An Analysis Into the Mind of a Suspected Killer

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posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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Hello once again ATS,

Welcome to yet another thread on the case of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy - This thread primarily looking at and discussing one key figure in this case, the suspected killer of Officer J.D.Tippit as well as the suspected killer of President John F. Kennedy himself, Lee Harvey Oswald.

I've actually never really seen a thread dedicated to just Oswald in all honesty, not on ATS anyway, this being one of the main reasons why I've wrote this thread up in the first place really, rather I've seen plenty of threads that have been made on the case of the assassination and how It could have happened but nothing just on who did it and why exactly.

And yet people still seem to ask, "why did he do it"? "What made him carry out this attack on the President?" and further questions of this nature - ones obviously left without answers.

I want to try and discuss these questions much further in this thread. I want to take a closer look at what kind of man Lee Harvey Oswald was, what drove and motivated him, ask whether he really was who we think he was, what were his connections to the Mafia and particularly Jack Ruby, something the Warren Commition strenuously denies, and of course his connections to the Assassination of Kennedy himself. If such a strong connection really should exist.

I hope to at the very least try and show who he really was and then in turn I feel a more valid opinion on him and why he would carry out this attack can come to light. Assuming he really was responsible for this attack in the first place of course..

This being so, this thread however is a part of a much larger series of threads I'm looking to write up, mainly on the suspects of the murder of Kennedy. These threads are listed below. Active threads are highlighted in Orange.

Please click on one of the links in orange, or instead, scroll down the page to see my analysis into Lee Harvey Oswald and his entire involvement in this case as well as some key areas of his life which led him to being at Dealey Plaza in November, 1963 - the year of the Assassination.

Thanks.

________________________________________________________

Current threads on the subject:

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did William Greer Shoot Kennedy?
(This is also an Analysis into shots being fired from the Motercade position)

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: [color=Gray47]Did Jackie Lee Bouvier Shoot Kennedy?

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Inside the Mind of a Suspected Killer
(This is also an Analysis into Lee Harvey Oswald as well as the Texas Schoolbook depository building shots)

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Shots from the Dal-Tex building more plausible than the TSDB?
(This is also an Analysis into Jim Braden the possibility of shots from the Dal-Tex building)

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: A shot from the Grassy Knoll position?
(This is also an Analysis into James E. Files the possibility of shots from the Grassy Knoll position)

- The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did Johnnie Roselli Shoot Kennedy?
(This is also an Analysis into the possibility of shots from the nearby Storm Drain as well as Johnnie Roselli)
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Inside the mind of a suspected Killer - Lee Harvey Oswald

 




(October 18, 1939 – November 24, 1963)



 
 


(As has been mentioned, this overall thread is a look inside the mind of one Lee Harvey Oswald. This being so, I'll looking to expand this to discuss a lot of key areas prior to 1963 which shaped him and who he was as well as the events during 1963 also, and of course even certain anomalies that a lot of people don't seem to know about. This thread is a look at Oswald, a look into the shooting of the president, what happened afterwards exactly and much more. Thanks..)

 
 


Name: Lee Harvey Oswald (A.K.A: Alek J. Hidell)
Date of Birth: October 18, 1939
Place of Birth: New Orleans, Louisiana, United States of America
Spouse(s): Marina Prusakova
Date of Death: November 24, 1963 (24 years of age)
Cause of Death: Fatal Gunshot wound at the hands of Jack Ruby while in police custody

Ok, as we all know only too well, the infamous Lee Harvey Oswald was the man, and still is the man, suspected (please bear in mind he was never convicted - the chance was never given) of the murder of 2 individuals on the 22nd, November, 1962 - Officer J.D.Tippit, which was why he was arrested in the first place. And also the then president of the United States, John F. Kennedy 40 minutes previously.

According to, I believe, around 4 thorough investigations into the case, Oswald has been proven guilty of both murders. Well, this being so, we, simple researchers of the case are left with a choice. Do we just accept these conclusions, after all, their Is quite a few of them to say the least and all seem to say the same thing, and move on with our lives and our research into this case? Or, instead, do we continue looking at the simple facts and see if we can come to the same conclusions ourselves?

Well, I for one choose the latter, like many before me, and that's why I'm opening up this thread to bring forth some of my own analyses and conclusions as well as those of others also. Ones which I hope would explain quite a bit about not just if Oswald was in a possible position of killing Kennedy, but what kind of man Oswald really was and what exactly led him to be the kind of man we know him as today.

Now, first off, let me state that I'm looking to bring forth some fairly lesser known theories here, as well as discussing some fairly lesser known information, but I'm in no way claiming anything as fact. I do hope to spur on some interesting debates though, and I hope we can come together and come to an overall plausible conclusion here. One conclusion I, myself, have come to - this being something I will try and prove later on in this thread - Is that Lee Harvey Oswald himself was working with the CIA all along, right up until the day Kennedy died and right up until his arrest when he was made a patsy and Jack Ruby was ordered to kill him.

This being one of the most crucial parts of this entire case, especially as the Warren Commition have attempted to portray him as something of a lone nut - hence the Lone Nut Theory. Again, I hope to show otherwise..

I'll continue to try and prove this theory a little later on in this thread, but for now, let's just take a closer look at just who Lee Harvey Oswald was from an early period in his life in the hope of establishing what led this man to be the type of man he really was.



Lee Harvey Oswald, as one would expect from someone whom is said to have killed the president of the United States of America had somewhat of a troubled childhood. His own father died approximately 2 months before he was born, leaving him without a father figure for his entire life, he was often moved around (I believe experiencing around 7 different schools at the mere age of 12/13), his mother wasn't exactly motherly towards him and his siblings to say the least (his brother claims they were seen as "burdens" by her) and Oswald possessed quite aggressive and temperamental tendencies at times.

His own daughter, Rachael Oswald Porter, in more recent times describes herself as being extremely moody and very introverted - a trait those around her claim Oswald, her father, seemed to possess also. Something which is understandable as Oswald as a child was, as I mentioned, moved around a lot and seemed to find it somewhat difficult to make close friends thus spending a great deal of time completely alone.

He then started skipping school on a regular basis due to this where he was subject to his first interaction with the law - he even at one point was sent to a youth house where he received a psychological evaluation. All this at no more than the age of 13 I believe.

Here is a snippet from this Psychological report that I've managed to find which may be of interest:


SUMMARY FOR PROBATION OFFICER'S REPORT:

This 13 year old well built boy has superior mental resources and functions only slightly below his capacity level in spite of chronic truancy from school which brought him into Youth House. No finding of neurological impairment or psychotic mental changes could be made. Lee has to be diagnosed as "personality pattern disturbance with schizoid features and passive - aggressive tendencies." Lee has to be seen as an emotionally, quite disturbed youngster who suffers under the impact of really existing emotional isolation and deprivation, lack of affection, absence of family life and rejection by a selfinvolved and conflicted mother.

Although Lee denies that he is in need of any other form of help other than "remedial" one, we gained the definite impression that Lee can be reached through contact with an understanding and very patient psychotherapist and if he could be drawn at the same time into group psychotherapy. We arrive therefore at the recommendation that he should be placed on probation under the condition that he seek help and guidance through contact with a child guidance clinic, where he should be treated preferably by a male psychiatrist who could substitute, to a certain degree at least, for the lack of a father figure.

At the same time, his mother should be urged to seek psychotherapeutic guidance through contact with a family agency. If this plan does not work out favorably and Lee cannot cooperate in this treatment plan on an out-patient's basis, removal from the home and placement could be resorted to at a later date, but it is our definite impression that treatment on probation should be tried out before the stricter and therefore possibly more harmful placement approach is applied to the case of this boy. The Big Brother Movement could be undoubtedly of tremendous value in this case and Lee should be urged to join the organized group activities of his community, such as provided by the PAL or YMCA of his neighborhood.

(signature)

Renatus Hartogs, M.D., Ph.D.,

Senior Psychiatrist.



Here is the Full Psychiatrists report on Lee Harvey Oswald, Aged 13



Now, It was at this point in his life that Oswald started showing signs of being a die hard communist, something we've been led to believe was the contributing factor to why he committed the crimes he is alleged to have committed in 1963. It was also around this time though (Now aged approximately 13 - 15) that he had decided to join the New Orleans Civil Air Patrol also (please make sure to read the next section of this thread as I go onto explain why I believe he did this despite claiming he was a communist).

Upon joining the Civil Air Patrol, he actually went onto meet David Ferrie (one of the leaders here and one of the men whom is said to have Introduced Oswald to the Mafia and the reason why he was eventually arrested for the murder of 2 men in the first place) - David ferrie being someone who became a very well known name when It comes to the JFK Assassination and someone who many still believe was one of the shooters although not much can be brought forth in favor of this theory at all in all honesty.

Here is a picture of them both together:



An image of the young Oswald in the Civil Air Patrol:



Then he went onto join the Marine Corps. An interesting decision despite claiming at around this time that he was a die hard communist, is it not?

Well, I believe I have come across an explanation for why Oswald showed signs of being a communist and at the same time why he decided to join organisations that are actually hell bent on the demise of Communism.

Now, It was around this time in Oswalds life that he seemingly began his obsession with a man whom became his hero. This man was called Herbert Philbrick - someone who has seemingly become very important to Oswald, perhaps filling in the missing role model Oswald was certainly without.

You see, as I said Oswald was absolutely obsessed with this man, he was his hero after all as well as being a popular figure to many American Civilians also. It more than seems as though Oswald may have been trying to replicate the actions of his hero and in many aspects of his life and his actions also - actions centered around communism.

I would assume that since Oswald failed to have any kind of father role model in his life, something which I believe was the reason why he was such a rebellious child growing up, Philbrick acted as one to him. Again, remember that Oswalds own father passed away just prior to Lee being born.

Please don't forget Also that Oswald was more than serious in his pursuit of joining organisations whom's primary goal was murdering Communists, something which can be shown here as Oswald later decided to go from joining the Civil air patrol (at a time he was obsessed with Philbrick) to later joining the Marine Corps as I previously mentioned.

Upon entering the marines:







It doesn't seem to make sense at this point does it? Oswald had claimed to anyone who would listen that he was a die hard communist and at the same time he displayed actions of tremendous patriotism, and what did Herbert Philbrick do to have such an impact on the life of Oswald? Well, in this next section, I believe I can shed some light on this. Please continue reading..

- Oswald a communist? Really?? No, I don't think so

Now, It's no secret that Oswald told everyone he was a die hard communist. He told his wife, he told his mother, he told his brother, he told anyone who would be willing to listen. But even so, I have reason to be suspicious of this and please allow me the time to explain why.

You see, not many seem to be aware of this, but as a youngster, Oswald was nothing short of being obsessed with one man - the man I briefly mentioned above - Herbert Philbrick (see below)



Now, you might ask why would this matter in the slightest? Why would it matter who, as a youngster, Oswald was obsessed with? Well, after taking a look at both men, certain odd similarities seem to appear, similarities which could tell us a great deal about Oswald's true intentions in some of his activities, again, as I already mentioned - ones which we have been led to believe mean one thing when in reality, It more than likely means something completely different.

You see, It was around 13 - 15 that a young Oswald began learning about Philbrick (Approximately 1953) and what he did to gain his fame. It was also quite conveniently at around this time that Oswald started to show signs of being a "commie" - at one point getting into trouble at school for refusing to salute the flag. It was also at this time that he started to show interest in the civil air patrol also. Coincidence?...

Well, to gain a better understanding of this, we must firstly learn about Philbrick. And quite simply he was hailed as a true American hero at the height of his fame - around the time Oswald showed interest in him. How did he gain this fame you may ask? Well he led 3 very different lives all in all. The first of which was as an Average American, the second of which was as a spy working for the FBI and the third was a "pretend die hard commie" infiltrating communist groups of interest.

Particularly the Communist Party USA between 1940 and 1949 - something he managed to do with a great deal of success. He even convinced those closest to him in the world that he was in fact a die hard communist despite in reality, he was the complete opposite. Opposite in the most accurate form actually. I believe at one point he even joined the Young Communist League also - Something that, as I understand it, Oswald conveniently attempted at one point during his youth although never pursued seriously of course.

It seems Oswald was merely mimicking his hero here and in many other instances also and over the years these things have been twisted around by those whom could benefit from this being twisted around, in order to make a certain profile suitable for someone whom just shot the president of the United States - It never really had anything to do with Oswald having a particular love for communism, he hated it. Just like Philbrick did.

Although I believe he hated communism, like his hero, Oswald remained to act upon the opposite still - particularly in the Marine Corps. Here's a snippet of what one of his "army buddies", Richard Dennis Call, said about him:


Although members of the unit often had discussions on foreign affairs, Oswald sledom, if ever, participated.

During this time, Oswald was studying Russian. For this reason many members of the unit kidded him about being a Russian spy; Oswald seemed to enjoy this sort of remark. At that time I had a phonograph record of Russian classical pieces entitled "Russian Fireworks." When I wold play this record, Oswald would come over to me and say "You called?"

I had a chess set which contained red and white chessmen; Oswald always chose the red chessmen, making some remark to the effect that he preferred the "Red Army." In connection with this general joking about Oswald's interest in Russian, he was nicknamed "Oswaldskovich." However, I do not recall Oswald's making serious remarks with regard to the Soviet Union or Cuba.
(Source)

These sort of remarks were well known to have occurred on a regular basis - something Oswald seemingly didn't do much to stop at all - and most, if not all, who came into contact with him knew of them. Here is what another army buddy, Erwin Donald Lewis, once claimed about him:


Oswald, a radar operator, was very quiet, kept to himself, and did not appear to have any close friends. To the best of my knowledge, he seldom left the base.

It was a matter of common knowledge among squadron members that he could read, write, and speak Russian.
(Source)

It seems if anything, Oswald was more than happy for these kinds of comments to continue and was at the very least, happy to let it be known that he had certain connections to communism etc..

As well as this though, Oswald was said to have been given particularly special missions while in the Marines also - It was said that while stationed at the Atsugi naval air station in Japan, in 1958 - 1959, Oswald received one of his very first intelligence missions. It seems that some of the local prostitutes were passing on intelligence to the soviets, or they were suspected of such things anyway as many of the marines acted as customers for them and were often asked suspicious questions by them.

One of Oswald's first missions was to infiltrate them, and find information. Owen Dejanovich, one of the marines stationed with Oswald, once reported in the popular PBS documentary about Oswald, Titled: Who was Lee Harvey Oswald, that he saw Oswald heading to a designated "off-limits" area with a Eurasian woman - one whom he more than likely to gather intelligence from.

It seems that Oswald was charged up to 100 dollars a night by this prostitute and at the same time his entire salary per month was at the time less than 85 It's claimed. If this was an Intelligence mission It's claimed Oswald was being aided financially by his superiors for it.

Please take the time to read a snippet from this fascinating Interview of David Bucknall with the well known researcher, Mark Lane. Some startling revelations appear, if true, which could show some light on exactly why Oswald was behaving the way he was, and going to Off-limits areas as well as why he eventually led to discharge from the military and defecting to the soviet union only to later return disappointed upon stepping off the plane to greet his brother in 1962 (well, his brother claimed upon meeting him that he seemed disappointed there was no media report about his return - all seemingly explained below).


Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell…

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a “security” or “security-intelligence” operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman

Regarding Oswald’s tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against “Communists” in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.
(Source)

Notice something particularly interesting about the last portion of this interview? Oswald would soon to be discharged from the Marine Cops to be sent to the Soviet Union on an Assignment - And defect here he most certainly did...

- The Defection to the Soviets - Was he working with the US Government all along?

An image of Oswald around the time of his defection to the Soviet Union in around 1959.



In September 1959, after discharging from active duty, Oswald now began to make plans to travel to the Soviet Union, something David Bucknall claimed he was informed to do as It was an American Intelligence mission - something which makes a great deal of sense upon looking at how long Oswald spent here, who his acquaintances were, where he wished to travel to exactly, and of course due to him being able to return to the US again in the future with extreme ease despite technically being a traitor to the country. Oh, and along with a Russian wife and child.

This will be explained in a bit more detail later on in this section of the thread, for now though, let me explain Oswald's trip. Firstly, Let's not forget that Oswald was said to have been given money to aid him in one of his previous missions in Atsugi, Japan. Therefore, It isn't totally out of the question to at the very least suggest he had been given money for this mission also - assuming this certainly was a mission as It so seems.

The reason I bring this up now Is it's said that Oswald, according to records, had the maximum sum of around 200 dollers in his possession - he himself claimed on the contrary that he had saved well over 1500 and had that in his possession. So one can at least assume he may have been aided in his travels now like previously.

His travels were quite varied also It seems. It was very shortly after he discharged from the military that he had applied for a passport at the Superior Court of Santa Ana, Calif. I believe his application was to leave the United States stated on September the 21st to attend the Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland and the University of Turku in Finland, and then to travel in Cuba, the Dominican Republic, England, France, Germany, and also Russia Itself.

By the 14th of this very same month, his passport had then been issued and he arrived in Fort Worth where he had lived. By the 17th, Oswald filled out a "Passenger Immigration Questionnaire," in which he stated that he would be abroad for 2 months on a "pleasure trip".

He then left for France shortly afterwards, and arrived in early October. Then he left for England as soon as he arrived. I believe he then told English customs officials in Southampton that he had $700 left and he planned to remain in the United Kingdom for 1 week before proceeding to a school in Switzerland. But on the same day, he flew to Helsinki, Finland.

Soon after arriving here, he applied for a Russian Visa as this was one of the quickest locations a visa could be obtained quickly. It was approved and was made valid valid until the 21st of October. Oswald then finally arrived in Moscow on the 16th of October, 1959.

Upon arriving though, He seemingly made no plans to leave. I believe this is a letter Oswald wrote on the same day of his arrival in the Soviet Union:



It translates to:


Oct. 16, 1959

To the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.


I Lee Harvey Oswald, request that I be granted citizenship in the Soviet Union. My visa began on Oct. 15, and will expire on Oct. 21. I must be granted asylum before this date, while I wait for the citizenship decision.

At present I am a citizen of the United States of America.

I want citizenship because; I am a communist and a worker. I have lived in a decadent capitalist society where the workers are slaves. I am twenty years old, I have completed three years in the United States Marine Corps, I served with the occupation forces in Japan. I have seen American imperialism in all its forms.

I do not want to return to any country outside of the Soviet Union.

I am willing to give up my American citizenship and assume the responsibilities of a Soviet citizen.

I had saved my money which I earned as a private in the American military for two years, in order to come to Russia for the express purpose of seeking citizenship here. I do not have enough money left to live indefinitely here, or to return to any other country. I have no desire to return to any other country. I ask that my request be given quick consideration.

Sincerely,

Lee H. Oswald


As well as this letter above, Oswald shows other signs of having no intention to leave as he previously told his designated tour guide - He was issued a tour guide called Rimma Semenova Shirakova, age twenty-two, as he was travelling as a Deluxe class tourist - that day that no had no intentions of doing so:


In Rimma's account as described by Norman Mailer in Oswald's Tale (pp.44-45) (he only paraphrases her), Oswald told her did not want to return to the US--there was no sense to it. His mother had remarried and was no longer interested in him. Nobody was interested in him. When he served as a Marine in the Far East he had seen much suffering and the US had fomented unjust wars in which he did not want to take part. She had the impression that he had seen combat. He had read that the Soviet people lived good, useful, and very peaceful lives and he had come here to see this for himself. Now he wanted to stay, he repeated. This was a proper country for his political views.

Rimma gives Oswald the nickname Alek because Lee sounds too Chinese and confuses the Russians. Oswald will adopt this name for the remainder of his stay in Russia.
(Source)

Here's an interesting snippet from this source on what occurred the next day, the 17th of October:


We have no precise information on what Lee Harvey Oswald did on Saturday, October 17, his second day in Moscow. We know more today about what the Soviet authorities were doing.

On October 17, the Secretary of the Soviet Presidium, M.P. Georgadze, forwarded a translation of Oswald's letter to the KGB, referenced file "No. 435 October 17, 1959." The enclosed translation contained an error. Whereas Oswald stated he served three years in the Marines, the Russian translator wrote that Oswald had "completed three years in a US naval academy." That alone must have left a negative impression on the KGB, as Oswald stated in the same letter that he served as a private. It was not a good sign that their subject after three years in a naval academy did not rise above the rank of private. The first impression must have been that either Oswald was a total foul-up, or a liar, or mentally unstable, or all three. And first impressions, as they say, are the most important.

In his diary Oswald writes:

Oct. 17.

Rima meets me for Intourist sightseeing, says we must continue with this although I am too nervous, she is "sure" I'll have an answer soon. Asks me about myself and my reasons for doing this. I explain I am a communist, etc. She is politely sympathetic, but uneasy now. She tries to be a friend to me. She feels sorry for me; I am something new.
(Source)

On Oswalds Third day in the Soviet Union, his birthday in fact, he made it known to Rimma that he desperately wished to remain in the Soviet Union once more. Even offering to give up certain American military secrets that he had in his possession - Ones which I would assume would be purposefully false assuming Oswald was working as a spy at this time. Remember It's claimed he purposefully passed on false information in his Intelligence mission in Atsuki, Japan?

This was reported to the KGB and by the 20th I believe Oswald was interviewed. Again, I will use this source of mine to explain in detail what happened exactly as well as show points of interest:


According to KGB Colonel Oleg Nechiporenko's 1993 book, Passport to Assassination, Oswald was first debriefed by a senior professional intelligence officer from the KGB's First Chief Directorate (Intelligence), 15th Department (Tourists), on October 20, 1959. The debriefing was conducted by Abram Shaknazarov, a veteran of the Soviet secret police since the 1920's. For the purposes of the interview, Shaknazarov posed as an official from OVIR (the Visa and Registration Agency) which technically was the conduit for Oswald's request to remain in the USSR. The interview lasted for approximately ninety minutes.

If, as Nechiporenko claims, Skaknazarov was a veteran of the security forces since the 1920's, he must have been a remarkable personality. He not only witnessed and participated in the Stalin purges of the 1930's, the Second World War, and the execution of his boss Beria following Stalin's death--but he also survived these events! (According to historian Robert Conquest, 20,000 Soviet security officers were shot in the Stalin purges--the majority being "old generation" NKVD officers like Shaknazarov.) How did as experienced a KGB officer as Shaknazarov miss the hints that Oswald was dropping in the previous days that he had something of value to offer the Soviets? Or did Oswald backtrack on his offer during the interview? As Shaknazarov is no doubt as dead as Oswald is today, we will probably never know until the KGB opens their file on the specifics of that interview

Is Nechiporenko to be believed? Nechiporenko was a senior KGB officer who claims to have met (along with KGB officer Velery Kostikov) Oswald in Mexico City during his alleged visit to the Soviet Embassy there in 1963. Nechiporenko in writing his book, claims to have had access in 1992-1993 to some KGB files on Oswald. There is no doubt that Oleg Nechiporenko was a senior KGB officer in the highly sensitive Mexico KGB rezidentura. His history was well known prior to his book although nobody had known he had been with Kostikov during Oswald's visit at the Soviet Embassy. With the kind of seniority he enjoyed in the 1960's (he was expelled from Mexico in 1971) it is conceivable that by the 1990's he could have sufficient power in the KGB to be able to call on Oswald's files. Some (although not specifically this one) Nechiporenko's claims are being confirmed by the files released in 1999 by Yeltsin.

In Mailer's interview with Shirakova, she falls silent on what she and Oswald did on that day. Shirakova only says that on Tuesday evening she was informed that Oswald would not be allowed to remain in the USSR.

In his diary, Oswald writes:

Oct. 20. Rimma in the afternoon says Intourist was notified by the pass & visa department [OVIR] that they want to see me; I am excited greatly by this news.

On the same date, the deputy chief of the KGB, Alexander Perepelitsyn, signs a form letter from the KGB to the Supreme Soviet Secretary, stating that in their opinion, granting Oswald citizenship is "inadvisable" or "pointless." (netselesoobraznim) This is a term that will appear in Oswald's Soviet files for some time to come, which could mean both, "inadvisable" or "pointless." In interpreting the KGB's evaluation of Oswald as a potential defector, the ambiguity of the term will be problematic within the limited scope of the documents declassified in 1999. If "unadvisable" it may suggest that the KGB fears that Oswald might be a security threat; if "pointless" it suggests that Oswald is considered worthless as an intelligence source.



Here is the declining letter, de-classified in 1999:



It was the very day after this that Oswald was said to have attempted suicide and the same day his visa was said to have run out. Assuming he was working for American Intelligence, perhaps he was disappointed about failing as such and this was the true cause for his attempted suicide?

Just a thought of course.

Please watch the very beginning of this fascinating video to hear Rimma's recollection of finding Oswald in a bathtub full of his own blood after previously slitting his left wrist:

A CLOSER LOOK AT OSWALD

________________________________________





This above video also explains how Oswalds true love for communism was to be revealed also - and how It wasn't how we think it is today - as well as how the KGB saw him (they were suspicious of him as they quickly realized he wasn't a Marxist in anyway whatsoever thus immediately brining up the question of why he was really here in the first place).

In this video, Oswalds own brother also goes onto explain how Oswald was disappointed upon his return to the US specifically because there were no reporters. At this point, let me remind all those reading what David Bucknall had previously said in an interview about why Oswald was really in the Soviet Union:

"Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero."

He would be seen as a hero upon his return in 1961 (Oswald ended up returning in 1962 still. Although It was 1961 when he started writing letters of how he didn't enjoy living in the soviet Union anymore). I theorize that due to the lack of media attention Oswald himself was expecting, this was the true reason for his disappointment. It never had anything to with Oswald having to leave a communist environment like some have claimed. He hated Communism.

Anyway, upon this attempted suicide, one which obviously wasn't a genuine attempt at killing himself going from the severity of the wound he sustained, Oswald was placed in a psychiatry ward in a local hospital. Rimma comes to visit him the next day. She recalls in 1991:

"he appeared pale but was sitting up on the edge of his bed. His arm was bandaged and in a sling. They joked lightly but never spoke of his "suicide attempt" then or later. His hotel room, she told me, was vacated of his things and assigned to somebody else. "

Oswald wrote in his diary, that he was using during his entire time in the Soviet Union, of the events also:


Oct. 22. Hospital - I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon I am visited by Rimma. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter she must ask me medical questions: Did you know what you were doing? Answer, "yes". Did you blackout? No, etc. I then complain about poor food; the doctors laugh, apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave. I am alone with Rimma (amongst the mentally ill) she encourages me and scolds me, she says she will help me get transferred to another section of the hospital (not for insane) where food is good.
(Source)

Here are the records of Oswalds second ever (the previous one has been added previously in this thread) psychiatry analysis:





Here is, I believe, a medical report released by the USSR also:



Here is his rejection letter in PDF format also..

It seemed that since his Visa was about to run out, He was attempting to stall if anything... Oh, and it obviously worked as he was then allowed to remain in Soviet Russia.

Assuming Oswald was indeed on some sort of Intelligence mission also, an interesting point to note is that he is alleged to have attempted to apply to the Lalumba University in Moscow. Upon rejection though, is when he seemed to make the decision to commit suicide or make it seem as so. Tying this in with the fact he was on his last day in Russia and this appeared to be a failed mission

Why would this matter though? Well, the Lalumba University seemed to be no normal university, It seemed to be a breeding ground for revolutionaries and of great interest to American Intelligence also.

Please also watch the above video again as this university is briefly explained. Here is an interesting snippet also of what occurred after Oswald's "suicide attempt" as well as how he was being seen as highly suspicious by the KGB and suspected of being on some sort of Intelligence mission:


On October 31, Oswald appeared at the United States embassy in Moscow, declaring a desire to renounce his U.S. citizenship. John McVickar, an official at the U.S. embassy, felt that Oswald, "...was following a pattern of behavior in which he had been tutored by [a] person or persons unknown...seemed to be using words which he had learned but did not fully understand...in short, it seemed to me that there was a possibility that he had been in contact with others before or during his Marine Corps tour who had guided him and encouraged him in his actions."

Oswald told the interviewing officer at the U.S. embassy, Richard Snyder, "...that he had been a radar operator in the Marine Corps and that he had voluntarily stated to unnamed Soviet officials[when?] that as a Soviet citizen he would make known to them such information concerning the Marine Corps and his speciality as he possessed.

He intimated that he might know something of special interest." (Such statements led to Oswald's hardship/honorable military discharge being changed to undesirable.) The Associated Press story of the defection of a U.S. Marine to the Soviet Union was reported on the front pages of some newspapers in 1959.[36]
(Source)

After this whole ordeal, Oswald was in fact eventually granted permission to remain in the soviet Union, as I previously mentioned, but on a "one-year temporary residency." He was shortly afterwards, in 1960, sent to Minsk to work as an assembler at a radio and television factory - something which seemingly distressed Oswald a great deal as he was hoping to be allowed to study in University in Moscow. Or so he claimed (remember the nature of this university I briefly mentioned).


Rimma Shirakova states that he was deeply disappointed; Oswald hoped he would be allowed to study in University in Moscow. He wept bitterly, she said.

On January 4, 1960, Oswald was issued a Soviet internal passport, citing his citizenship as "stateless." It was valid for one year. He was given a one-time grant of 5000 old rubles ($500) to settle his hotel bill and purchase a train ticket for Minsk. There would also be a monthly subsidy of 70 new rubles ($70) from the Soviet Red Cross.
(Source)

He was said to have been under constant surveillance for the duration of his time here also.

It was also here that Oswald seemed to meet and then go onto marry, Marina Prusakova (see below).



What's particularly interesting about Marina and this marriage is that she and Oswald were to actually become married with-in a mere 6 weeks of meeting for the first time. It was also conveniently around this time that Oswald started becoming disillusioned with life in Russia and started showing signs that he wanted to leave and return to the US again.

Coincidence? Perhaps..

Here are some images of them:







Marina originally moved to Misnk, the city where she met Oswald, in 1957 and lived with her uncle during her time here. Her uncle, Ilya Prusakova, actually worked at the Ministry of Internal Affairs (He was the American Equivalent of the FBI I believe) at this moment in time.

It's unclear whether Marina herself was the target of an Intelligence mission as she may have held secrets her uncle possessed, but like I said, a mere 6 weeks of meeting for the first time was enough to consider marrying Lee Oswald whom then wished to return to the US shortly afterwards. Breeding grounds for pure speculation It would seem.

They also had a daughter here (could this explain why Oswald returned a year after he said he would?) - June Oswald - and together, they all left for the United States in 1962.

- Return to the US

Image of Lee and Marina Oswald as they prepare to return to the United States.



Now, I'd like to ask at this point whether anyone reading thinks It's the least bit suspect that Oswald would be allowed to return to the Unites States once again as easy as this was? Not forgetting how fast (as he defected a mere couple of years before). He was classified an official traitor to the country as he defected to the soviet Union after all. But, as I've made it known, I'm a firm believer he was in fact working with the US government all along - and this is why It was so easy.

A theory still but It seems plausible unless shown otherwise..

And It seems I'm not alone in my thinking here as Marina Oswald, his wife and the person who was supposed to be closest to him thought the same. In an interview she conducted in, I believe 1988 (could be mistaken), she claimed: ''I'm not saying that Lee is innocent, that he didn't know about the conspiracy or was not a part of it, but I am saying he's not necessarily guilty of murder. At first, I thought that Jack Ruby (who killed Oswald two days after the assassination) was swayed by passion; all of America was grieving. But later, we found that he had connections with the underworld. Now, I think Lee was killed to keep his mouth shut.''

''I believe he worked for the American government... He was taught the Russian language when he was in the military. Do you think that is usual, that an ordinary soldier is taught Russian? Also, he got in and out of Russia quite easily, and he got me out quite easily.''

Marina later remarried and became known as Marina Oswald Porter. In the 1990s she became involved in a campaign to clear the name if her former husband. In April 1996 she wrote that: "At the time of the assassination of this great president whom I loved, I was misled by the "evidence" presented to me by government authorities and I assisted in the conviction of Lee Harvey Oswald as the assassin. From the new information now available, I am now convinced that he was an FBI informant and believe that he did not kill President Kennedy."

I haven't been able to obtain this video, I believe it was taken off of youtube and is now nowhere to be seen. Again though, I could be mistaken. This being so, here is another interview of Marina Oswald by interviewer Jack Anderson that I did manage to find:

AN INTERVIEW WITH MARINA OSWALD

________________________________________





Anyway, upon the return to the US by both Oswald and Marina..Not forgetting there daughter whom was born in Russia, June I believe, Oswald seemed disappointed stepping off the plane according to his brother. And at this time, please let me refresh your memory once more about a certain interview I previously highlighted.

The part of this interview of interest here is bolded:


Regarding Oswald’s tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against “Communists” in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.


Notice something here? Oswald was asking his brother where the reporters were and he had allegedly previously informed a marine buddy that upon his return he would be hailed as a hero upon stepping on American soil again. Again I theorize that if this was indeed true, the serious lack of attention was the true reason behind Oswald being disappointed here? He didn't get the attention he was promised..Or expected.

Seems like it to me at least. So, maybe there really was something in what was said in this interview, particularly when It was mentioned Oswald was sent to the Soviet Union on an Intelligence mission. He did stay for a very short period of time after all and let's not forget he married and then moved to the united states, with tremendous ease, after only meeting Marina, whom was close to her Uncle who was working as the equivalent of an FBI spy, 6 weeks prior.

It's all speculation unfortunately but as the saying goes, where there is smoke, there is most probably fire.

This is all rather peculiar behaviour indeed from Oswald though, still. But is there any other reason to be suspicious here? Well, according to Donald deneselya (sp?), Oswald upon his return to the US had stopped off in Washington - something his mother claimed also as she was sent a letter from Lee confirming this - he even reports seeing Oswalds very own De-briefing papers as the whole point of stopping off here was to be de-briefed after his intelligence mission.

Again, this giving us reason to believe there is some truth to this previous interview which states Oswald was working with the Unites States government all along at this point - much like his hero, Herbert Philbrick.

Please again watch this video I've previously posted. Please watch from 3:10 - 5:00 where this is highlighted and discussed in more detail. A tape of this interview with deneselya is shown briefly also:

A CLOSER LOOK AT OSWALD - THE RETURNED SPY

________________________________________





Here are videos of Marguerite Oswald reading out the letters she received from Oswald, which may be of interest at this point also:

MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART 1

________________________________________





MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART 2

________________________________________





MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART 3

________________________________________





MARGUERITE OSWALD READS LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S LETTERS, PART 4

________________________________________





- 2 Assassination attempts, adjusting to life in America, freedom for Cuba, the FBI and the possible preparation of a patsy

By early 1963, and now living in America once more - this time with his new Russian wife, Oswald supposedly began planning an assassination attempt, not against the President of the United States though, but against Major General Edwin Anderson Walker (see below).



This was not as It would seem though. Oswald wasn't ever suspected of this until after the assassination of the President and J.D.Tippit themselves. Despite there even being witness's to the shooting also, Oswald was actually never suspected until he could no longer speak up for himself. This simple fact being one many seem to conveniently forget.

One witness was, I believe, a man called Kirk Coleman and he recalled seeing not 1, but 2 men attempt to make there escape from the residence of General Walker, whom was wounded by a snipers shot but not fatally. Coleman claimed one stopped to place something in the back of his Ford sedan, then they both drove off in different cars.

I'll note at this point that Oswald couldn't drive therefore further cause for the suspicion as to as to whether he really was involved in this assassination attempt has to be raised.

This being so though, upon returning home though that evening, It's claimed that Marina asked Oswald where he had been and this is what she claimed:


Marina Oswald later claimed that on 10th April, 1963, Oswald attempted to assassinate General Edwin Walker, a right-wing political leader. She reported that she "asked him what happened, and he said that he just tried to shoot General Walker. I asked him who General Walker was. I mean how dare you to go and claim somebody's life, and he said "Well, what would you say if somebody got rid of Hitler at the right time? So if you don't know about General Walker, how can you speak up on his behalf?." Because he told me... he was something equal to what he called him a fascist."
(Source)

Ok, going back to a previous point - the point being that Oswald was only suspected of this assassination attempt after the assassination of JFK - Around 6 months later. And Why was he suspected some may ask? Well, he was suspected because they (the authorities put in charge of searching his home after he is said to have assassinated the president) had allegedly found a photograph of Walker's home found among Oswald's possessions.

When the photograph was turned over to the Warren Commission by the FBI, a hole had been pushed through it right in the spot where the license plate on the car had been, the one Coleman had seen, making the car unidentifiable (it did not belong to Walker btw). Another photograph, taken by the Dallas police, showed Oswald's possessions laid out on the floor of police headquarters. This included the photograph of Walker's home, without the hole obscuring the license plate.

Marina also once claimed this though:


Marina Oswald stated later that she had seen Oswald burn most of his plans in the bathtub, though she hid the note he left her in a cookbook, with the intention of bringing it to the police should Oswald again attempt to kill Walker or anyone else.
(Source)

Oswald was burning his images of General Walker and his home. How stupid are we supposed to be here? Are we really going to believe that Oswald, on purpose, conveniently left incriminating evidence against himself - evidence to be found at a later date? I just don't buy it. That's just me though. Anyway, the only thing that was, or should have been left, was the note Oswald left to Marina - this note now being out of his possession and in the hands of Marina. Btw, the note was for "he was caught" (He allegedly did the same thing on the 22nd of November, 1963).

Suspicions again should be raised as to why It was only after Oswald was dead, and unable to speak up, as to why these images tying him to the Generl walker assassination, surfaced. Perhaps they were planted?

Anyway, after this supposed Assassination attempt, Oswald began writing to the Fair Play for Cuba committee, he then eventually started "renting a small office at my own expense for the purpose of forming a FPCC branch here in New Orleans". Three days later, without waiting for a reply, Oswald then went onto order appropriately 1,000 copies of a handbill from a local printers. It read: "Hands Off Cuba! Join the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, New Orleans Charter Member Branch, Free Literature, Lectures, Everyone Welcome!" (Images of Oswald handing out these leaflets are posted below)

Oswald rented an office for the FPCC at 544 Camp Street also. No one joined the FPCC in New Orleans however, but Oswald did send out two honourary membership cards to Gus Hall and Benjamin Davis, two senior members of the American Communist Party. Perhaps this was yet another Intelligence mission Oswald was taking part in..

Sometime in mid August though, Oswald was involved in an incident while handing out these leaflets. I believe a fight broke out between him and a man called Carlos Bringuier. If this was an Intelligence mission, It worked as the Fair Play For Cuba Committee was to be closed down for around 90 days specifically due to this incident.





Bringuier and Oswald a couple of days later actually got the chance to debate each other on the Bill Stuckey Radio Show. This can be heard here:

DEBATE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD VS. CARLOS BRINGUIER & ED BUTLER, PART 1

________________________________________





DEBATE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD VS. CARLOS BRINGUIER & ED BUTLER, PART 2

________________________________________





What's actually rather about this interesting incident, and one which causes suspiciousness, is that Oswald wrote about this exact incident (being attacked by Cuban Exiles) occurring 5 days before It actually had done. It seemed if anything, that this was a staged fight. Further reasoning to believe this can be found as Bringuier was found in possession of a Guidebook for Marines, one which was allegedly owned by Oswald.

On Oswald's leaflets given out in New Orleans, was the address 544 Camp Street, New Orleans. This was also the address of the office used by Bringuier. It was also around the corner from 531 Lafayette Street, which housed the detective agency run by Guy Bannister, another man accused of being involved in the assassination.

Not forgetting that while being placed in a jail cell for this incident, ask who Oswald decided to ring on his one and only phone call? Yup, It was the FBI - specifically an agent called John L. Quigley - because of all of this, some believe this entire incident was a coverup for A.) Shutting down the Fair Play for Cuba Committee for a short while and B.) For a de-briefing meeting. Suspicions were further raised when Quigley destroyed all notes from this meeting he had with Oswald also.

As I previously said, this then led to the famous radio debate between Oswald and Bringuier which is linked above. It was this very radio Interview where Oswald was exposed for living in and defecting to the Soviet Union. It's possible It was at around this time Oswald was unwillingly being prepped as a patsy by tying him to communist activities (defecting to Russia, being a member of the Fair Play for Cuba committee etc..).

It was now September 1963, a mere 2 months before the assassination of Kennedy where Oswald and Marina then made the decision to move to Dallas, Texas to have there second child (I believe this was Rachel whom was mentioned near the beginning of this thread). It was at around this time that Oswald was spotted with people like David Ferrie, Clay Shaw (both men were put on trial by Jim Garrison suspected of being involved in the JFK Assassination) as well as more alleged FBI Officials also. Ones he allegedly had "secret meetings" with.

Before going to Dallas with his wife though, Oswald began visiting Mexico City where he then attempted to Obtain permission to travel to Cuba. This was turned down and after trying to obtain a visa to once more return to the Soviet Union he arrived in Dallas in October, 1963 to join his wife.

It was here that Marina and June (their eldest child) were now living with a woman called Ruth Paine. This is quite significant as It was Ruth Paine, someone who is of no suspicion, who was the one who eventually found Oswald a job in the Texas School Book Depository building - the very same one where he is claimed to have fired his bullets, fatally wounding President John F. Kennedy and then making his escape only to run into J.D.Tippit who he then allegedly went onto shoot and kill approximately 40 minutes later, also.

In this next section of this thread, I'll attempt to shed some light on exactly what Oswald did on the 22nd of November 1963 as well as establishing whether his actions are in coherce with someone about to Assassinate the president of the United States of America and a supposed Innocent police officer..

November 22nd, 1963 - The day a president died

 




As I've made it more than clear up until this point, I'm under the impression that Oswald was in fact no such thing as a communist. Something we've been led to believe he was over the years. I'd go as far as saying he was a acting as one purposefully and he was also an agent for the Unites States Government, something his wife and his own mother also strongly believe.

This being so, I don't want it to seem like I don't in anyway believe Oswald was involved in the assassination of JFK and that he was completely unfairly designated as a patsy and nothing more as I believe that to be completely untrue - instead, he was more than certainly involved in some way or another, IMO. More than probably anyway. But the questions I want to ask are, did he shoot Kennedy? Is what we have been told about him true? And so on..

Like before, I don't want to follow the trend of just looking at how Oswald could have shot him, I wish to look at whether it itself (the shooting) is plausible and or possible.

Bearing this in mind:

(Please see the next post. Thanks.
)
edit on 29-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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ermm..... wow



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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I expected nothing less than this from you!



Proudly Starred and Flagged.
This is the type of thread that attracted me to ATS in the first place. Very well thought out, concise and easily read. You've kept it and it's details true to context and time lines. Very good research and nicely done with the supportive links.





posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Here's my analysis. Being raised in a wealthy family and taught you are genetically superior to humanity who are just beasts of burden, and that you are doing God's will when you're groomed to fulfill various elite positions and control, starve, murder, torture, and commit warfare and nuclear warfare against citizens over and over again.

The prime mindset of a killer.
edit on 29-4-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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The evidence you present here RA, is top notch and very compelling - In short, this thread is amazingly well done just like your other JFK threads are. You are one hell of a researcher! The photo manipulation analysis is very thought provoking.

S + F



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Thanks for the kind words Slayer. Appreciated.


Hopefully this entire theory I added here will make, at the very least, some shred of sense to those who decide to read it.
edit on 29-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Read through the whole thread, which is really huge, but it was well worth it! S&F (naturally!) Thanks for investing so much time for such an in-depth analysis of L.H.O.

Lee Harvey Oswald, at the wrong time at the wrong place? I highly doubt that!
Might he have become the fall guy of an enormous conspriacy that he was part of? Very likely!



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by hhcore
 


Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed reading.





posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by SunLightyear
 



Lee Harvey Oswald, at the wrong time at the wrong place? I highly doubt that!
Might he have become the fall guy of an enormous conspriacy that he was part of? Very likely!


I couldn't agree more.


I hope I showed it adequately enough in my OP.

Thanks for the kind words also..
edit on 29-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Anyone have a list of the people he served with or under in his various organizations?



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Idonthaveabeard
ermm..... wow


I'll take that to mean a good thing, yes?




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Rising Against

Originally posted by Idonthaveabeard
ermm..... wow


I'll take that to mean a good thing, yes?



Ermm....double wow...


How awesome are you RA !!!

Wow !!



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Out of curiosity, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on anything relating to Oswald, or anything else I happened to bring up in this thread?



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


This is outrageously well thought out and done Rise Against. And let me tell you, I RARELY say things of this nature to anyone. I also very rarely give out stars and flags, but in this case it is indeed warranted.

I'm also a big fan of the Kennedy's and their subsequent demise. We can postulate all we want to about it, but I think it is far more likely that LHO was indeed the patsy he claimed to be than not. The thing that has eluded me for years is Perries involvement in it all, or, rather, the why? Don't get me wrong, I understand he was a pilot and (basically) mercenary, but he was also an attention fiend. Even back then, good attention or bad attention unless as a diversion, were no-no's in the clandestine world.

LHO was a smart guy, and my *personal* belief is that, for whatever reason I can't seem to wrap my hands around, he was a last minute contingency. I don't think he was ever meant to be there at all.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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Been a while since I have been on ATS and been even longer since I have posted something. But this thread dragged me back. Very well organized, great content and very well done my friend. My fear is that the Kennedy assassination has been hounded since the beginning with disinformation, not from the official documents, but from witnesses and other people. We have developed, and have seen a lot of hearsay and lies from witnesses and people "claiming" to "know" insider information that we will never know the truth due to this misinformation, whether accidental or purposefully has now caused such a rift that the possibly of knowing what truly happened is unknown. And Kennedy's death was just one of many assassinations at the time, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, Marilyn Monroe, and Many others as well. Was Oswald a hired gun? A spy? A MK Ultra experiment? A patsy? Who truly knows either way the evidence clearly dictates that he had something to do with the killing as you pointed out above. But as they say the guilty one is not the one who commits the sin, but the one who causes the thought/action. And for that I reference this video:


(click to open player in new window)


Ruby states: The assassination would have never have happened if Stevenson was vice president. When asked to repeat what he said, he stated that you should look at the man in office now.

Personally, I believe Oswald did NOT act alone, but that he did make the kill shot on Kennedy. A great analysis that I am probably going to have to read again to make sure I got everything. I just thought I would stop by and say great thread on Oswald. Keep it up bro.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Your research is without a doubt, impeccable.

This should be a book and I'd line up to buy it.

S & F



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 


Thanks for the kind words.


Out of curiosity though, what are your thoughts on Oswald? Replies have been pretty slow to this thread thus far and I'd really love to really hear some thoughts on some of the material I brought up.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


lol, Well, you always was a great poster, so I'm glad I was able to drag you back in here then.


Anyway, I couldn't agree more with that. The "dis-information" battle is more than present here in this case and It's seemingly been waging ever since there was a case to discuss in the first place. It's unavoidable really and JFK certainly isn't the only one to "suffer" from this type of unfortunate behavior of course..

Whether it be purposeful or accidental who knows, It doesn't really matter I suppose. It's there and It's happening.

This being so, I do find myself believing in the story of Jack Ruby - after the assassination as you highlighted - and how he went on to try and give us reason to be suspicious of the official story. The video you yourself posted, one I've seen countless times now, alone giving us plenty of reason to ask further questions. Whether It be a dis-information attempt or not, who knows. I do doubt that though, especially taking into consideration the series of events which led to his own demise.

You see, upon being the new President of the Unites States in the first place, we all know Johnson set up the warren commission, yes? Well, It seems as though he and Hoover actually set out bribe a certain important figure into conducting this, one I'm sure you know about already, Earl Warren himself:


After the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Johnson asked Warren if he would be willing to head the commission. Warren refused but it was later revealled that Johnson blackmailed him into accepting the post. In a telephone conversation with Richard B. Russell Johnson claimed: " Warren told me he wouldn't do it under any circumstances... I called him and ordered him down here and told me no twice and I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City... And he started crying and said, well I won't turn you down... I'll do whatever you say."
(Source)

This being so, and after practically revealing a conspiracy had indeed taken place, one which points to the new president, Ruby went onto request a move to a Washington jail as he was incarcerated for the murder of Oswald at the time and was seeing out his sentence in Texas, which is where he no longer felt safe. He claimed that if this move occurred he would reveal everything he knew.

Now, don't you think It's the least bit suspect that the very person whom is said to have stopped Ruby from his prison move to Washington from Dallas was none other than Earl Warren himself - the man bribed by Johnson - Johnson being the man whom Ruby was hinting at in the first place?

Could this simply be a coincidence? The conspiracy theorist in my says no.


Oh, and Ruby then went onto die shortly after this....



Personally, I believe Oswald did NOT act alone, but that he did make the kill shot on Kennedy.


I'm looking to start a thread in the future which hopefully refutes the latter of this as well btw.


Personally, I wouldn't ever say that Oswald didn't fire a shot, whether It be in Dealey Plaza or in Oak Cliff, but I'm convinced Oswald in no way fired a bullet which actually struck Kennedy himself.

The more plausible shot, this being the first shot, is one from the Dal-Tex building as opposed to the Texas School Book Depository building also, IMO.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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The thread was good until you got to the Oswald "faked" photo's that is a lot of nonsense to me, the face comparison's look totally different in my opinion the upper lip look's different on both pics and the shadow on "his"
left eye is bigger compared to the other pic.





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