Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

The leader of a group that marketed a fake currency called Liberty Dollars in the Asheville area and elsewhere has been found guilty by a federal jury of conspiracy against the government in a case of “domestic terrorism.”

Charges remain pending against William Kevin Innes, an Asheville man who authorities said recruited merchants in Western North Carolina willing to accept the “barter” currency, according to court records. Innes was indicted along with von NotHaus in 2009.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”

The case was investigated by the FBI, Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office and U.S. Secret Service with help from the U.S. Mint.

“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.

Full Article

WTF?! This is simply unconstitutional. We are allowed to use whichever currency we choose! If an institution sees it as legit payment then it is acceptable! Am I wrong or our gov't ripping our constitution to shreds this week?!

All the other municipalities listed in the Wiki article below better look out as ludicrous charges of "domestic terrorism" may rear their ugly head.

Alternative Currency
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by CoincidenceX
WTF?! This is simply unconstitutional. We are allowed to use whichever currency we choose! If an institution sees it as legit payment then it is acceptable! Am I wrong or our gov't ripping our constitution to shreds this week?!

If I remember this right they offered coins made of precious metals or bills exchangeable for same and promoted it as a viable currency.
Sorry I see no law broken here any more than bartering.
If I want to exchange one item I deem of value for another then by all means I should have that right.

He threatened their monopoly over the creation of money. They don't want you to have a choice.

As long as we're all in the same boat (under a 1 currency system), we either sink or sail together. But the Fed is at the helm, not us.

I may get flamed for it but I only had one thought upon reading the article.

"And still we do nothing."

An old bumper sticker with words of great wisdom once said. " Don't steal The government hates the competition".

The problem for the Government is that the Liberty Dollars had the potential to show the average American exactly how worthless Federal Reserve notes have become. The Government had to come down as hard as possible on something like that, and "terrorism" is the biggest hammer they have right now. If they could get away with it, they probably would have included charges of child pornography as well.

I like the last line in the article:

Congress has exclusive power to coin money in the U.S. and to regulate its value, according to the Treasury Department.

So I guess US Attorney Anne Tompkins will be going after Ben Bernake next.

Everything can be classified as terrorism these days. It's really getting out of hand. If someone wanted to give me gold or silver coins for the products I have to offer, I would most likely accept them. Chances are they'll be more valuable in the future than dollars.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Everything can be classified as terrorism these days. It's really getting out of hand. If someone wanted to give me gold or silver coins for the products I have to offer, I would most likely accept them. Chances are they'll be more valuable in the future than dollars.

I would have to say I would rather receive silver or gold over fiat paper any day.

I stopped reading their response after "legitimate".

We all are "outraged", but honestly, if you really were upset you would quit using US Dollars and create or adopt your own currency.

Change begins with you.
Dollars begin with you//

Originally posted by CoincidenceX
WTF?! This is simply unconstitutional. We are allowed to use whichever currency we choose! If an institution sees it as legit payment then it is acceptable! Am I wrong or our gov't ripping our constitution to shreds this week?!

According to the constitution, article 1, section 8:

The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof...

Bartering bread for beer isn't illegal.

Creating your own currency, without the consent of congress, is illegal.

If I'm not mistaken, it is perfectly legal to barter with goods and services. Liberty dollar would count as a good. Hell we could barter with slinkies instead of dollars for all it matters.

reply to post by furzball


According to this, it looks more like an attempt at money than a slinky.

This is what he was charged with:

... in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2

He was also "...found guilty of making counterfeit coins and an intent to defraud." Not domestic terrorism.

So, from that bit of research, you can barter goods all day and all night with no trouble at all. But when you start printing paper and striking coins that say 'dollar' on them and selling them to people as actual money is when you have trouble.

en.wikipedia.org...

A federal grand jury brought an indictment against von NotHaus and three others in May 2009 in United States District Court in Statesville, North Carolina,[26] and von NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. Bernard von NotHaus is charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in denominations of five dollars and greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371;

Resemblance and similitude.

reply to post by links234


Lemme see, other colors besides green, liberty coin off color/different design. No "in god we trust". Negotiable, meaning barter-able across the top. So can or doesn't have to be accepted. Terms of service print on some of it... wow, I think the government has a case to sue hasbro too.

Originally posted by furzball
reply to post by links234

 

Lemme see, other colors besides green, liberty coin off color/different design. No "in god we trust". Negotiable, meaning barter-able across the top. So can or doesn't have to be accepted. Terms of service print on some of it... wow, I think the government has a case to sue hasbro too.

No, it doesn't. In fact, if the defendant manufactured his barter instrument in the shape of triangular coins, or some golden object that remotely looks like Hasbro toys, the govt wouldn't have had a case on most items they presented in court.

reply to post by furzball


I could argue they bear a resemblence to US bonds. Newly printed $5, $10, $20, and $50 aren't very green either. I have a five in my pocket that looks like someone dumped purple kool-aid on it, while the ten looks like someone soaked it in orange kool-aid.

So no, I'm not buying the 'color' argument either.

So does that mean the other points of my argument are moot? I'd think not.