeed true, the serious lack of attention
was the true reason behind Oswald being disappointed here? He didn't get the attention he was promised..Or expected.
Seems like it to me at least. So, maybe there really was something in what was said in this interview, particularly when It was mentioned Oswald was
sent to the Soviet Union on an Intelligence mission. He did stay for a very short period of time after all and let's not forget he married and then
moved to the united states, with tremendous ease, after only meeting Marina, whom was close to her Uncle who was working as the equivalent of an FBI
spy, 6 weeks prior.
It's all speculation unfortunately but as the saying goes, where there is smoke, there is most probably fire.
This is all rather peculiar behaviour indeed from Oswald though, still. But is there any other reason to be suspicious here? Well, according to
Donald deneselya (sp?), Oswald upon his return to the US had stopped off in Washington - something his mother claimed also as she was sent a letter
from Lee confirming this - he even reports seeing Oswalds very own De-briefing papers as the whole point of stopping off here was to be de-briefed
after his intelligence mission.
Again, this giving us reason to believe there is some truth to this previous interview which states Oswald was working with the Unites States
government all along at this point - much like his hero, Herbert Philbrick.
Please again watch this video I've previously posted. Please watch from 3:10 - 5:00 where this is highlighted and discussed in more detail. A
tape of this interview with deneselya is shown briefly also:
A CLOSER LOOK AT OSWALD - THE RETURNED
Here are videos of Marguerite Oswald reading out the letters she received from Oswald, which may be of interest at this point also:
MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART
MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART
MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART
MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART
- 2 Assassination attempts, adjusting to life in America, freedom for Cuba, the FBI and the possible preparation of a
By early 1963, and now living in America once more - this time with his new Russian wife, Oswald supposedly began planning an assassination attempt,
not against the President of the United States though, but against Major General Edwin Anderson Walker (see below).
This was not as It would seem though. Oswald wasn't ever suspected of this until after the assassination of the President and J.D.Tippit themselves.
Despite there even being witness's to the shooting also, Oswald was actually never suspected until he could no longer speak up for himself. This
simple fact being one many seem to conveniently forget.
One witness was, I believe, a man called Kirk Coleman and he recalled seeing not 1, but 2 men attempt to make there escape from the residence of
General Walker, whom was wounded by a snipers shot but not fatally. Coleman claimed one stopped to place something in the back of his Ford sedan, then
they both drove off in different cars.
I'll note at this point that Oswald couldn't drive therefore further cause for the suspicion as to as to whether he really was involved in this
assassination attempt has to be raised.
This being so though, upon returning home though that evening, It's claimed that Marina asked Oswald where he had been and this is what she
Marina Oswald later claimed that on 10th April, 1963, Oswald attempted to assassinate General Edwin Walker, a right-wing political leader. She
reported that she "asked him what happened, and he said that he just tried to shoot General Walker. I asked him who General Walker was. I mean how
dare you to go and claim somebody's life, and he said "Well, what would you say if somebody got rid of Hitler at the right time? So if you don't know
about General Walker, how can you speak up on his behalf?." Because he told me... he was something equal to what he called him a
Ok, going back to a previous point - the point being that Oswald was only suspected of this assassination attempt after the assassination of JFK -
Around 6 months later. And Why was he suspected some may ask? Well, he was suspected because they (the authorities put in charge of searching his home
after he is said to have assassinated the president) had allegedly found a photograph of Walker's home found among Oswald's possessions.
When the photograph was turned over to the Warren Commission by the FBI, a hole had been pushed through it right in the spot where the license plate
on the car had been, the one Coleman had seen, making the car unidentifiable (it did not belong to Walker btw). Another photograph, taken by the
Dallas police, showed Oswald's possessions laid out on the floor of police headquarters. This included the photograph of Walker's home, without the
hole obscuring the license plate.
Marina also once claimed this though:
Marina Oswald stated later that she had seen Oswald burn most of his plans in the bathtub, though she hid the note he left her in a cookbook, with
the intention of bringing it to the police should Oswald again attempt to kill Walker or anyone
Oswald was burning his images of General Walker and his home. How stupid are we supposed to be here? Are we really going to believe that Oswald, on
purpose, conveniently left incriminating evidence against himself - evidence to be found at a later date? I just don't buy it. That's just me though.
Anyway, the only thing that was, or should have been left, was the note Oswald left to Marina - this note now being out of his possession and in the
hands of Marina. Btw, the note was for "he was caught" (He allegedly did the same thing on the 22nd of November, 1963).
Suspicions again should be raised as to why It was only after Oswald was dead, and unable to speak up, as to why these images tying him to the Generl
walker assassination, surfaced. Perhaps they were planted?
Anyway, after this supposed Assassination attempt, Oswald began writing to the Fair Play for Cuba committee, he then eventually started "renting a
small office at my own expense for the purpose of forming a FPCC branch here in New Orleans". Three days later, without waiting for a reply, Oswald
then went onto order appropriately 1,000 copies of a handbill from a local printers. It read: "Hands Off Cuba! Join the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
New Orleans Charter Member Branch, Free Literature, Lectures, Everyone Welcome!" (Images of Oswald handing out these leaflets are posted below)
Oswald rented an office for the FPCC at 544 Camp Street also. No one joined the FPCC in New Orleans however, but Oswald did send out two honourary
membership cards to Gus Hall and Benjamin Davis, two senior members of the American Communist Party. Perhaps this was yet another Intelligence mission
Oswald was taking part in..
Sometime in mid August though, Oswald was involved in an incident while handing out these leaflets. I believe a fight broke out between him and a man
called Carlos Bringuier. If this was an Intelligence mission, It worked as the Fair Play For Cuba Committee was to be closed down for around 90 days
specifically due to this incident.
Bringuier and Oswald a couple of days later actually got the chance to debate each other on the Bill Stuckey Radio Show. This can be heard here:
DEBATE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD VS. CARLOS BRINGUIER & ED BUTLER, PART
DEBATE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD VS. CARLOS BRINGUIER & ED BUTLER, PART
What's actually rather about this interesting incident, and one which causes suspiciousness, is that Oswald wrote about this exact incident (being
attacked by Cuban Exiles) occurring 5 days before It actually had done. It seemed if anything, that this was a staged fight. Further reasoning
to believe this can be found as Bringuier was found in possession of a Guidebook for Marines, one which was allegedly owned by Oswald.
On Oswald's leaflets given out in New Orleans, was the address 544 Camp Street, New Orleans. This was also the address of the office used by
Bringuier. It was also around the corner from 531 Lafayette Street, which housed the detective agency run by Guy Bannister, another man accused of
being involved in the assassination.
Not forgetting that while being placed in a jail cell for this incident, ask who Oswald decided to ring on his one and only phone call? Yup, It was
the FBI - specifically an agent called John L. Quigley - because of all of this, some
believe this entire incident was a coverup for A.) Shutting down the Fair Play for Cuba Committee for a short while and B.) For a
de-briefing meeting. Suspicions were further raised when Quigley destroyed all notes from this meeting he had with Oswald also.
As I previously said, this then led to the famous radio debate between Oswald and Bringuier which is linked above. It was this very radio Interview
where Oswald was exposed for living in and defecting to the Soviet Union. It's possible It was at around this time Oswald was unwillingly being
prepped as a patsy by tying him to communist activities (defecting to Russia, being a member of the Fair Play for Cuba committee etc..).
It was now September 1963, a mere 2 months before the assassination of Kennedy where Oswald and Marina then made the decision to move to Dallas, Texas
to have there second child (I believe this was Rachel whom was mentioned near the beginning of this thread). It was at around this time that Oswald
was spotted with people like David Ferrie, Clay Shaw (both men were put on trial by Jim Garrison suspected of being involved in the JFK Assassination)
as well as more alleged FBI Officials also. Ones he allegedly had "secret meetings" with.
Before going to Dallas with his wife though, Oswald began visiting Mexico City where he then attempted to Obtain permission to travel to Cuba. This
was turned down and after trying to obtain a visa to once more return to the Soviet Union he arrived in Dallas in October, 1963 to join his wife.
It was here that Marina and June (their eldest child) were now living with a woman called Ruth Paine. This is quite significant as It was Ruth Paine,
someone who is of no suspicion, who was the one who eventually found Oswald a job in the Texas School Book Depository building - the very same one
where he is claimed to have fired his bullets, fatally wounding President John F. Kennedy and then making his escape only to run into J.D.Tippit who
he then allegedly went onto shoot and kill approximately 40 minutes later, also.
In this next section of this thread, I'll attempt to shed some light on exactly what Oswald did on the 22nd of November 1963 as well as establishing
whether his actions are in coherce with someone about to Assassinate the president of the United States of America and a supposed Innocent police
November 22nd, 1963 - The day a president died
As I've made it more than clear up until this point, I'm under the impression that Oswald was in fact no such thing as a communist. Something we've
been led to believe he was over the years. I'd go as far as saying he was a acting as one purposefully and he was also an agent for the Unites States
Government, something his wife and his own mother also strongly believe.
This being so, I don't want it to seem like I don't in anyway believe Oswald was involved in the assassination of JFK and that he was completely
unfairly designated as a patsy and nothing more as I believe that to be completely untrue - instead, he was more than certainly involved in some way
or another, IMO. More than probably anyway. But the questions I want to ask are, did he shoot Kennedy? Is what we have been told about him true? And
Like before, I don't want to follow the trend of just looking at how Oswald could have shot him, I wish to look at whether it itself (the shooting) is
plausible and or possible.
Bearing this in mind:
(Please see the next post. Thanks. )
edit on 29-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)
- Was Oswald really in Dealey Plaza and if so, what did he do in the immediate aftermath of the assassination?
Now, It's no lie that Oswald was indeed in this building during the shooting of the president. That's unmistakable. After being asked by reporters
after he is captured, he even states that "naturally I would be in that building" so there really isn't any dispute about him at the very least being
here. Witnesses who he worked with even place him here.
But It seems as though Oswald was in no position to shoot anybody still - despite allegedly leaving Marina another note that morning much like he did
on the day of the General Walker Assassination.. allegedly.
When some of the police officors, stormed the building immediately after the assassination, they even saw Oswald on the second floor "standing around
calmly and drinking a coke". And what did one of the police Officers do at this time? Yup, he pointed a gun at Oswald (I believe their was others in
this lunchroom at the time also).
Motorcycle officer Marrion L. Baker was the one who went in and is said to have shouted at him (Oswald) and then pointed his gun. One of the other men
with him (I believe he was called Roy S. Truly - the TSBD Inspector and was Oswalds own boss who previously ran into Baker) noticed who It was and It
was only this which had seemingly caused the men to bypass the obviously shaken Oswald to proceed forward up the building only to resurface around
5-10 minutes later.
It was then upon their return, Baker immediately claimed Oswald had disappeared and called it in. Quite suspicious behaviour towards Oswald It would
seem as he was a complete unknown to Baker and didn't seem to be acting suspiciously himself at this time. Around 15 others who worked here are said
to have been missing at this time also I believe.
Perhaps though Oswald was involved in some way or another still and he realized he couldn't stick around. But It seems as though he was certainly in
no position to shoot anybody at anytime:
Please watch this fascinating video which explains this incident in further detail:
THE TSDB EMPLOYEES AND OFFICER BAKER, PART
This video also goes onto bring up an interesting point. Since they had somehow obtained an incredibly detailed description of Oswald - one which was
very detailed indeed, why wasn't his name ever cast over the radio broadcast? Instead they decided to use the term "an unknown white male" one whom
fit the description of Oswald as perfect as was in fact possible.
Also, as was claimed, Oswald wasn't the only one missing here. It's claimed around 15 others were missing or unnaccounted for. So again, I have to
ask, why was Oswald and Oswald alone focused on at this time. Why did Baker immediately point his gun towards him on the second floor of the building
upon entering? And so on..
Jack Edward Dougherty - one of the only people whom saw Oswald enter the building in the first place also claimed Oswald has absolutely nothing in his
possession at this time also - again going against what the Warren Commition had claimed to us about him. If Oswald was the shooter from this
building, It would've been planted long before he arrived by him or by someone else It would seem.
The Janitor of this building also saw Oswald prior to going off to Lunch at around 12 PM. And a women called Carolyn Arnold is reported to have seen
Oswald in the Lunch room at approximately 12:15 - 12:25. This would leave Oswald around 5 minutes (as the president was shot at approximately 12:30)
for Oswald to make his way to the sixth floor, find and assemble his rifle, shoot the president of the United States 3 times, hide his weapon and then
return to the second floor, have time to get his breath back, pour himself a coke and then look totally relaxed... all without anybody noticing.
Call me crazy.. but I don't buy it.
Carolyn Arnold was conveniently, along with others, left out of the Warren Commition's investigations also might I add.
Here is part 2 of the above video. It discusses more anomalies centered around the witnesses and what they saw.
THE TSDB EMPLOYEES AND OFFICER BAKER, PART
It seems Oswald was certainly a part of the conspiracy, and upon having a gun pointed at him as well as one of his co-workers mentioning the news of
the fate of the president, Oswald decided It was time to leave. This "escape" was made much easier as most of those whom were stood outside, as well
as those who were stood on the steps of the Texas School Book Depository building ran up the grassy knoll area "in search of the shooter(s)".
Billy Lovelady, one of those on the steps of the building:
On 22nd November, 1963, Lovelady was working on the 6th Floor of the Texas School Book Depository. He was sitting on the steps outside the
building when President John F. Kennedy and his motorcade went past. He told the Warren Commission that the shooting came from "that concrete little
deal on that knoll". Afterwards, Lovelady and his friends ran towards the Grassy Knoll but they went sent back by the police in that
I would assume that the very fact the witnesses ran up the grassy knoll is some cause for suspicion, really. It's already suspected that the guns that
fired first were using some sort of silencer and came from the general direction of the TSDB (It's the only plausible theory when taking into account
the witness testimony into how the shots were spaced out and what they themselves heard) thus this being why no real reaction occurred but It's the
next shots after the first set which almost every witness heard, which seemingly came from the Grassy knoll. Even those in the car such as Kellerman,
claimed the shots had come from here as opposed to the TSDB at one point I believe - these sets of shots coming from clear rifle fire witnesses
The first set of shots are suspected to have been used under some sort of silencer, as I mentioned, which was the reason for the missed shot as well
as the first failed head shot as a silencer caused the gun to malfunction as the theory goes. And the second set of shots are suspected to have been a
rifle thus why everyone heard these and why they report the first shots to sound nothing like shots at all.. instead, something resembling a fire
cracker and sounding much different as opposed to the second set (which occurred in quick succession).
I do have to ask though, I wonder if it would be possible that these second set of shots, coming from an rarea which would have a relatively easy
escape route being on the Grassy Knoll, would be some sort of decoy for the much harder escape route, the TSDB as this was in a surrounding area where
many people were lined up?
Just a thought of course.
Anyway, Oswald did escape from the TSDB before It was closed off and one of the first things he did was get on a local bus. Odd for someone who just
shot the president of the Unites States, yes? Here is an interview with the Bus driver who picked Oswald up:
INTERVIEW OF THE BUS DRIVER WHO PICKED UP
As the traffic had come to a standstill at this time, Oswald then left the bus after advancing around 2 blocks, and hailed a cab. Here is an interview
with the cab driver whom picked up Oswald:
INTERVIEW OF THE CAB DRIVER WHO PICKED UP
Now, It seems at this point that Oswald was certainly more than aware the president had just been shot. So, what was one of the first things he did?
Yup, he went to one of his previous rooming houses, walked in, picked up a few things and then quickly left once again. It's suspected he had picked
up a gun - the very same one found on him after his arrest later on in the day in the theater.
Now, something quite odd happened here also. Oswald didn't just pick up a gun as It seemed. Instead, He was seemingly being helped/signaled by
'someone' outside causing him to swiftly leave the residence. Let me explain in this next section:
- Earlene Roberts and her startling claim
Here is a snippet from a previous thread of mine discussing Earlene Roberts:
Earlene Roberts - A diabetic was forced to give up where she worked in the
months leading to November, 1963 (The month of the assassination of Kennedy).
Because of this she was literally forced to rent out some of the rooms where she lived. One such resident here was none other than Lee Harvey Oswald
Oswald left swiftly after this had occurred also. Giving the impression, to me, they were involved with each other in some way.
But that's not all, what's even more fascinating about this claim, if true, was that the car number she recalled seemed to belong to the car of one
Officor J.D.Tippit, the man Oswald had apparently shot dead later that day. (despite countless witnesses claiming Oswald couldn't have been the
Perhaps Tippet was in on the assassination of the president in some way and perhaps he was one of the very first "mysterious deaths" to occur, It's
not clear but to me this is what It seems like if this testament from Roberts is correct.
Here's something interesting to note about how Roberts was treated after this claim:
In an article published in Ramparts, David Welsh claims that Roberts was subjected to intensive police harassment. "They visited her at all hours
of the day and night, contacted her employers and identified her as the Oswald rooming house lady. As a result she was dismissed from three
housekeeping and nursing jobs in April, May and June of 1964 alone; no telling how many jobs she lost after that."
Earlene Roberts died of a heart attack in Parkland Hospital on 9th January, 1966.
Well "they" apparently did the exact same thing to many others, including Hank Killam
causing him to lose countless jobs also. Well, then he was found with his throat cut after receiving a mysterious phone call in which he rushed
out the house only to be later found in a pool of his own blood on a nearby sidewalk. Coincidence? Possibly...
Here is an interesting video interview of Roberts on Oswald:
EARLENE ROBERTS, LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S
- What really happened to Officor J.D.Tippit?
According to most witnesses (Please see some of the video interviews of some of these witnesses below) Officor J.D.Tippit stopped his car in Oak Clift
on 10th street, approximately 40 - 45 minutes after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. He is said to have stopped in order to talk to one
particular gentlemen whom technically has never fully been recognized as the man suspected of the shooting, Lee Harvey Oswald.
It's claimed Tippit got out of his car, approached a man resembling Oswald, remember at this point Oswald went back to the rooming house,
picked up a few things and was later found with a gun in his possession, spoke to this one gentleman for a few minutes, began reaching for his own
weapon before being shot approximately 4 times.
One of which was to the temple proving to be a fatal shot.
With almost everything else relating Oswald to a serious crime in this case, certain anomalies can be found. The J.D.Tippit murder is certainly no
different in the slightest. Let's not forget at this time that Earlene Roberts could show that Tippit had earlier, or another officor had done, hinted
at Oswald while in his rooming house also. What they were hinting at exactly is unknown but It certainly seemed to be something.
Another is that on the morning of the assassination, Tippit himself hugged his eldest son and is claimed to have said "no matter what happens today, I
want you to know that I love you". This being relatively odd and spontaneous behavior. It's the type of behavior from someone who isn't sure whether
they are coming home that day really but It could just be a coincidence of course. Then after the assassination Itself had taken place, he was
situated at a nearbye gas station (the Gloco Gas Station), simply waiting. He was seemingly on the look out for something.
It's said he was looking in the general direction of the the route which is followed by Houston Street where Kennedy previously was. Then he randomly
seemed to speed off all of a sudden, before at arpproximately 12:45 - 1:00 pm, he sped to a local shop where he frantically asked to use a phone which
was at the counter, all the while pushing others out of the way.
Upon dialing an unknown number and receiving no answer, Tippit then once more ran outside, pushing people out of the way yet again, got in his car and
speeding off once more. Witnesses say he was upset. Then according to a man called James A. Anderson, Tippit came up behind him shortly after this
incident, and physically caused him to stop by the roadside by cutting directly in front of his car.
He then ran out to the car, frantically looked inside, and once more looked extremely disappointed. Without saying a word to Anderson, he got back
inside his car and sped off. It was after all of this incredibly suspicious behavior that Tippit supposedly had his encounter with Oswald where he was
This anomaly is but one. Another interesting one states that Oswald was given a very short timeline to reach Tippit in order to kill him in the first
place. I believe the Warren Commition's own tests showed a timeline of around 12 minutes to reach the destination with Oswald being claimed to have
taken around 17 minutes for it to be possible.
This being so, I do very much so believe this video here can shed some light on this issue, how the route occurred, and of course, which routes are
possible - hopefully clearing up a great deal of confusion:
THE ROUTE FROM THE ROOMING HOUSE TO OFFICER
The general message from this video is Oswald could have indeed made the distance claimed in the timeline possible.
Here is yet more interesting videos with go into detail on the issues I mentioned above relating to J.D.Tippit and also Lee Harvey Oswald. Please take
the time to watch:
THE MURDER OF DALLAS POLICE OFFICER
Here are some of the witnesses to the shooting and what they saw which is of interest:
J.D.TIPPIT MURDER WITNESS
J.D.TIPPIT MURDER WITNESS: AQUILLA
WHO KILLED OFFICER JD TIPPIT
Here is the most interesting of them all:
J.D.TIPPIT MURDER WITNESS: MRS.
It seems that Oswald was not the shooter of J.D.Tippit according to what most of the witnesses seem to say - despite him possibly being able to follow
the route in the given timeline. That's the general hypothesis taking all of this into account anyway.
One witness even placed Oswald in the theater he was arrested in before the Assassination of J.D.Tippit had even occurred. It's claimed Oswald was in
this building at around 1:07 according to this witness. And the man J.D. Tippit had stopped was at approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m:
WITNESS: OSWALD WAS IN THE TEXAS THEATER AT
- Arrest in the theater. Was Oswald supposed to meet somebody here?
By this time (Around 1:07 - 1:15pm) Oswald now attempted to gain acess to the nearby (near the shooting of J.D.Tippit) Texas Theater building on West
Jefferson, presumably in the hope of evading arrest even for a little while longer. Unfortunately for him though, many police officors turned up and
Oswald was quickly pointed out to them. He had snuck in himself without paying and was acting relatively suspiciously while in there also.
He ran in, in clear view actually, without paying and then attempted to blend in by sneaking into a movie while It was already on.
One of the many officors who went into the theater and was pointed towards Oswald, situated near the back of the theater, was a police officor called
Nick McDonald, the very same man who a couple of weeks later was assigned to protect Marina Oswald, Lee's Russian wife.
Firstly some people who were sitting closer to McDonald, situated nearer the center of the theater were searched, then It came to Oswald. He was
situated further along. McDonald asked him to "get on his feet" which Oswald did raising his hands also, then upon being searched, Oswald cried out,
"Well, it's all over now." hinting that he was about to surrender before he struck the officor with his left hand between the eyes.
With his right hand Oswald seemingly reached for his gun also, unfortunately for him though the Police officer was able to grab it and they both fell
into the chair Oswald had been sitting in. It was then that other officors piled in to subdue Oswald who was clearly resisting arrest at this
He, the officor, felt something graze across his hand at one point during this "fight", and heard what sounded like the snap of the hammer - something
confirmed by other witnesses (around 10 others were in this theater at the time) as well as some of the other officors sent in. McDonald also claimed
to have felt the pistol scratch his cheek as he wrenched it away from Oswald. Images of him after this incident can confirm this proving Oswald had
indeed taken the pistol out of his pocket and was seemingly about to use it against the police officors.
Here is the seat where Oswald was arrested as shown today:
Testimony of a firearms expert before the Commission established that the hammer of the revolver never touched the shell in the chamber. Although the
witnesses did not hear the sound of a misfire, they might have heard a snapping noise resulting from the police officer grabbing the cylinder of the
revolver and pulling it away from Oswald while he was attempting to pull the trigger.
Upon being taken out from the theater, Oswald was heard to be crying out and claiming Police Brutality against him, he also made sure to yell out that
he "was not resisting arrest." Some researchers believe he did this specifically so that he wouldn't be shot by the police officors.
"... As Oswald, handcuffed, was led from the theatre, he was, according to McDonald, 'cursing a little bit and hollering police brutality.'
This photograph (The one I have added above) depicts Oswald on his way to the police car. " At 1:51 p.m., police car 2 reported by radio that
it was on the way to headquarters with the suspect" [for the murder of Officer Tippit, not for the assassination of the
Here is an interesting video interview of the same officor whom arrested Oswald. The very one who Oswald struck:
OFFICER NICK MCDONALD AND THE THEATER
What's particularly interesting about Oswalds time in the theater is 1.) He actually stopped off here in the first place. Now, this is just an
assumption on my part, but surely Oswald could've found a much better place to hide here? Not in a public place such as this, a mere 2 blocks from
where he was said to have just murdered a police officor.
And 2. ) Oswald showed signs of odd behavior specifically in this theater. Nothing odd in itself considering what he's said to have done I guess (let
me also point out at this time that If Oswald was so edgy after shooting a police officor, why was he so calm after just shooting the president of the
United States as was claimed previously? It doesn't make sense. Unless he didn't do it of course. Anyway...) but odd in the sense that he was actually
moving from seat to seat, trying to get close enough to have a good look at some of the other individuals already here.
It's almost as If he specifically jumped into this theater (remember he just ran in without paying almost as If he didn't care who saw him) and then
specifically went to one of the movies on show at the time. I believe he had enough time to eventually sit near almost every single person in this
theater before resting in one particular spot as If he was expecting to meet someone but he wasn't entirely sure who.
Surely, if he was indeed guilty, and he wasn't looking for anyone in particular, he would've just sat down quietly would he not? Not drawing attention
to himself in such a way..
- The aftermath of the arrest and the moment Oswald realized he was a patsy
It was now approximately 2pm on the 22nd of November, 1963 when Lee Harvey Oswald, having allegedly murdered 2 people previously, as well as being
dramatically arrested in a theater, eventually arrived at a police station where he would be subject to questioning on the days events thus far.
Primarily the assassination of Officor J.D.Tippit which is what he was originally arrested for in the first place.
Quite late on, and after some questioning under Interrogation at this point, Oswald was then to come face to face with a horde of media reporters keen
to ask him further questions. It was these questions that Oswald declared that he had not been arrested for the murder of the President but that: "No,
I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the
hall asked me that question." and It was here that he claimed to have been arrested for living in the soviet union (on what appears to have been an
American Intelligence mission remember?), and then he goes on to cry out that: "I'm just a patsy!"
Here are the short hallway interviews he conducted in which he maintrains his innocence
OSWALDS HALLWAY INTERVIEW, PART 1
OSWALDS HALLWAY INTERVIEW, PART 2
OSWALDS HALLWAY INTERVIEW, PART 3
Here's one of Oswalds final Interviews in front of the media:
THE FAMOUS LEE HARVEY OSWALD POST SHOOTING
Oswald was also, and this is well known, to have undergone strenuous Interrogation on many different occations in the short time between his arrest
and his own shooting at the hands of Jack Ruby in Dallas Police Headquarters. Although of course we have absolutely no records of this interrogation,
or any other, as they were seemingly destroyed for reasons unknown.
Perhaps, again I'm speculating, Oswald revealed something that we're quite simply not supposed to know about thus the need to hide/destroy it and
dismiss it from preying eyes. And It's not like we can ask Oswald himself anymore as a mere 2 days after the assassination of Kennedy, and after one
last Interrogation, Oswald was being transported to a different jail when Jack Ruby, someone Oswald has shown time and time again to have known prior
to the assassination, something the warren committion strongly denies, jumped out from the crowd and fatally shot Oswald in the stomach.
Oswald then, as fate would cruelly have it, died in the same hospital President Kennedy had previously done also.
The True Motive Behind the Silencing of Oswald
- A look at Jack Ruby and why he really did it as well as the Aftermath of the demise of Oswald
As I had previously just mentioned, Jack Ruby was/is the man responsible for the murder of one Lee Harvey Oswald. As Oswald was being transferred
through a horde of media reporters, and at approximately 11:21 a.m on the 24th, November, 1963, he jumped out from the crowd and delivered the fatal
shot before being subdued himself and all on live television.
This produced this famous image below:
THE ASSASSINATION OF OSWALD
His reasoning for this seemed quite peculiar (possibly this was what really sparked off Ruby's suspiciousness in the first place) and it seemed to
change overtime as after being arrested for the murder, he claimed that he was merely trying to avenge Kennedy's death and spare Jackie Kennedy the
ordeal of going to trial etc. etc. In other words, he was attempting to obtain for himself something of a heroic styled persona.
Then it began to change a few times. On one occasion he claimed it was just a spur of the moment type of thing that caused him to jump out of the
crowd, grab his handgun and pull the trigger. It's even claimed by some though that prior to the shooting he drove into town to take care of some
money issues to an employee, walked to the local police station and left his dog to be taken care of as well as pay off some debts. Then make the
decision to head over to the police station where he murdered Oswald.
Something that if true doesn't seem like a spur of the moment type of decision at all. Also, after some research, It seems as though this employee is
more than likely a women called Teresa Norton and she was actually one of the last people on earth to speak to him before he took the decision
(although that in itself is debatable) to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald. She was also known by other names, one of which was Karen Bennet Carlin.
Now Carlin previously had a telephone conversation with Ruby, in which she asked him for a $25 advance so that she would be able to pay her rent and
buy groceries etc. etc.. Ruby had agreed and volunteered to stop at the Western Union office and send her a money order, as he said he had "business
in downtown Dallas" (Perhaps there is truth in the fact he was ordered to shoot Oswald and this business he was referring to was in fact Oswald
himself) that afternoon. Ruby drove into the downtown area, parked across the street from the Western Union office, paid for the money order to Norton
(A.K.A Carlin), and then walked the few remaining blocks to the Dallas Police Department, which is actually where he had shot Oswald.
The theory put forth by Frank Sheeran claims that Ruby was involved in the assassination of the president in the first place in some way or another
and after Oswald was caught Ruby was then assigned the role of coordinating police officers loyal to Ruby to murder Oswald while he was in their
custody as his connections made him suitable for such a job. Once this didn't happen Ruby was quite literally forced to do it himself by his superiors
or he would pay 'with his own life' in one of the only possible chances - when he was being transported on the 24th. Presumably they were worried
delicate secrets would be revealed thus motivation to permanently "silence" Oswald."
This seems to be the most plausible theory in all honesty. Especially as Jack Ruby had close connections with plenty of individuals highly suspected
of being involved in some way or another, such as Sam Giancana for example. Not forgetting David Ferrie and more. He's even said to have met Oswald on
occasions also - again, this being something the warren committion repeatedly deny.
Here is a fascinating piece of information about Rose Cheramie, someone whom worked for Jack Ruby at his own club which appears to back up the claim
the 2 men knew before any assassination had taken place:
Rose Cheramie (Cherami) was found unconsciousness by the side of the road at Eunice, Louisiana, on 20th November, 1963. Lieutenant Francis Frugé
of the Louisiana State Police took her to the state hospital. On the journey Cheramie said that she had been thrown out of a car by two gangsters who
worked for Jack Ruby. She claimed that the men were involved in a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. Cheramie added that Kennedy would be killed in Dallas
within a few days. Later she told the same story to doctors and nurses who treated her. As she appeared to be under the influence of drugs her story
Following the assassination, Cheramie was interviewed by the police. She claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald had visited Ruby's night club. In fact, she
believed the two men were having a homosexual relationship.
Rose Cheramie was found dead on 4th September, 1965. At first it appeared she had been involved in a road accident. Later it was argued that she had
been shot in the head before being run over by by a car in order to disguise the original wound. However, the Louisiana State Police Memo reported:
"Cheramie died of injuries received from an automobile accident on a strip of highway near Big Sandy, Texas, in the early morning of September 4,
1965. The driver stated Cheramie had been lying in the roadway and although he attempted to avoid hitting her, he ran over the top of her skull,
causing fatal injuries. An investigation into the accident and the possibility of a relationship between the victim and the driver produced no
evidence of foul play. The case was closed"
He certainly seems to be saying here that not all is as it seems and that a conspiracy more than certainly has taken place here. He heavily hints at
the vice president also later on in the video. Hinting at him in the sense that he is more than involved in what had occurred in Dallas, on the 22nd
of November, 1963.
Now, he was even more than willing to reveal the whole truth also but only if one small demand of his would be met - the demand being that he be
granted 'protection' and be moved from Dallas to Washington. Surely this is not too much to ask? He said his life was in danger in Dallas after all
and he needed to be moved to Washington where he would feel safe and where he would finally reveal everything he knew.
Well, Earl Warren the man he allegedly told this to, and the man said to have been heavily bribed by Johnson and Hoover into conducting the Warren
Committion itself, denied any such move of Ruby and because of this, we'll never know the true events from Ruby as he's no longer alive. He actually
passed away in 1967, a relatively short time after Kennedy was assassinated himself and after a very short time of wishing to reveal all he knew.
He's one of the first to die from the dreaded "sudden death curse" [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread683402/pg1]which conveniently
plagued so many other important witnesses of the JFK Assassination case.
Ruby, the silencer of Oswald, was seemingly silenced himself.
An Analysis into the Backyard Photos of Oswald - Were they faked?
And finally I wish to discuss one final point in this thread - something else of extreme interest in the Oswald case - the contentious Backyard
Photos. Now, Marina Oswald, to this day I believe, claims to have taken backyard photos of Oswald.
Personally, I believe her as well. That's something I'm not going to try and refute, instead, I argue that the photos we have in our posession to this
very day are not the ones she herself took in 1963. I propose the ones we have, and the ones shown to the world are fakes - fakes in the sense they
were faked to further incriminate Oswald without refute.
So, first off, here are the Backyard Photos of Lee Harvey Oswald which has caused a great deal of Controversy over the years:
These are certainly well known photo's, even appearing In LIFE magazine not long after the assassination (possibly to further incriminate Oswald as I
But, are they real? That's the question that must be asked, and IMO, no. No they certainly are not. In this section of this thread, I'll merely
attempt to show why, and to start off, let's actually take a closer look at the images themselves:
Notice how 2 of the faces from these backyard photos appear to be the exact same face? Here is an image to compare:
Pay particular attention to the shadow underneath Oswalds Nose, here is a helpful guide in noticing the anomaly It is creating:
A shadow shouldn't follow this path.
Here they both are again, this time both are facing upwards:
Notice how when overlapped, you can clearly see It's almost the exact same image of Oswald in both images:
This should be impossible. No 2 images should match as perfectly as these seem to. Even the shadow is the same.
Here's another picture for comparison purposes - Again, note the face:
Another anomaly this time involving the shadows in the background arises. The anomaly being that It's claimed these images were taken seconds apart
when the shadows show something very different. The shadow on the face is also quite inconsistent with the shadow on the ground:
Also the way Oswald stands is said to be almost an impossibility - especially for someone stood posing for a photo:
Another Anomaly appears on Oswald's chin. Please take a look at this photo of him in handcuffs:
Upon closer inspection:
Try this picture also:
Now take a look at the backyard photos:
There is no doubt in my mind that these images are fake. And photographic experts seemingly agree:
Photographic expert Jack White has studied these photographs for two decades and testified before the House Select Committee. His conclusion is
that the photographs are fakes. His pointed findings include:
1) STANDING OFF CENTER: White concludes that Oswald is standing off center and outside the weight bearing alignment of his feet. A person could not
stand in such a position.
2) PROPORTIONS: When the body proportions are brought into alignment from the knees to the head by adjusting the size of the photographs, one head is
much larger than the other.
3) OVERALL BODY SHADOWS: Although the photos were supposed to have been taken just seconds apart, the overall body shadows in the photographs are all
different. In 133-A the photograph has a 10 o'clock shadow, 133-B a 12 o'clock shadow and 133-C a 10 o'clock shadow again.
4) ARM AND ELBOWS: White said that the elbow is too high in one photograph and the elbow doesn't show up on the one photograph of the arm were Oswald
is holding the rifle. This pose had been attempted to be duplicated but could not.
5) HANDS AND FINGERS: On the photographs the left hand and finger looks normal. Yet the right hand is missing fingernails and the hand looks stubby.
6) WATCH: The photographs reveal that Oswald is wearing a watch but all witnesses have stated that Oswald did not wear and didn't own a watch. No
watch was found among the possessions of Oswald and he was not wearing one when he was arrested.
7) RIFLE: When the photographs are blown up to the actual height of Oswald that was 5'9", the rifle in the photograph is too long. When the rifle is
adjusted in the photograph to it's proper length, Oswald's height is six inches too short.
8) SCOPE: White noted that in the photograph the rear end of the rifle scope is missing and pants wrinkles appear where the end of the scope is
supposed to be.
9) FACE: The face shows Oswald with a flat chin but Oswald had a clift chin. There is a line that breaks up the grain of the photograph that runs
across the chin that many say is where the cut took place to paste Oswald's face onto the photograph.
10) PHOTOGRAPHIC OVERLAY: When Mr. White took 133-A and 133-B and adjusted and overlayed them, nothing matched up which isn't suppose to happen with
two slightly different poses. However, the faces on the two photographs did.
11) FACE SHADOWS: Both photos show the same V shaped shadow below the nose. However, on one of the photos Oswald's head is tilted but the shadow does
not adjust for this tilt.
12) NECK SHADOWS: On one of the photos there is light on the right side of the neck but the same photo shows the rifle casting a shadow to this angle.
13) COLLAR SIZE: The collar size can be determined from the photograph using a mathematical formula which came out to size 16. Oswald wore a six 14
1/2 collar and all his clothes found among his personal belongings were in the 14.5 to 15 inch range.
14) BACKGROUNDS: White determined that one photograph had the top cropped off and the other photograph had the bottom cropped off which made the
photos appear like they had been taken at slightly different locations. However, except for small fractions, everything lines up on both photographs
when the two were compared. That is, the camera did not change position and the only way to do this would be with a tripod which was not used.
15) SMALL DIFFERENCES: For many months White was puzzled by the small differences he noted in the backgrounds but they were not off much. After
looking at the photographs some more he determined that on the background of one, the camera appears to be slightly tilted. He then took another copy
of the photo by tilting it on a board and everything came perfectly into
According to my above source, this photo (below) was even found in actual police files approx. 20 years later. This image surely causing a great deal
of suspicion in regards to the "backyard photos" of Oswald, certainly giving the impression that they cetainly could have been faked at the very
So there you have it, the backyard photos. Whether you wish to continue believing they are real is a choice for you only, but after seeing the
evidence, I can't see how anyone can buy this nonsense and continue to believe these images are genuine..
But that's just me.
Thank you for reading this thread. I'd really love to hear any thoughts from the great members of ATS on the topic of Lee Harvey Oswald, any of the
theories I brought up, anything I missed or just anything related to Oswald.
Let me also state at this point that I'm looking to discuss how the assassination was possible in a future thread as well and I hope to show how shots
couldn't have come from the TSDB but instead, from another location, possibly the Dal-Tex building.
This being so, I'm more than willing to discuss the assassination and or how It could have occurred in this thread still.
Thanks again. Any thoughts?...
edit on 29-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)
Proudly Starred and Flagged.
This is the type of thread that attracted me to ATS in the first place. Very well thought out, concise and easily read. You've kept it and it's
details true to context and time lines. Very good research and nicely done with the supportive links.
Here's my analysis. Being raised in a wealthy family and taught you are genetically superior to humanity who are just beasts of burden, and that you
are doing God's will when you're groomed to fulfill various elite positions and control, starve, murder, torture, and commit warfare and nuclear
warfare against citizens over and over again.
The prime mindset of a killer.
edit on 29-4-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)
The evidence you present here RA, is top notch and very compelling - In short, this thread is amazingly well done just like your other JFK threads
are. You are one hell of a researcher! The photo manipulation analysis is very thought provoking.
This is outrageously well thought out and done Rise Against. And let me tell you, I RARELY say things of this nature to anyone. I also very
rarely give out stars and flags, but in this case it is indeed warranted.
I'm also a big fan of the Kennedy's and their subsequent demise. We can postulate all we want to about it, but I think it is far more likely that
LHO was indeed the patsy he claimed to be than not. The thing that has eluded me for years is Perries involvement in it all, or, rather, the why?
Don't get me wrong, I understand he was a pilot and (basically) mercenary, but he was also an attention fiend. Even back then, good attention or bad
attention unless as a diversion, were no-no's in the clandestine world.
LHO was a smart guy, and my *personal* belief is that, for whatever reason I can't seem to wrap my hands around, he was a last minute contingency. I
don't think he was ever meant to be there at all.
Been a while since I have been on ATS and been even longer since I have posted something. But this thread dragged me back. Very well organized, great
content and very well done my friend. My fear is that the Kennedy assassination has been hounded since the beginning with disinformation, not from the
official documents, but from witnesses and other people. We have developed, and have seen a lot of hearsay and lies from witnesses and people
"claiming" to "know" insider information that we will never know the truth due to this misinformation, whether accidental or purposefully has now
caused such a rift that the possibly of knowing what truly happened is unknown. And Kennedy's death was just one of many assassinations at the time,
MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, Marilyn Monroe, and Many others as well. Was Oswald a hired gun? A spy? A MK Ultra experiment? A patsy? Who truly knows either
way the evidence clearly dictates that he had something to do with the killing as you pointed out above. But as they say the guilty one is not the one
who commits the sin, but the one who causes the thought/action. And for that I reference this video:
(click to open player in new window)
Ruby states: The assassination would have never have happened if Stevenson was vice president. When asked to repeat what he said, he stated that you
should look at the man in office now.
Personally, I believe Oswald did NOT act alone, but that he did make the kill shot on Kennedy. A great analysis that I am probably going to have to
read again to make sure I got everything. I just thought I would stop by and say great thread on Oswald. Keep it up bro.
lol, Well, you always was a great poster, so I'm glad I was able to drag you back in here then.
Anyway, I couldn't agree more with that. The "dis-information" battle is more than present here in this case and It's seemingly been waging ever
since there was a case to discuss in the first place. It's unavoidable really and JFK certainly isn't the only one to "suffer" from this type of
unfortunate behavior of course..
Whether it be purposeful or accidental who knows, It doesn't really matter I suppose. It's there and It's happening.
This being so, I do find myself believing in the story of Jack Ruby - after the assassination as you highlighted - and how he went on to try and give
us reason to be suspicious of the official story. The video you yourself posted, one I've seen countless times now, alone giving us plenty of reason
to ask further questions. Whether It be a dis-information attempt or not, who knows. I do doubt that though, especially taking into consideration the
series of events which led to his own demise.
You see, upon being the new President of the Unites States in the first place, we all know Johnson set up the warren commission, yes? Well, It seems
as though he and Hoover actually set out bribe a certain important figure into conducting this, one I'm sure you know about already, Earl Warren
After the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to
"ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Johnson asked Warren if he
would be willing to head the commission. Warren refused but it was later revealled that Johnson blackmailed him into accepting the post. In a
telephone conversation with Richard B. Russell Johnson claimed: " Warren told me he wouldn't do it under any circumstances... I called him and
ordered him down here and told me no twice and I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City... And he started crying
and said, well I won't turn you down... I'll do whatever you say."
This being so, and after practically revealing a conspiracy had indeed taken place, one which points to the new president, Ruby went onto request a
move to a Washington jail as he was incarcerated for the murder of Oswald at the time and was seeing out his sentence in Texas, which is where he no
longer felt safe. He claimed that if this move occurred he would reveal everything he knew.
Now, don't you think It's the least bit suspect that the very person whom is said to have stopped Ruby from his prison move to Washington from
Dallas was none other than Earl Warren himself - the man bribed by Johnson - Johnson being the man whom Ruby was hinting at in the first place?
Could this simply be a coincidence? The conspiracy theorist in my says no.
Oh, and Ruby then went onto die shortly after this....
Personally, I believe Oswald did NOT act alone, but that he did make the kill shot on Kennedy.
I'm looking to start a thread in the future which hopefully refutes the latter of this as well btw.
Personally, I wouldn't ever say that Oswald didn't fire a shot, whether It be in Dealey Plaza or in Oak Cliff, but I'm convinced Oswald in no way
fired a bullet which actually struck Kennedy himself.
The more plausible shot, this being the first shot, is one from the Dal-Tex building as opposed to the Texas School Book Depository building also,
The thread was good until you got to the Oswald "faked" photo's that is a lot of nonsense to me, the face comparison's look totally different in
my opinion the upper lip look's different on both pics and the shadow on "his"
left eye is bigger compared to the other pic.
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