Government Shutdown: Mistake or Deliberate?

As we all know by now we have less than 24 hours to come to a budget agreement.
Why is this being done in march, when the democrats controlled all three branches
of government in 2010, when this thing was supposed to be done.

Was it:
1. Laziness
2. Completely forgotten
3. A deliberate action



Very true.

Now what would be the gain if this was deliberate? I would guess the obvious being political ammunition in the coming months for 2012. But what if there was more to it? Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for Obama to write up another executive order, he already has some interesting ones out there. Obama's Orders

And lets not Forget what Rham said early on:

Well put sir.

So with Dems turning the drama up:

NANCY PELOSI: "In one of the bills before us, six million seniors are deprived of meals -- homebound seniors are deprived of meals. People ask us to find our common ground, the middle ground. Is middle ground three million seniors not receiving meals? I don't think so. We've got to take this conversation from a debate about numbers and dollar figures and finding middle ground there to the higher ground of national values. I don't think the American people want any one of those six million people to lose their meals or the children who are being thrown off of Head Start and the rest of it."

And that's just one example. Here's more:

"shut down is like bombing..."
WH Shutdown Plans
Gates: Shutdown could hurt military

Seems like they're trying to make this a crisis now doesn't it.

I'm not worried about the shutdown because you know what it effects? NOT US. Active service men and women will get paid, law enforcement and congress will still run, basically all the Core functions of government will exist. The only thing it effects is state parks, passports, etc etc.

This thread is not trying to prove one or the other, I merely want to discuss the possibility that there is more going on here than we know.

Thank You.

deiberate. period. They want to push us into code red so that they can implement their "emergency response plan"

naa, gonna have to spin the facts alot more to turn this around on the dems.

The government is about to shut down because the one big obsticle is that the repubs want to defund planned parenthood (300m). Its a "lets also remove abortion while we are at it" move that has no valid fiscal argument...its culture wars.

now, in 95, people knew who the speaker of the house was...the Newt...so when gov shut down, the right got hammered. Todays dim witted population has no clue who the speaker is...they know, with their dulled chimp brains, a single name that does all politics..Obama. a government shutdown will help the republicans

The Dems want both sides to compromise to stop a shutdown
the Inds want both sides to compromise to stop a shutdown
the Reps want no compromise, they want a shutdown for the lulz and because its a calculated move to blame obama...I see the spin machine is already starting up.

Ring wing crap trap going on here...but now its up to the left to get the facts out.

I think the problems are Ideology. I don't think the government is evil like alot of people think. I know power is abused and I have no doubt some shady stuff happens but I can't see them wanting a shut down I think the funding or defunding of programs is major hold up. The Ideology that seperates the two parties is why there can't seem to get a budget past. If there is a shutdown they are trying to pick and chose who stays funded and who doesn't. Two of the ones that a floating around that may not get funded from what I heard was the military and our seniors. How can either be an option. This is just my opinion is we alll have to take care of the retired people and insure our soldiers get their paychecks. We may not all agree with the governments policies as far as having our troops deployed but how can we as American's not support the men and women that put their lives on the line and leave their families for months at a time so we can stay at home and know we are as safe and well protected as humanly possible? And then decide paying those soldiers can wait. What other programs should be paid before our military gets paid.? Just my opinion.

how about distraction???

it's being played up too much by the media, ya know, fox has "Breaking News" on this for the past few days, on and on about it, and well, the story still hasn't broke!!
it's a distraction, or here is another possibility

scare the heck out of all these people with their no, the military isn't gonna be paid, no, this won't be done....and well, when they finally do prevent it, everyone will be so relieved, that they won't look too closely at the fine print... and low and behold, within the fine print will be something stupid like retroactively making all the illegal activities of the banks for the last decade or so suddenly legal or something.....

as far as why a budget hasn't been passed as of yet, well....
that's probably because well, that budget would either be so huge that it would set off alarms around the world and infuriate the american people, or would contain so many cuts in so many areas, that it would be unworkable for everyone.
if I am remembering right, the reason we were limping along like this was that the economy was in such a mess, and massive amounts were being sent out just to try to stabalize it, that they want the flexibility to act on short notice.....but well, I'd do my own research into that one, because it's is very possible that my memory is wrong???

by the way, the gov't LOSES over 30 million dollars every day the state parks are shut down!! so well, if they were actually looking at the financial balance sheets, with the intention of trying to bring balance or a profit, well, the national parks would be one thing that they would want to keep running!!
but, na, this is all about politics, and that trumps common sense.....

Originally posted by Kingbreaker
I'm not worried about the shutdown because you know what it effects? NOT US. Active service men and women will get paid, law enforcement and congress will still run, basically all the Core functions of government will exist. The only thing it effects is state parks, passports, etc etc.

etc etc...
aka, social security claims, medicare, tax refund processing,
tourism boards (happy spring break), passport processing, national health center admitting new patience, and (except for one thing they did agree about) soldiers will now be getting paid still, but that came as a seperate agreement.

in total, initially, about 1m people will not be going to work come monday...if it continues longer, it will effect more and more. once the SS office stops sending checks to seniors, then you are going to see some anger...take grandma's dinner and you have awoken a tiger.

It sure seems odd when one considers the timeing of the thing.

They know exactly what they're doing at every point.

Originally posted by JerryB08
I don't think the government is evil like alot of people think.

The government is just a representation of the people..thats it.
the people are dimwitted and dulled due to partisan news networks twisting their mind into only understanding one half of any issue. the government is just plodding along and doing what their base wants.

I will never purposefully slam a politician whom is simply doing their constituants bidding again...they are just the representation of todays retardation in the nation...

I hold contempt for the average american citizen now...not because they know whats going on, but because they typically don't care to know and just let the fringe run the politicians.

Time to implement some mandatory politicial education for the mass, or have their citizenship removed...be involved, or get out of the election process.

Either way Im having a shutdown party tonight and hoping it never starts back up.

The fact that there are "non-essential services" that can be turned off without the earth exploding says enough.

Hell, I'd bet 80% of the "essential" services left over could be switched off and hardly anyone would notice.

reply to post by SaturnFX


obviously abortion is major debate between the two. How though can It be justified to spend or fund American tax dollars to pay for something that half of the American people think is Immoral. Me personally I see both sides story and it's a difficult side to take either way. But should we have to pay for other peoples mistakes? Especially considering all the extremely religious people in this country. How can we ask someone to pay for a procedure when it's against their religious belief's? That's unconstitutional. I'd also like to add basic economics into the discussion You can't spend more than you make and expect to be around and in business very long. It's not like well all don't pay enough taxes for the government to generate enough money. These large companies need to start paying THEIR share of the taxes. Also I have personally seen households where the entire family is on disability for depression. Life is tough for everybody. suck it up and get a job. I think politically I have views as a center independent. Both sides have to compromise but we need to make sure our tax dollars are spent responsibly.

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

How though can It be justified to spend or fund American tax dollars to pay for something that half of the American people think is Immoral.

The gov does it all the time. They steal from us to fund wars, storm troopers to assault old ladies and hippies, drug and gun smuggling, assassinations, all sorts of messed up things most of us wouldnt want our hands on.

But if it gives just an inch and we all see that life goes on we might revolt entirely.

It needs to keep up the myth that we need it. It needs to swoop in and assault every tax evader even for pennies at the cost of thousands because it thrives on fear and force.

And for those religious types out there every time it kills somebody you paid for it. Every one of us is a murderer by proxy and will be dragged to hell for its sins.

All hail government in it's mighty glory.

According to FDR, "there are no coincidences in politics"....everything is planned and happens for a reason. The president seems well meaning in his call for a resolution but his actions (as illustrated in the short video) speak otherwise. The key will be how long this lasts....if it goes longer than a few weeks I would be concerned about a government takeover instead of a shutdown.....a takeover by the executive branch of government.

I am watching the news rigth now and it looks like a deal is going to be made. But this is kind of conspiratorial whenit is truly at the last minute.

reply to post by JerryB08


abortion has been an unresolved issue for decades.....should we really be gambling with our troops wellfare (or even considering holding their pay) if we don't have our point of view acknowledge as supreme.
to me, withholding the pay of those who we have sent halfway across the world to be shot at is a far greater moral transgression!!

and it speaks tons about the moral integrity of ALL OF OUR REPRESENTIVES!!! the payment of payroll shouldn't even be on the bargaining table!!

Here's a quote from an old British sitcom called Yes, Minister. Just replace the bit about House and commons with any other governmental house you wish.

"There was not a single scene set in the House of Commons because government does not take place in the House of Commons. Some politics and much theatre takes place there. Government happens in private. As in all public performances, the real work is done in rehearsal, behind closed doors. Then the public and the House are shown what the government wishes them to see."

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Either way Im having a shutdown party tonight and hoping it never starts back up.

The fact that there are "non-essential services" that can be turned off without the earth exploding says enough.

Hell, I'd bet 80% of the "essential" services left over could be switched off and hardly anyone would notice.

I am of the opinion that any service I personally don't use is non-essential

as far as earth exploding..well, we can have a depression without the earth exploding...if you have a job, then there is no problem.
nothing is ever a problem so long as you don't look beyond yourself.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Is your next post going to suggest the shutdown is Bush's fault? I have seen the far left still clinging to that delusional claim. To be clear the Dems had the house And the senate for 2 full years. Obama could have got ANYTHING to pass. Including all the things he promised. He could have completely undone everything Bush did. He made A LOT of promises. And did nothing but print more paper. 2 Trillion dollars in two years. All that does is weaken all of our life savings by devaluing the dollars. If drastic cuts are not made this country will be in for some much harder times than they are now. Inflation could go through roof. Can you afford to pay 12 dollars a gallon for gas? I sure can't. I want a better future for my son. Our children shouldn't have to pay for our costly mistakes.

Just my opinion

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

obviously abortion is major debate between the two. How though can It be justified to spend or fund American tax dollars to pay for something that half of the American people think is Immoral.

the gov spends no money on abortions, they do however spend money on health and welfare of the unborn...PP does more than just abortions...they do a whole ton of stuff..its like stopping a hospital because they don't like one service in the many services they offer.
this is about budget..just budget..the money spent, if totally eliminated, would save nothing as its already allocated and works on a non-profit pay for itself service. its just a cultural war over a ideal..not budget

Ask the people what they think about war...if we got to go with majority, we might as well disban the military. your logic is not sound and thats just giving an excuse to this. Don't be a stooge..can we talk about defunding anything that may have something to do with abortions? sure...but not on a budget debate.

Abortion, incidently, is fully legal. there is no gray area...its legal, it will always be legal, its written in stone.

Me personally I see both sides story and it's a difficult side to take either way. But should we have to pay for other peoples mistakes? Especially considering all the extremely religious people in this country. How can we ask someone to pay for a procedure when it's against their religious belief's?

Again, this is not the debate, but what the hell
Many people believe in religion and creationism verses scienctific understanding.
Does that mean we should eliminate schools all together because there is a moral dilemma about one of the courses?
Thats the argument your making...it makes no sense and is not relevant.

Snipped the rest
both sides compromising does not mean one side going fully to the other side...flip on the damn news for a moment and see the issues.

reply to post by SaturnFX


People can get by just fine without jobs or in a depression.

The only reason anyone needs an income at all is because we have to pay taxes and fees just to exist. If it werent for taxes we could all get by quite fine with just a 10th of an acre of soil.

We're not supposed to be living this way. All of the artificial frames propping it up and government interferences mandating participation is testament to how wrong and unnatural it is. It cant be sustained forever no matter how hard they try.

But we're all too set in this lazy life. Too used to the splendor and decadence. I didnt have electricity or running water until the government knocked and told me I must have it or lose my home.

None of us need any of this. A lot of us want all of this. Those who do not want any of it? They get a visit from the cops telling to buy in or get out.

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Is your next post going to suggest the shutdown is Bush's fault?

erm...no...btw, google "strawman". you build up a fiction argument then tear it down as if that was somehow the issue.
Bush? what are you on about?

I have seen the far left still clinging to that delusional claim.

I am pretty far left...I never heard that...the people that are saying that that you "seen"...is there straight jackets on them?

To be clear the Dems had the house And the senate for 2 full years. Obama could have got ANYTHING to pass. Including all the things he promised. He could have completely undone everything Bush did.

research: Filibuster

He made A LOT of promises. And did nothing but print more paper.

I could, of course, cut and paste a rather large list of accomplishments in the first 24 months, but why bother...you think nothing happened...nothing about financial regulations, dadt, gitmo (attempts), etc. more needs to be done, I agree with you there, however, keep in mind, unless you have a united supermajority, nothing gets passed (unless you threaten x-mas break time...then suddenly people see reason)

2 Trillion dollars in two years. All that does is weaken all of our life savings by devaluing the dollars. If drastic cuts are not made this country will be in for some much harder times than they are now. Inflation could go through roof.

Stitches initially cost more than a band aid, but stitches fixes the wound where a band aid masks the issue but keeps it going.

Can you afford to pay 12 dollars a gallon for gas? I sure can't. I want a better future for my son. Our children shouldn't have to pay for our costly mistakes.

Just my opinion

and another strawman argument.
Government has little to do with gas prices actually (currently). Oil is a corporate product, not a government product. the right talks about gas prices, but should the government suggest its time to regulate a bit, the right explodes on how the government has no place regulating anything...

whatever.