Teens More Into Music Than Reading More Likely To Be Depressed

reply to post by Quickfix


Ive never seen anyone refer to wisdom as applied knowledge.

Knowledge leads to action. If one knows something, and doesnt act, then that would make him highly unwise..........hmm...so, i see what you mean by wisdom leading to action. Very perceptive of you.

Personally, I feel the idea of music leading to depression to be ludicrous, except in those cases where one goes around with their headphones constantly feeding them horribly depressing songs as they feel the downing tones and wallow in the teared up lyrics. But then, those people are idiots and they can go off and be depressed if they want for all I care.

I prefer to listen to emotionally uplifting music, and really high energy stuff that burns away depression like light burns away darkness. Every once in a while I do listen to something with a more depressed sound, but that's because I recognize that a point of comparison is necessary to see just how beautiful beauty is.

I bet if someone read books that were as completely and thoroughly depressing as some music then they'd get depressed too. As far as the other direction goes, someone who's depressed is more likely to listen to music than read because reading suddenly seems to require massive effort whereas music does not.

I think this is a brilliant study you should all be looking deeper into this.

Classical music enhances your brain and uplifts you. Albert Einstein said improvising on the violin makes him think better. I would agree with both; there are few better feelings than improvising a nice tune. So it is not classical music or playing music that this study is referring to, this study is referring to music that teens are actually in to these days... say... popular music? Lil Wayne, Kid Kudi, Kanye West, Usher, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Eminem, etc... It's called pop music for a reason, because it's the most popular.

Now think about what pop songs are usually about. Sex, violence, drugs, and sex. So people listening to pop think sex, violence, and drugs are cool. This is a destructive attitude in 2 ways. The first is if the listener thinks these things are cool but "isn't man enough" or "isn't woman enough" to get lots of sex, or be violent and aggressive, or do drugs. This is probably why you see suburban white kids these days trying to act "ghetto" so they can be cool like the pop music icons they listen to; but all they are really doing is trying to be what they're not and never will be, and this can lead to depression. The second way is if the listener does get lots of sex, violence, and drugs; with the combination of these things you're more likely to get in trouble than be happy. And when you drop out of high school because of drugs or because you join a gang, you think you are going to live happily ever after?

Now think of teens who like to read. Are they going to be high school dropouts? Are they going to try to be someone they are not because a book tells them to? Maybe. But apparently not as much as teens who are more into listening to music.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Playing the violin, or any instrument for that matter, should not be compared to listening to music with acknowledging that playing music is mentally active; it lights up parts of your brain that listening doesn't touch.

To be honest, I can't imagine a white boy trying to act ghetto being secretly depressed when he goes home after school. For that matter, most of the "ghetto white boys" I've known aren't trying to be the mainstream rappers and what-not, rather just trying to be ghetto, which can be funny if it's a particular kid that just shouldn't, but it's generally not out of reach.

As far as drug and gang related drop outs go, I'd expect gang members to be more angry than depressed and if someone gets down about their drug use screwing up their education it's going to be attributed to drugs not excessive music listening.

I'm reasonably sure the study was talking about a direct correlation, not an indirect causation.

Originally posted by SirRebrl
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

To be honest, I can't imagine a white boy trying to act ghetto being secretly depressed when he goes home after school. For that matter, most of the "ghetto white boys" I've known aren't trying to be the mainstream rappers and what-not, rather just trying to be ghetto, which can be funny if it's a particular kid that just shouldn't, but it's generally not out of reach.

As far as drug and gang related drop outs go, I'd expect gang members to be more angry than depressed and if someone gets down about their drug use screwing up their education it's going to be attributed to drugs not excessive music listening.

I'm reasonably sure the study was talking about a direct correlation, not an indirect causation.

The study doesn't specify whether it's a direct correlation or indirect causation, it just says "more likely."

researchers found that teens who spend more time listening to music, rather than reading books, are more likely to be depressed

It is interesting that you would think there's a direct correlation between listening to music and depression, especially when it is proven that classical music can enhance your brain functions.

I think it's an indirect causation just because all of the different possible indirect causes there are based on who is listening and what type of music is being listened to. My white kid trying to be ghetto and high school dropouts were just two possible examples, they may or may not be true. But just becuase you "can't imagine" a white boy secretly being depressed or you "wouldn't expect" a high school dropout to be depressed, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. After all, when do you EVER expect anyone to be depressed? Depression is looked down on, so of course people who are depressed are going to try not to show it, so it is natural that you wouldn't expect it to happen.

I'm not saying depression happens to every white boy trying to act ghetto, I'm just saying it's more likely. I may be wrongly assuming this indirect causation, but there are many other possible indirect causations with music listening that could potentially lead to depression.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
The study doesn't specify whether it's a direct correlation or indirect causation, it just says "more likely."

Finding a correlation comes before determining any causation, as correlation itself does not prove causation.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
It is interesting that you would think there's a direct correlation between listening to music and depression, especially when it is proven that classical music can enhance your brain functions.

I think it's an indirect causation just because all of the different possible indirect causes there are based on who is listening and what type of music is being listened to. My white kid trying to be ghetto and high school dropouts were just two possible examples, they may or may not be true. But just becuase you "can't imagine" a white boy secretly being depressed or you "wouldn't expect" a high school dropout to be depressed, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. After all, when do you EVER expect anyone to be depressed? Depression is looked down on, so of course people who are depressed are going to try not to show it, so it is natural that you wouldn't expect it to happen.

I'm not saying depression happens to every white boy trying to act ghetto, I'm just saying it's more likely. I may be wrongly assuming this indirect causation, but there are many other possible indirect causations with music listening that could potentially lead to depression.

I didn't say I think there's a direct correlation between music and depression. I said I think that's what the study is talking about. I did more specifically state that I believe there to be a correlation between listening to horribly depressing music and depression, but that's a totally different thing than music in general.

I believe there may be a correlation but that there is no causation because there's simply too many factors to go and say "music caused this." I said I can't imagine a white kid who acts ghetto (I should have specified convincingly ghetto) being secretly depressed. White boys in general can totally be secretly depressed. I've suffered from bouts of clinical depression since middle school and even my parents had trouble catching on.

In any cause, there are far too many factors involved to claim music as even an indirect cause of depression, unless it's horribly depressing music listened to 24/7, but even then there are probably other factors instigating that behavior in the first place. The kids who listen to mainstream rap and idolize the rappers and try to be like them and get depressed cause they're not aren't depressed because of the music; they're depressed because they aren't famous or what-not. If they didn't listen to a ton of rap and idolize rappers, they'd probably have somebody else they felt they were failing to be like.

I'd wager that in just about every case, the music is a factor that can be analyzed and broken down to find the real cause of the depression.

Originally posted by SirRebrl
I said I can't imagine a white kid who acts ghetto (I should have specified convincingly ghetto) being secretly depressed. White boys in general can totally be secretly depressed. I've suffered from bouts of clinical depression since middle school and even my parents had trouble catching on.

We probably have different experiences with white kids acting ghetto so I'm just going to leave this one as it is.

Originally posted by SirRebrl In any cause, there are far too many factors involved to claim music as even an indirect cause of depression, unless it's horribly depressing music listened to 24/7, but even then there are probably other factors instigating that behavior in the first place. The kids who listen to mainstream rap and idolize the rappers and try to be like them and get depressed cause they're not aren't depressed because of the music; they're depressed because they aren't famous or what-not. If they didn't listen to a ton of rap and idolize rappers, they'd probably have somebody else they felt they were failing to be like.

I'd wager that in just about every case, the music is a factor that can be analyzed and broken down to find the real cause of the depression.

You've got a good argument, I can tell you've got some experience in Psychology. You say kids who listen to mainstream rap idolize rappers because they have an inherent desire to idolize people that are popular, so if not the rapper, it would be the athlete, or actor that they idolize.

I think all people have an inherent desire to be popular and to idolize people that are popular. But I think idolizing music has a different effect on people than idolizing an athlete or movie star, because we are exposed to music so much more and on a deeper level. And music has a common appeal that is unrivalled by any movie star or sport. So I think it's the meaning and implications of the music that is directly or indirectly causing depression; it is the root of the depression.

You say music is a factor that can be analyzed and broken down to find the real cause of depression, well I want to know what could possibly be a real cause of depression that could lead to a correlation between listening to music and depression.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
You've got a good argument, I can tell you've got some experience in Psychology. You say kids who listen to mainstream rap idolize rappers because they have an inherent desire to idolize people that are popular, so if not the rapper, it would be the athlete, or actor that they idolize.

I think all people have an inherent desire to be popular and to idolize people that are popular. But I think idolizing music has a different effect on people than idolizing an athlete or movie star, because we are exposed to music so much more and on a deeper level. And music has a common appeal that is unrivalled by any movie star or sport. So I think it's the meaning and implications of the music that is directly or indirectly causing depression; it is the root of the depression.

You say music is a factor that can be analyzed and broken down to find the real cause of depression, well I want to know what could possibly be a real cause of depression that could lead to a correlation between listening to music and depression.

I believe the first and foremost cause of the correlation itself is depressed teens using music over reading as an escape tool, or even a tool to wallow in the cause of the depression. It requires little effort and it can be rather effective. In these cases the cause of the depression can be anything; basic hormonal imbalance, trouble at home or school, etc., the list being especially long in those who are predisposed to depression. If the music is being used as an escape it can't really be used to find the root cause of the depression, but if a teen suffering from depression is listening to a lot of depressing music in a particular vein that corresponds with their life then, also considering other factors, one might assume the main topic of the music to be the cause, or one of several causes, of the depression.

I believe that any desire to be well known or idolize those who are is not inherent, but is instilled in us by society from a very young age. We are conditioned to want the things that popularity brings by seeing, or experiencing, how pleasurable it can be from as early as preschool, sometimes younger. One might suggest, therefore, that society is the root cause and music artists are occasionally its tool of choice.

I agree that idolizing music artists is different than idolizing movie stars or athletes. Movie stars and athletes occasionally speak to the general public, but much of the time, including the core of their career, involves not giving us any attention. Music, on the other hand, is all about speaking straight to the heart of anyone who listens. This definitely grants it a special power. As I said, I do believe that listening to depressing music all the time can cause depression, but when it comes to other types of music being directly correlated to depression I think the real cause is a society which supports the glorification of celebrities, not just music artists, who make a life of sex and drugs, and then also the gangster lifestyle of even more meaningless sex, drugs, and violence.

When someone is shot and killed, you can think the bullet killed them. But it didn't. Neither did the gun it was fired from. The person holding that gun did. Or maybe it was society in that case, too. Our society is pretty messed up. Regardless, you get the point of the analogy.

Originally posted by SirRebrl
I believe the first and foremost cause of the correlation itself is depressed teens using music over reading as an escape tool, or even a tool to wallow in the cause of the depression. It requires little effort and it can be rather effective. In these cases the cause of the depression can be anything; basic hormonal imbalance, trouble at home or school, etc., the list being especially long in those who are predisposed to depression. If the music is being used as an escape it can't really be used to find the root cause of the depression, but if a teen suffering from depression is listening to a lot of depressing music in a particular vein that corresponds with their life then, also considering other factors, one might assume the main topic of the music to be the cause, or one of several causes, of the depression.

I believe that any desire to be well known or idolize those who are is not inherent, but is instilled in us by society from a very young age. We are conditioned to want the things that popularity brings by seeing, or experiencing, how pleasurable it can be from as early as preschool, sometimes younger. One might suggest, therefore, that society is the root cause and music artists are occasionally its tool of choice.

I agree that idolizing music artists is different than idolizing movie stars or athletes. Movie stars and athletes occasionally speak to the general public, but much of the time, including the core of their career, involves not giving us any attention. Music, on the other hand, is all about speaking straight to the heart of anyone who listens. This definitely grants it a special power. As I said, I do believe that listening to depressing music all the time can cause depression, but when it comes to other types of music being directly correlated to depression I think the real cause is a society which supports the glorification of celebrities, not just music artists, who make a life of sex and drugs, and then also the gangster lifestyle of even more meaningless sex, drugs, and violence.

That's a good point, it certainly is a lot easier to listen to music when you are depressed than to read a book. That society conditions us to idolize celebrities, that is another valid point, as our shallow materialism is one of the key factors that makes American capitalism work. That our society is the root cause of depression, I agree with you there too.

But now, what is society? What constitutes a tool of society, and what actually constitutes our society? I would argue that music is not just a tool of society. Music IS society. The people who sing it and play it constitute our society, and the music they make is part of society. Popular music is a representation of what our society is today.

Anyways, I wouldn't want this to turn into a philosophical debate about what society is because I think that's a matter of perspective. You made a lot of good points, I just think music has a more direct effect on depression levels than you do.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
That's a good point, it certainly is a lot easier to listen to music when you are depressed than to read a book. That society conditions us to idolize celebrities, that is another valid point, as our shallow materialism is one of the key factors that makes American capitalism work. That our society is the root cause of depression, I agree with you there too.
But now, what is society? What constitutes a tool of society, and what actually constitutes our society? I would argue that music is not just a tool of society. Music IS society. The people who sing it and play it constitute our society, and the music they make is part of society. Popular music is a representation of what our society is today.
Anyways, I wouldn't want this to turn into a philosophical debate about what society is because I think that's a matter of perspective. You made a lot of good points, I just think music has a more direct effect on depression levels than you do.

I'll end my side of the debate with just two things.

First, I do see how one can believe that music is a more direct cause of depression than I believe; I do understand where you're coming from and so can acknowledge that neither of us would probably ever concede.

The other is that I agree that music is society inasmuch as your arm is you, to throw another analogy out there.that allows both of our perspectives simultaneously. I also agree for the most part that pop music is a snapshot photograph of our society, except that I would say all music; our society is more complex and multi-faceted than pop music would indicate.

Anyway, that was enjoyable debate. I'm definitely liking it here.