Americans dont deserve freedom

Thats ok and thank you everybody for understanding. Im just not sure where to begin. just dont think we should be lumped into one lump you now.

reply to post by lastrebel


What exact freedoms do you feel robbed of? Is this one of those "I cannot drive drunk, or buy coc aine in Wal Mart - so therefore America is a fascist nation" things?

Society has always come with restrictions on personal behavior. This was true in 1776. It is true now.

reply to post by WrathShadow


Yes and No

What......if any...........limit should there be to government intrusion in our lives? Or are you one of those that think its not an issue till the Tank is in your yard?

I dont want to buy drugs or drive drunk wtf . I would like to vote and it count for something what are u talking abou.

Originally posted by karileigh77
I dont want to buy drugs or drive drunk wtf . I would like to vote and it count for something what are u talking abou.

Then dont buy drugs no one is forcing you too. Just like no one is forcing you to marry a gay, get high, drink, etc

Originally posted by WrathShadow

Oh, and just for squints and giggles, they would probably take issue with anyone proselytizing about who does and does not deserve freedom. Freedom is for all, even those who don't understand or appreciate it. They are free to do so.

Just for squints and giggles, times were a bit more simple back then and the mindset of the founding fathers were on the issues of the time when they wrote and did what they did. The word freedom meant something entirely different in 1775. It meant freedom from a "tyrannical king", taxes, and a government that wanted total control. That was about it.

We got what they were fighting for. Initially.

But then we started taking the word freedom out of context to the point where it meant that people can hold up signs at funerals stating "God hates fags" and "God hates dead soldiers" Do you think that out founding fathers would take issue at that interpretation of freedom, or would they just cop the "live and let live" attitude because that is the"true" definition of freedom?

The biggest problem I see is people like you and judges all across the country who have to make decisions based on what was written 235 years ago. We try to put ourselves in the shoes of the people who wrote the constitution and tell ourselves that we speak for them. As if we can translate their 1775 intentions into our 2011 needs.

They were as much time travelers as we are mind readers.

reply to post by karileigh77


Did I appear to be singling you out? These are common "freedom" based arguments on this forum. I stay away from them because I find them moronic.

reply to post by lastrebel


I'm one of those who thinks that society comes with rules and if I don't want to fit into a society I am free to find one that matches my morals. If I wanted anarchy, I'd take my ass into the woods, Grizzly Adams style and do it up right.

One of the great problems with America, if you want to get down to brass tacks, is the damnable sense of entitlement that we collectively seem to have. We are quite frankly the most self-absorbed culture that has ever existed. We WANT and we don't care about much else than getting what we want. We have lost the ability to compromise, discuss, adjust, or create. We have become a nation of whiny children, for the most part, And all we can do is DEMAND and throw tantrums until we get.

It's quite sad.

Yes u did seem to single me out. Im mot trying to start something and get intto it with people. Just want to know what we as americans can do to change the way people see us that live in the US.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by WrathShadow

Oh, and just for squints and giggles, they would probably take issue with anyone proselytizing about who does and does not deserve freedom. Freedom is for all, even those who don't understand or appreciate it. They are free to do so.

Just for squints and giggles, times were a bit more simple back then and the mindset of the founding fathers were on the issues of the time when they wrote and did what they did. The word freedom meant something entirely different in 1775. It meant freedom from a "tyrannical king", taxes, and a government that wanted total control. That was about it.

We got what they were fighting for. Initially.

But then we started taking the word freedom out of context to the point where it meant that people can hold up signs at funerals stating "God hates fags" and "God hates dead soldiers" Do you think that out founding fathers would take issue at that interpretation of freedom, or would they just cop the "live and let live" attitude because that is the"true" definition of freedom?

The biggest problem I see is people like you and judges all across the country who have to make decisions based on what was written 235 years ago. We try to put ourselves in the shoes of the people who wrote the constitution and tell ourselves that we speak for them. As if we can translate their 1775 intentions into our 2011 needs.

They were as much time travelers as we are mind readers.

True, heck, back then, you could duel a man who challenged you. Now, I cant even defend myself without the possibility of an attacker suing me.

reply to post by karileigh77


Entitlements crack me up. I remember back in high school that my dad used to get onto my brother and my brother would always respond with I have rights. My dad would then tell him,"yeah you got rights, the right to be wrong!" I don't think anybody is entitled to anything.
" Nothing is ever given to a man that is worth having, except as a result of hard work." --Booker T. Washington

reply to post by fatherj


“If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else.” --- Booker T Washington as well.

reply to post by lastrebel


I agree, somewhat, with the sentiment represented here, but not the scope in which it is phrased. We, as a people, do have this tendency to react rather than being proactive. When bad things happen somebody somewhere screams "There should have been a law!", and that usually leads to one being made.

But does this mean that all laws are born of hyperbole and nothing more than tools to rob people of freedom? Of course not. The vast majority serve a purpose and exist because they need to exist. The Framers were not anarchists and were seeking to create a nation of laws and prosperity.

But we do agree that the Framers would not like what we've done with the place. I just think they'd be disgusted for different reasons... such as rampant corruption, the hijacking of America by corporate interests, rampant poverty, crumbling infrastructure, and a class divide unequaled in the western world.

~Heff

For the OP and those who agree with that view what are you doing that sets you apart from those Americans that don't deserve freedom and liberty?

No matter how much I can Sympathize with the message the OP is trying to get across....

I am SICK AND TIRED of being Labeled this way because most of the people around me are lazy, stupid, and truthfully LIKE being told what to do!

Not ALL OF US are like that, and some of us do fight! It's very offensive being stereotypically called one of the LAZY STUPID people when I and many around me are NOT IN ANY WAY LAZY or STUPID!

Like all other generalizations it is a STUPID thing to say that ALL AMERICANS are the way you have described!

As a matter of fact as I look around myself these days I have begun to see that these lazy stupid people who like being told what to do are not in Fact the MAJORITY but instead are a SHRINKING minority!

I'd even go so far as to say that anyone that tries to tell you differently is probably trying to CONVINCE you that it's NOT WORTH it to go against the SUPPOSED OVERWHELMING MAJORITY!

Never forget that when the bailouts were being discussed the offices of our legislators were SWAMPED with calls 24 hours a day, and it was an overwhelming 100 to 1 AGAINST the ruinous bailouts!

These threads used to get me down, now they just MAKE ME ANGRY and SUSPICIOUS.... Why is it people go to SO MUCH EFFORT to try and convince us that WE CANNOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

Just something to think about.

reply to post by lastrebel


I can see where you are coming from in your op, but I dont agree. We have been slowly manipulated and twisted into this reality. We deserve freedom and we deserve nothing less, but we are not ready to take on the challenges that are necessary to gain it. The very first step is altering peoples perceptions of this, by saying that we dont deserve it your basically rolling over and peeing on yourself. Man up! Dont take the easy way out and condem your fellow man just because you dont have the cahonas to stand up and begin the change.... not that I even know where to start.

You are so right
Nothing was truely forced on us or hidden from us as a nation.. people through the years have swapped comfort and entitlements for safety and freedom. Of course there were times when people like lincoln and others have blatenly abused their powers but for the most part we as a country have allowed it.
Personally I think we are way past the tipping point of return and there is no going back now. There will either be slavery or revolt and unfortunately I dont see as many people standing up to revolt as they say they will.
All in the name of progress

LOL whats this "we" sh**? Must suck doing all that but have at it.

Speak for yourself and leave the "founding fathers" out of it btw. They're dead, long gone and the stupidest thing people say here is how they'd be "rolling in their graves." Those people lived hundreds of years ago and couldnt figure out how to ride a damn subway if they were alive today, so let them be. Live in the damn now instead of invoking Thomas friggin Jefferson every time you don't like something the gub does.

Our future is ours to make, get out there and make it. The present and future are yours, not theirs, YOURS. Life belongs to the living. Freedom belongs to those who OWN it, LIVE it and PRACTICE it, not those who cry about not having it.

For the OP and those who agree with that view what are you doing that sets you apart from those Americans that don't deserve freedom and liberty?

In a lot of posts I always hear "your founding fathers, our founding fathers".

Well, 'your founding fathers' were not your fathers but conspirators. They belonged to European secret societies.
Americans have fallen for the lie, just like all of us Europeans.

'He who pays the piper calls the tune'

Europe had the budget and called the tune, your 'founding fathers' (the pipers) played it and you all followed.

Originally posted by lastrebel

Originally posted by karileigh77
I think if you were to ask most Americans we would stand up for what is right not whats going on now

Then why dont they?

Because "they" is we..you and me...
There are efforts to make things better by the grassroots people. It is out there. Just smallsteps but people trying to do what they can to make their community better. An effort now in my county to raise 1,000,000 dollars to have a new school opened by fall. Efforts everywhere to help those in need and those needing clothes, food, and people having fund raisers even to help those who need money to bury a loved one.
Efforts to fight the high cost of water here. People meeting and talking it out, then meeting with officials to see what can be done. people here are trying to make a difference ..it is small compared to the overall picture, but it is the beginning.
You can't wait for they to do it.. Start with small groups talking it out and then start appointing people who best fit a task to do those things. That is the way it is done here.
Added..Also this past winter..efforts made helping those who needed fuel to heat their houses was made and even men volunteering to cut up wood for those heating with wood. Even free wood was delivered to some.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
While I see your point and somewhat agree with it, it's too much like throwing water into a sinking ship. You're just prolonging the inevitable. I'm sure you know as well as I do that money wins elections, not beliefs or best intentions.

Now if Bill Gates were on a third party ticket, I'd vote.

I don't disagree, but as to it actually prolonging it? I doubt it really. This ship seems to be steaming along, however if I can get them to spend more time messing with elections than messing with me, then objective achieved.

They'll win, but at least I can say I tried peaceful means first.