Utnapishtim and Noah.... ***Warning*** Long but interesting read.

Ok ATS here is some ancient data that seems related to the great flood written in the many great religious books of todays civilizations in relation to Noah and the ARK he built.. Now common sense says yes there have been many floods on -EA- but We ALL know there WAS a mighty one that took place due to the various data made of it from different religious authors. So I reshare the Deluge and some data to consider. Again this has been recorded in various religions.

My questions to the ATS community is:
1.Can these 2 stories be of the same origin or were there 2 or more great floods?
2.And if these are part of same story what's going on with the separation here?

The deluge or great flood?
ENKI/EA and Utnapishtim encounter/ The deluge

Lines 1-203, Tablet XI
The god Ea leaks the secret plan
Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh a secret story that begins in the old city of Shuruppak on the banks of the Euphrates River.
The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood.
[color=gold]But the god Ea (= Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house.
Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive.
The boat must have equal dimensions with corresponding width and length and be covered over like Apsu boats.
Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded.
He asked Ea what he should say to the city elders and the population.
Ea tells him to say that Enlil has rejected him and he can no longer reside in the city or set foot in Enlil's territory.
He should also say that he will go down to the Apsu "to live with my lord Ea".
Note: The Apsu was a fresh water marsh near the temple of Ea/Enki at the city of Eridu.[9]
Ea will provide abundant rain, a profusion of fowl and fish, and a wealthy harvest of wheat and bread.
link
en.wikipedia.org...

Noah's Ark

Noah's Ark (Hebrew: תֵּבַת נֹחַ‎, Tebhath Noaḥ in Classical Hebrew; Tevat Noakh in Modern Hebrew) is the vessel which, according to the Book of Genesis (chapters 6-9) and the Quran (surah Hud), was built by Noah at God's command to save himself, his family, and the world's animals from a worldwide deluge.

Genesis 6-9 (New International Version, ©2011)

Genesis 6
Wickedness in the World
1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Noah and the Flood
9 This is the account of Noah and his family.
Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high.[d] 16 Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit[e] high all around.[f] Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

link

www.biblegateway.com...

Quran Great Flood Sura 11
The Believers

[11:23] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, and devote themselves to their Lord, they are the dwellers of Paradise; they abide therein forever.
[11:24] The example of these two groups is like the blind and deaf, compared to the seer and hearer. Are they equal? Would you not take heed?

Noah

[11:25] We sent Noah to his people, saying, "I come to you as a clear warner.
[11:26] "You shall not worship except GOD. I fear for you the retribution of a painful day."
[11:27] The leaders who disbelieved among his people said, "We see that you are no more than a human being like us, and we see that the first people to follow you are the worst among us. We see that you do not possess any advantage over us. Indeed, we think you are liars."
[11:28] He said, "O my people, what if I have a solid proof from my Lord? What if He has blessed me out of His mercy, though you cannot see it? Are we going to force you to believe therein?
[11:29] "O my people, I do not ask you for any money; my wage comes only from GOD. I am not dismissing those who believed; they will meet their Lord (and He alone will judge them). I see that you are ignorant people.
[11:30] "O my people, who can support me against GOD, if I dismiss them? Would you not take heed?

All Power Belongs to God

[11:31] "I do not claim that I possess the treasures of GOD, nor do I know the future, nor do I claim to be an angel. Nor do I say to those despised by your eyes that GOD will not bestow any blessings upon them. GOD knows best what is in their innermost thoughts. (If I did this,) I would be a transgressor."
[11:32] They said, "O Noah, you have argued with us, and kept on arguing. We challenge you to bring the doom you threaten us with, if you are truthful."
[11:33] He said, "GOD is the One who brings it to you, if He so wills, then you cannot escape.
[11:34] "Even if I advised you, my advice cannot benefit you if it is GOD's will to send you astray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will be returned."
[11:35] If they say, "He made up this story," then say, "If I made it up, then I am responsible for my crime, and I am innocent of any crime you commit."
[11:36] Noah was inspired: "No more of your people are going to believe, beyond those who already believe. Do not be saddened by their actions.
[11:37] "Build the ark under our watchful eyes, and with our inspiration, and do not implore Me on behalf of those who have transgressed; they are destined to drown."

He Who Laughs Last Laughs Best

[11:38] While he was building the ark, whenever some of his people passed by him they laughed at him. He said, "You may be laughing at us, but we are laughing at you, just as you are laughing.
[11:39] "You will surely find out who will suffer a shameful retribution, and incur an everlasting punishment."
[11:40] When our judgment came, and the atmosphere boiled over, we said, "Carry on it a pair of each kind,* together with your family, except those who are condemned. Carry with you those who have believed," and only a few have believed with him.
[11:41] He said, "Come on board. In the name of GOD shall be its sailing, and its mooring. My Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
[11:42] As it sailed with them in waves like hills, Noah called his son, who was isolated: "O my son, come ride with us; do not be with the disbelievers."
[11:43] He said, "I will take refuge on top of a hill, to protect me from the water." He said, "Nothing can protect anyone today from GOD's judgment; only those worthy of His mercy (will be saved)." The waves separated them, and he was among those who drowned.

link
www.masjidtucson.org...

Quran Great Flood Sura 71

71:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[71:1] We sent Noah to his people: "You shall warn your people before a painful retribution afflicts them."
[71:2] He said, "O my people, I am a manifest warner to you.
[71:3] "To alert you that you shall worship GOD, reverence Him, and obey me.
[71:4] "He will then forgive you your sins and respite you for a predetermined period. Most assuredly, GOD's appointment can never be delayed, once it is due, if you only knew."
[71:5] He said, "My Lord, I have invited my people night and day.
[71:6] "But my invitation only increased their aversion.
[71:7] "Whenever I invited them to be forgiven by You, they placed their fingers in their ears, covered themselves with their clothes, insisted, and turned arrogant.
[71:8] "Then I invited them publicly.
[71:9] "Then I proclaimed to them loudly, and I spoke to them privately.
[71:10] "I said, `Implore your Lord for forgiveness; He is Forgiving.
[71:11] " `He will then shower you generously with rain.
[71:12] " `And provide you with money and children, and orchards, and streams.' "
[71:13] Why should you not strive to reverence GOD?
[71:14] He is the One who created you in stages.
[71:15] Do you not realize that GOD created seven universes in layers?
[71:16] He designed the moon therein to be a light, and placed the sun to be a lamp.
[71:17] And GOD germinated you from the earth like plants.
[71:18] Then He returns you into it, and He will surely bring you out.
[71:19] GOD made the earth habitable for you.
[71:20] That you may build roads therein.
[71:21] Noah said, "My Lord, they disobeyed me, and followed those who were even more corrupted when blessed with money and children.
[71:22] "They schemed terrible schemes.
[71:23] "They said, `Do not abandon your gods. Do not abandon Wadd, Suwaa`, Yaghouth, Ya`ooq, and Nasr.'
[71:24] "They misled many. Therefore, let the wicked plunge deeper into loss."
[71:25] Because of their sins they were drowned and assigned to the hellfire. They found no helpers to protect them from GOD.
[71:26] Noah also said, "My Lord, do not leave a single disbeliever on earth.
[71:27] "For if you let them, they will only mislead your servants and give birth to nothing but wicked disbelievers.
[71:28] "My Lord, forgive me and my parents, and anyone who enters my home as a believer, and all the believing men and women. But do not give the disbelievers anything but annihilation."

link
www.masjidtucson.org...

Basically I have put a little together from ancient Sumerian flood data-Christian flood data-Islamic flood data. So again why ALL the Fighting? Its clear certain data is shared.

Bonus question

So if blue in the past turned red then yellow isnt red and yellow still blue????

Mods not sure where it goes as it deals with humanity and others. Feel free to move.

Why all the fighting? Because there is absolutely no physical evidence of a global flood, nor is there a physical possibility that such an event could happen. ....and it gets a hell of a lot worse off as being entirely impossible when you get into the specifics of the stories.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


So you feel these are just some fairy tales? Then how could they have spread so well if not any truth to them?
thanks

If one lives and breathes the modern scientific paradigm, with its so-called facts. Then yes, these are fairy tales.
However, I prefer not to prostrate myself at the altar of science. I think what we have in these accounts is some myth, and some real history. And I think you have to extrapolate the commonalities from the stories, and leave the religious fervor where it belongs.

This is a common tale that seems to persist not only in ancient writings, but in mans collective consciousness. I'm not trying to get all metaphysical. But I do tend to believe that somehow we retain collective memories from our distant past no matter what science may preach. How those memories are interpreted is another matter. And some seem to recall more than others.

I don't know what to make of the flood stories yet. I do take what science has to say into consideration. But I also look at all ancient accounts as possibilities too.

Not all history is myth. And not all myth is history.

reply to post by Klassified

I do my best to show these commonalities in order to show that somwhere or somehow there seems to be a consensus about this flood happining. It is deeplyembedded in the collective indeed, dont mind the metaphysical at all. I just wish that this area had more scientific data to supprot it occured, which if properly gathered I think scientific data can prove. Which can only strenghthen the belief.
It seems 1 must also keep an open mind with this data as well. It just amazez me its mentioned in many different religious backgrounds. And I totally agree with you that not all history is myth. And not all myth is history. Point taken

Thanks

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


...because stories spread. And they didn't spread all that far. They stayed within a regional cultural context between the Utnapishtim tale and the Genesis account and the Islamic version is merely a retake on the same tale due to exposure to Christianity.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I think you will find quite a lot of evidence for flooding over the years, large floods, from ice age melt water floods, to the explosion of Santorini causing tsunami across the entire Mediterranean area.

A lot of what forms the Bible, and other religious tracts, comes from a number of different sources, there are strong Egyptian links to some of the Bible stories and methods of worship. Babylonian influences, and other cultures.

Whether you believe the hand of God inspired the writing of the Bible, or you believe it's a conglomeration of different texts, beliefs, and practices drawn together from across the middle east is irrelevant, what matters is that many of the events related do have historical background, or are founded in common shared myth.

Be a little more understanding and tolerant, and do a little reading before writing off the entire episode.

reply to post by Klassified

Originally posted by Klassified
If one lives and breathes the modern scientific paradigm, with its so-called facts.

Oh, not this sewage again....the modern scientific paradigm is the best answer we have based on testable and repeated evidence.

And facts are observations. The sky is blue, that's a fact. This bicycle weighs 25 lbs, that's a fact as well. The paradigm is a synthesis based around those facts.

Then yes, these are fairy tales.

Because tehy are.

However, I prefer not to prostrate myself at the altar of science. I think what we have in these accounts is some myth, and some real history. And I think you have to extrapolate the commonalities from the stories, and leave the religious fervor where it belongs.

...so just because some primitive peoples had the same ideas those ideas are necessarily history...even though there's absolutely no physical evidence of any such events happening. You do realize that such an event would leave behind a lot of evidence, right?

The only commonality that can be found is "some sort of flood might have happened at some point"...wow, flood happen.

This is a common tale that seems to persist not only in ancient writings, but in mans collective consciousness.

...it might just have to do with people tending to live near bodies of water (for obvious reasons) and that bodies of water...*gasp* tend to flood.

I'm not trying to get all metaphysical. But I do tend to believe that somehow we retain collective memories from our distant past no matter what science may preach.

Science doesn't preach. Science doesn't have any evidence for such an extraordinary claim so it doesn't even bother to consider it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so your idle speculation while dismissing the very work that has allowed people to communicate electronically over massive distances via the internet is sort of useless.

How those memories are interpreted is another matter. And some seem to recall more than others.

Those memories...which have no concrete basis in fact, no mechanism for transfer, nothing...you're just assuming that this phenomenon exists.

I don't know what to make of the flood stories yet. I do take what science has to say into consideration. But I also look at all ancient accounts as possibilities too.

You don't treat science like an adviser, it's a dictator. You're not going to be able to fly a plane made of balsa wood at high speeds, science is unequivocal on pretty much everything unless new evidence comes up to show that its wrong.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Madness. You have no idea how much I appreciate your presence here at ATS. You, and a handful of others. And I mean that sincerely. No hidden dig. I can always count on you guys to quote verbatim the mainstream of science. And I find that valuable. And many times, I even agree.

Where we disagree, is with the integrity and faith you and others so freely place in those who have come to represent science to us. My problem isn't with science itself. My problem is with modern scientific consensus.

We aren't hashing out whether the science behind the combustion engine works or not. We aren't talking about modern electronics and medical advancements. We're talking about theories. We're talking about decades of building a paradigm for generations of people to believe without question. If you think they aren't going to protect that paradigm, then you are naive.

The only revelations that will come from the scientific community anytime soon, are those that won't bring the whole house of cards down around them. As much as I truly appreciate your steadfastness, I can't go along with it. I used to have a god, and a staunch religious belief. I won't have another one. Be it science, or christ, or buddha.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I can understand how the spreading occured what i mean is if there was no truth then how can the Great flood be so deeply embedded in the human mondstate if it didnt happen? Not to mention the thought that it was also to destroy the Nephilims. To me I think its a true story passed down from generation to generation.
Thanks for your input..

reply to post by Rob37n


Thanks for your understanding and clarifying of the data for others..

Utnapishtim & Noah

If there is any TRUTH associated with the deluge or great flood described experienced by Utnapishtim who was said to be in contact with LORD ENKI/EA* & Noah who was described to be in contact with GOD.

Then did the labeled serpent LORD ENKI labeled serpent by his elder brother LORD ENLIL (not labeled by man originally?) try to assist humanity during the deluge? Also the tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVOL why would 1 teach some of evol if the taught are only going to label the teacher evol and avoid the teacher? Alas first thought programmed into human conscious is avoid the serpentaz 1

1 wonders EA*RTH

NAMASTE*******