A Question for Skeptics. What if?

Just a quick hypothetical situation to consider:

Let's suppose that somehow we here on Earth knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, and that 90 percent of them were at least 100,000 years ahead of us technologically. How we discovered this is not important. The scientific community considers it as well established as anything in human knowledge. We also know that each of these civilizations is capable of travelling from any point in the galaxy to any other point in the galaxy in no more than three days.

In the above situation, would you be any more likely to consider some UFOs to potentially represent visits by some of these beings?

Why, or why not?

Discuss.

They are already here and i will laugh my ass off when the sceptics finally get the message. The earth and moon is full of alien artifacts but they just don´t see it. Excuse me they just don´t want to see it. All you need to do is open your eyes and follow the evidence.

reply to post by Perfectenemy


Cool. What evidence do you have? Almost ALL Moon anomalies I've seen look like nothing or compression artifacts. But I have seen one or two that made me think. I'd be interested to see what you've got.

I don't really want to say "dumb question," but anyone who still couldn't believe in the face of knowledge as long-held, certain, and overwhelming as the sun in the sky would have to be severely retarded, don't you think?

Originally posted by Orkojoker
In the above situation, would you be any more likely to consider some UFOs to potentially represent visits by some of these beings?

Yes.

Why, or why not?

Because then we would know that they existed, while now we only have speculation about their possible existence.

The only thing that makes me consider the extraterrestrial explanation as less likely than an terrestrial explanation for UFOs is the lack of evidence for any extraterrestrial beings.

reply to post by Orkojoker


Yes, in the particular situation I would definately rate many UFO's as being visits from other civilisations. It would make sense.

But the situation is not that clear and I am still trying to find evidence that is not easy to refute. It is annoyingly difficult to find.

reply to post by Orkojoker



ahh I see your point, It depends on if we have better tools as citizens for identifying crafts,ie whether they are terrestrial or not.

people still might not believe that ufo's are of extraterrestrial origin, but still secret military projects.

My view of ufo's wouldn't change, but I would look at them with a new awe inspired feeling, truly knowing that there is another life form in the vessel...

reply to post by Orkojoker


Orkojoker, very interesting speculative thread my friend and I hope that's one day the case - until I can come up with a good response, here's Dr Michio Kaku talking about similar stuff.

reply to post by Orkojoker

Let's suppose that somehow we here on Earth knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, and that 90 percent of them were at least 100,000 years ahead of us technologically.

Well if we knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species residing in our galaxy, then of course we would consider that many UFO sightings were of extraterestrial origin....that goes without saying reallly!

The fact of your statement is that we don't know that there are several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, so that sort of nullifies the "let's suppose" arguement really.

What gets me if so many aliens are visiting, why don't they make them selves known?

If we had the technology to visit alien planets with extraterrestrials living there, what would we do? Sure we might observe them for a while, maybe abduct a few to see what makes them tick. But I'm sure we'd eventually make contact. imo...

Originally posted by Orkojoker
Just a quick hypothetical situation to consider:

Let's suppose that somehow we here on Earth knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, and that 90 percent of them were at least 100,000 years ahead of us technologically. How we discovered this is not important. The scientific community considers it as well established as anything in human knowledge. We also know that each of these civilizations is capable of travelling from any point in the galaxy to any other point in the galaxy in no more than three days.

In the above situation, would you be any more likely to consider some UFOs to potentially represent visits by some of these beings?

Why, or why not?
Discuss.

You question don't make any sense. If you postulate AS FACT there are thousand civilizations, 90% with super/magic like techonology to visit us.... the logic conclusion is: there are great chance of visits to our planet.

I don't get the point of this question. There isn't anything to discuss.

reply to post by Orkojoker


Well, scientifically speaking, we do basically know that there are roughly 10,000 intelligent species we could theoretically detect in the Milky Way, thanks to the Drake Equation. Now, whether I think they're currently visiting Earth is a different question. To a civilization 100,000 years ahead of us, we must look like a cosmic backwater, in much the way a living specimen of Homo neanderthalensis would be viewed today. I believe that at some point in history we were contacted by some form of extraterrestrial intelligence, but not directly since at least the Foundation of Civilization. However, I don't think we're actively in contact with them today. That's not to say we don't already know they exist, various "Fallen Angel" incidents where unexplained objects have crashed seem to prove that there is something out there.

reply to post by Orkojoker


Well, I would have to say...why not?

I am one of those that believe that we have been, are and will be visited and perhaps, one day...contact! The thing is that we don't think, act, live or space travel like extraterrestrial entities. We presently do so as humans. Can you imagine how a species evolved hundreds of thousands of years ahead of us think, act or live? No you can"t. Impossible. We can only speculate.

And that's exactly what we've been doing for a very very long time.

S&F for good thinking!

reply to post by blackcube


'hypothetical'

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
I don't really want to say "dumb question," but anyone who still couldn't believe in the face of knowledge as long-held, certain, and overwhelming as the sun in the sky would have to be severely retarded, don't you think?

I wouldn't say so. After all, in our hypothetical situation, there is no more evidence that UFOs are extraterrestrial than we currently have. It has still not been established what UFOs are. The only difference between our world and the hypothetical world presented in the above scenario is that in this thought exercise, we know for a fact that intelligent life exists and could come here easily if it wanted to. We do not know, however, whether or not they have come here.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by Orkojoker

 

Let's suppose that somehow we here on Earth knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, and that 90 percent of them were at least 100,000 years ahead of us technologically.

Well if we knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species residing in our galaxy, then of course we would consider that many UFO sightings were of extraterestrial origin....that goes without saying reallly!

The fact of your statement is that we don't know that there are several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, so that sort of nullifies the "let's suppose" arguement really.

I'm not sure it goes without saying that, in the above situation, UFOs would obviously of extraterrestrial origin. Indeed, I have seen many skeptics argue that they don't doubt for a minute that there are other intelligences out there, but they doubt that those intelligences are here simply because the UFO evidence is so "weak" in their opinion. If the evidence we have is so weak as to not even suggest a non-human intelligence as its origin - even to someone who accepts the probable existence of advanced civilizations elswhere - it's not clear that the certain knowledge of such an intelligence would make the "weak" UFO evidence any more compelling to that particular skeptic.

Thanks for your input.

Originally posted by Perfectenemy
They are already here and i will laugh my ass off when the sceptics finally get the message. The earth and moon is full of alien artifacts but they just don´t see it. Excuse me they just don´t want to see it. All you need to do is open your eyes and follow the evidence.

show me a real alien...show me a spaceship...show me a "stargate".

Oh wait none of you can.

But yet you believers say "they are already here",
yet you cant give one shred of evidence.

I dont care about
stories
dreams about getting raped in the butt.
books

Skeptics only ask for ONE picture. One legit photo.

Yet all skeptics get on messageboards like this and others,
is
Replies from people named
hybrid
humanretillian

Its sad really.

I'm personally starting to wonder about the age range of this site

Ummm NO!

I will continue to look for other explanations until they land and let me on board and then take me with them to another planet. Because just landing on my lawn and shaking my hand or even abducting me does not mean they are off world beings.

And then I can say without certainty is is Alien's piloting the Flying Saucers.


Until then i can speculate other explanations such as:

Inter Dimensional Beings
Artificial Intelligence
Time Travelers "future humans"
Beings indigenous to earth/ the ocean / under ground
Military Black Projects
Something else ?

What do we really know? Could be something we have yet to invent even in our own imagination. Bear in mind as a species we haven't thought of every possible form of existence. There are probably colors, shapes we have never seen outside our spectrum or current understanding.

I heard that the "greys" are liars and are not from where they say they are.

If that were true then it kind of puts things in to a different perspective.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
Just a quick hypothetical situation to consider:

Let's suppose that somehow we here on Earth knew for a fact that there were several thousand intelligent species in our galaxy, and that 90 percent of them were at least 100,000 years ahead of us technologically. How we discovered this is not important. The scientific community considers it as well established as anything in human knowledge. We also know that each of these civilizations is capable of travelling from any point in the galaxy to any other point in the galaxy in no more than three days.

In the above situation, would you be any more likely to consider some UFOs to potentially represent visits by some of these beings?

Why, or why not?

Discuss.

Let me just make sure Im understanding what you are asking. You are asking skeptics "if aliens were real would you believe that UFOs were legit"? Probably not, see for it to be a UFO we would have to be out of ideas of what a reasonable person could believe it to be. So a few lights in the sky would probably be seen as an alien ship not a UFO.
So let me ask you a question, if we were to proove 100% that the moon is made of cheese would you believe that the moon was made of cheese?

reply to post by Conkey


I think you are on the right track, maybe. The question is this: If circumstances became such that, say over the next ten years, it became generally accepted by the scientific community - and by you personally - that the Milky Way galaxy was pretty much teeming with intelligent life, most of which was far in advance of humans on Earth, and it also became known that many of these civilizations had advanced to the point at which physical distance was no impediment to convenient interstellar travel, do you think these revelations would cause you to reevaluate your stance (if, indeed, this is your position) that UFOs are unlikely to represent the technology of a non-human intelligence?

I present this scenario because I'm interested to hear skeptics analyze the reasoning behind their own stance on the UFO phenomenon. In particular, I would like to determine, if I could, to what degree the skepticism of the members of this forum is due to what they consider the unremarkable quality of the body of UFO evidence, and to what degree it is due to other factors.

One of the most common skeptical rationales I've encountered (not that skepticism is a bad thing at all) regarding this subject goes something like this:

Skeptic A: "I do think that there is probably intelligent life out there, but there is nothing in the body of UFO evidence that seems to suggest any kind of non-human intelligence is behind the UFO phenomenon."

Another (less prevalent) skeptical rationale might be phrased:

Skeptic B: "I do not think there is intelligent life out there, or if there is, it can't or wouldn't come here. Therefore UFOs are not ET."

This last bit of reasoning seems like it would be susceptible to revision in the event of our hypothetical revelations. If Skeptic B became convinced - along with the rest of the world - that advanced ET life most certainly did exist and could visit Earth if it so desired, he might then look to the ET hypothesis as a reasonable explanation for the unexplained body of UFO evidence.

On the other hand, Skeptic A has evaluated the UFO evidence already and has decided that there is obviously no reason to suspect that any of the unexplained reports represent any kind of non-human intelligence, ET or otherwise. Therefore, even were he to become certain that off-world civilizations were common and could come here at any time if they felt like it, he would still see no connection between that potentiality and reports of unidentified flying objects, as the UFOs, in his opinion, give no indication of being the product of a non-human intelligence.

If one places oneself into the Skeptic A category, asserting that there is no good evidence that some UFOs may be of extraterrestrial origin, then any revelation of the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life elsewhere in the galaxy should have no effect on that skeptic's assessment of the UFO evidence, which he considers to be poor, especially if said skeptic has previously affirmed his acceptance of the probability of such life existing.