Horseshoes, trojans and orbital mechanics

I saw a thread here on ATS on about a Trojan asteroid that tags around with us in space but I did not notice any articles on Horseshoe orbits, since all the hubbub around "dark planets" and mysterious orbits I though it interesting to get a couple of thoughts about the truly bizzare behavior of a couple of odd little rocks

First are two of the moons of Saturn that share the same orbit: Epimetheus and Janus.

The planetary society in 2006 listed the moons as trading orbits inner and outer orbit positions (only 50km apart), but this appears to be incorrect as further observation suggest a much weirder relationship.

It would appear that they form two horseshoe shapes on the same orbit and they both spend some time as retrograde objects:




It's frankly It's a bit hard to encompass as it just seems to "fragile", but it's not alone:

Enter 2002 AA29:




This crazy little rock has a 95 year period and is often called the first true co-orbital companion of the Earth, but wait it gets weirder:
" (from wiki)...2002 AA29 is not always ...on its horseshoe orbit (it) can sometimes slip out of this pattern. This will next happen in about 600 years.... It will then stay within the small gap in the Earth’s orbit which it does not reach in its previous horseshoe orbit, and will be no further than 0.2 astronomical units (30 million km) away from the Earth. There it will slowly circle the Earth almost like a second Moon, although it takes one year for a circuit. After 45 years it finally switches back into the horseshoe orbit."

It also has enough spin so that it's centripetal acceleration outstrips it's gravity so it "..cannot possibly have been built up from individual small pieces, as these would be thrown apart by the rapid rotation.."

Cool, so my questions are how many of you knew about this type of thing? do you know of more? Is wiki wrong?
HOW THE HELL DID THEY EVER POSSIBLY GET INTO THOSE ORBITS ( especially 2002 aa29 ) , and if this can happen in a three body system what other non elliptical orbits might be possible for 4, 5 6, etc body systems ?

reply to post by Silverlok


That is quite fascinating really. Seemingly the results of repulsion magnetism and gravity. Beautiful really.
Your graphics only remind me further of the intuitive belief that I cannot shake. Which is: That just as protons ,neutrons, and electrons form a greater whole(not even considering sub atomic particles here), we as planets,
solar systems,and galaxies may do the same.I know it is not a new idea, but it does seem to make sense
in a truly humbling way. Very interesting observation that you have shared. Thanks.

S&F

Very interesting stuff indeed.
I'm digging through Wikipedia now ...
Star & Flag.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


I highly recommend, "Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets (Paradoxes Resolved, Origins Illuminated)" he may not be 100% on the spot but he does have a phd and did work as the naval observer for decades,
more importantly:

he theorizes what every stoner joke eventually touches...that there is no difference in local effects no matter what the scale as length as the frame of reference remains the same...which implies the universe IS the same at teh macro , micro and 'supro' levels ...from an internal frame of reference. It might be wrong but great science fiction and good reading just the same ;_)

reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator


That weird ass chicken emblem is exactly like one of the wall textures from the original tomb raider, but as you dig take a look at the very interesting relative motions of Sirius A and B (Celestia), it's my belief that the currently accepted motions for those stars are mis-interpretations or bad representations of horseshoe motions in stars. by bad I mean angular momentum would not allow them to remain in the same point in space if they orbit like that and their orbital 'paths' seemed to oddly mirror the pre-discovery horseshoe paths for Janus and Epimetheus). (yes I know they move but the acceleration is not right for the disposition)

reply to post by Silverlok


Doesn't exactly sound like summer reading, but I will check it out. Is the author like Feynman? I have read
a few of his entertaining and accurate science, or is he/she a fringe thinker? I'll search it and save you the time of
replying. regards.

Is this your author?

www.metaresearch.org...

322 ? I'll find out. Thanks

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Oddly you probably wont sleep if you pick the book up-
I haven't encountered Feynman. (this is an edit) hahaha, him no tom's book is a different compartment from Feyman, and fairly easy reading

reply to post by Silverlok


Well yes, If I remember the titles correctly 1. Tips on physics.
2.What do you care what people think?
3. Surely your Joking Mr. Feynman.

They are great. There are more, but that is all I have read so far. Thanx