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Are We Currently Witnessing the Setup of the Israel/Gog-Magog War From Ezekiel in the Middle East?

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posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 04:48 AM
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With the recent spike of interest in Biblical prophecy, I felt it prudent to give a basic explanation of the Israel/Gog-Magog war outlined in the Book of Ezekiel. Especially given the recent remarkable yet bone-chilling turn of events. We shall take a look at whether or not the current turmoil and uprisings across the Arab world have anything to do with setting up the pieces for what has been, until just recently, a very specific and confusing scenario.

Before I get started, I'd just like to begin with a bit of a diplomatic preface (if you will). I'm wholly (no pun intended!) aware that the vast majority of those on ATS do not hold fast to Christian beliefs or even take the Bible seriously. Knowing this, I'm obviously not trying to convince anyone of anything and am instead planning to discuss a specific event prophesied in the Bible, ultimately attempting to relate it to current events that we see escalating all around us. As such, the following post (and subsequent thread) is written solely from the point of view that assumes the Bible is indeed the true Word of God. Hopefully, it can also serve as a reference point to look back on and verify the Bible's authenticity should the events discussed herein truly come to pass.

I respect everyone's opinion on here and ask that the discussion please be kept on topic. This is not the place to discuss whether or not the Bible should be believed or not -- nor is it the place for any other theological debate save for the one currently at hand. If you don't like to read about posts from the point of view that takes the Bible as the infallible Word of God, than simply go read another post. Tis as simple as that!

Now, if you're curious as to how the recent uprising and domino effect of protests and government change in the Middle East may relate to a Biblical prediction made thousands and thousands of years ago, then please, by all means read on.

For those of you not aware of the Israel/Gog-Magog prophecy whatsoever, let's take a look at a quick primer on the topic in order to get you up to speed.

The word Gog, which appears in many different passages throughout both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, has widely been confirmed by many historians as referring to the region we now call Russia. Magog's identity on the other hand has been a tad more fiercely debated, but the general consensus has them being pegged as the regions we currently know to be Iran, Turkey, Sudan and Libya (among a few others). These four nations, along with Russia (presumably at the helm) will join forces along with many other Middle Eastern powers (all enemies of the Jewish state) to launch a sneak attack upon Israel. Or rather, what they think will be a sneak attack...

While the results and reasons for this Divinely predicted battle are a topic for another day and time, it's definitely worth noting that the aforementioned alliance of nations are essentially being guided into their own destruction by God Himself. Here is the main Scripture verse from the Bible that discusses this event -- bolded emphasis mine.

Per Ezekiel 38:1-11:

'1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of[a] Meshek and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshek and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.'

'7 Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them. 8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.'

'10 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On that day thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil scheme. 11 You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars.'


Pretty riveting stuff, no?

Now with all this said, I think it's safe to say that since the Lord will be tempting the Gog-Magog army hook, line and sinker in order to guide them into their destruction, He will also have His hand in all of the events leading up to the battle, yes?

Not really going out on a limb with that one, right?

Until recently, the vast majority of people who subscribe to this particular theory have been scratching their heads, wondering how in the world it would set itself up. Sure, Russia and Iran becoming buddy-buddy recently -- breaking bread over their cooperation on Iran's desire for nuclear warheads -- has been duly noted, but what of the rest of the nations involved in the prophecy? How would the remaining Arab allies be swept up into the mix and what would be the reason for the alliance outright attacking Israel in this inherently diplomatic and globally monitored age we currently find ourselves in?

Whether you believe in the Gog-Magog prophecy or not -- hey, even if you don't believe in Biblical prophecy at all, whatsoever -- you have to admit that the recent uprisings occurring all throughout the Middle East definitely have something behind them. Even if the uprisings don't herald the paved road to the Gog-Magog alliance, the fact that all of this is occurring in the immediate vicinity of the very epicenter of current and past Biblical prophecy is enough to warrant even the most ardent of disbelievers' attention. Is it not?

What do you all think? Will these newly appointed governments throughout the Middle East -- many of whom will likely consist of Islamic extremists with a vehement hatred for Israel at the helm -- be the straw that finally breaks the lets-attack-Israel's back? Are we indeed witnessing Biblical prophecy -- more specifically Old Testament prophecy, written and predicted thousands upon thousands of years ago (593-571 B.C. to be exact!) -- right this very instant all around us? Am I asking far too many questions in a row in this post and you'd like me very much to stop?

Well let's hear it! I look forward to reading all of your thoughts and insights on the subject. And once again, regardless of your particular opinion on the Bible or Christianity as a whole, let us all show the respect to one another that we ourselves wish to be shown in turn. Thank you and God Bless!
edit on 1-3-2011 by JDWriter because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-3-2011 by JDWriter because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Nice, well thought out post. S&F for you.

As for the conclusions, I think that we need to wait and see what shakes out from all of this turmoil in the Middle East, and what the governments that emerge look like. There would be more concern if they were homogenous, or even unified -- I seem to remember people viewed the Arab League as being the formation of Magog, at one point. But we don't know that yet, and where there is unrest, there is generally internalization for some period after -- though there may be a bit of saber rattling against Israel, most of these new governments will be too focused on firming up their own authority to get involved in an external conflict.

As for Russia, traditionally, they have been interested in the Middle East for want of a warm water port, but the fragmentation of the Soviet Union has resulted in a Russia that stands no chance of it, so I don't know that they'd necessarily jump on the bandwagon of disparate Muslim states going after Israel. It seems unlikely that Israel would retaliate against Russia with nuclear weapons, but I suppose that it's possible and that might be another reason for them to stay out of it.

Your reading of the text as an indication that all parties would be goaded into it is an interesting one, though, and if that's the case, all bets are off (apart from betting on the winner
)



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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I have an entirely different interpretation of Ezekiel 38 & 39, as follows:

First, I have no issue with your ID of Gog. Just let me add that Meshech may be Moscow, and Tubal may be Tobolsk.

That done, I believe the "mountains of Israel" nation is NOT the modern country which calls itself "Israel." Recall first that God knows who is Israel (all 12 tribes) and who is not - even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that the Jews are the tribe of Judah (a subject for another argument), they still do not qualify as all of Israel. If you are correct, the area would have been better ID'd as "the mountains of the Jews," or "the mountains of Judah."

Starting with Ezekiel 38:8, we see that this land is "brought back from the sword" and "gathered from many nations," and this could apply to Jewish Palestine, but note that it was "always waste" and that its people now "dwell safely." Palestine was not a waste place when the Jews arrived and since their arrival, they have never dwelled safely, but have gone about their business with one hand on the plow and one hand on the gun, so to speak.

Ezekiel 38:11 - here is the key verse, as this land is called "a land of unwalled villages...having neither bars nor gates." Jewish Palestine is a place of barbed wire, gates, bars, and walls. Ask yourself what nation in this world has no walled towns?

Ezekiel 39:11 - here's another big clue, "the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea." Now where could that be? There are two countries that have prominent valleys east of the sea. There is Jewish Palestine with its valley of Megiddo, and the MUCH larger central valley of California, in the USA. Yes, the USA, as I believe it fits the prophecy better, especially when you compare it with the vision given to George Washington in Valley Forge, or the visions currently being discussed here on ATS. Each time, the detail has increased, and the information has unfolded, but even in Ezekiel, Jewish Palestine must be shoehorned to fit. It in not at good fit, but America is.
edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: an extra word, bye, bye


The ATS thread I mentioned is this one: Chinese to Invade the West Coast of America - Russia the East coast. It is found in the Predictions & Prophecies sub-fourm.
edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: more information!



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Nice, well thought out post. S&F for you.

As for the conclusions, I think that we need to wait and see what shakes out from all of this turmoil in the Middle East, and what the governments that emerge look like. There would be more concern if they were homogenous, or even unified -- I seem to remember people viewed the Arab League as being the formation of Magog, at one point. But we don't know that yet, and where there is unrest, there is generally internalization for some period after -- though there may be a bit of saber rattling against Israel, most of these new governments will be too focused on firming up their own authority to get involved in an external conflict.

As for Russia, traditionally, they have been interested in the Middle East for want of a warm water port, but the fragmentation of the Soviet Union has resulted in a Russia that stands no chance of it, so I don't know that they'd necessarily jump on the bandwagon of disparate Muslim states going after Israel. It seems unlikely that Israel would retaliate against Russia with nuclear weapons, but I suppose that it's possible and that might be another reason for them to stay out of it.

Your reading of the text as an indication that all parties would be goaded into it is an interesting one, though, and if that's the case, all bets are off (apart from betting on the winner
)


Thanks for the reply!

You make some very fair points and I do admit this may very well be but a small speed bump in the overall scheme of things. Still though, something about it just seems so... driven. I didn't even think of the fact that these new governments are going to need some time to get back on their feet, but ultimately I think if the opportunity presented itself, the vast majority of the Arab world would jump on the chance to attack/invade Israel. Regardless of the current state of government -- not that this would be a very wise decision, mind you.


To be honest, I can't really think of a philosophy (other than the one you noted) in which Russia would be interested in wiping out Israel -- other than pure Anti-Semitic values, of course. Although, considering they'll be drawn via a hook in their mouth, maybe it will be something as innocent as Israel publicly condemning one of their actions or something. Regardless, it will be interesting going forward to pay attention to how Russia appears to perceive the entire sweep of revolutions.

Thanks again for your input!



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I have an entirely different interpretation of Ezekiel 38 & 39, as follows:

First, I have no issue with your ID of Gog. Just let me add that Meshech may be Moscow, and Tubal may be Tobolsk.

That done, I believe the "mountains of Israel" nation is NOT the modern country which calls itself "Israel." Recall first that God knows who is Israel (all 12 tribes) and who is not - even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that the Jews are the tribe of Judah (a subject for another argument), they still do not qualify as all of Israel. If you are correct, the area would have been better ID'd as "the mountains of the Jews," or "the mountains of Judah."

Starting with Ezekiel 38:8, we see that this land is "brought back from the sword" and "gathered from many nations," and this could apply to Jewish Palestine, but note that it was "always waste" and that its people now "dwell safely." Palestine was not a waste place when the Jews arrived and since their arrival, they have never dwelled safely, but have gone about their business with one hand on the plow and one hand on the gun, so to speak.

Ezekiel 38:11 - here is the key verse, as this land is called "a land of unwalled villages...having neither bars nor gates." Jewish Palestine is a place of barbed wire, gates, bars, and walls. Ask yourself what nation in this world has no walled towns?

Ezekiel 39:11 - here's another big clue, "the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea." Now where could that be? There are two countries that have prominent valleys east of the sea. There is Jewish Palestine with its valley of Megiddo, and the MUCH larger central valley of California, in the USA. Yes, the USA, as I believe it fits the prophecy better, especially when you compare it with the vision given to George Washington in Valley Forge, or the visions currently being discussed here on ATS. Each time, the detail has increased, and the information has unfolded, but even in Ezekiel, Jewish Palestine must be shoehorned to fit. It in not at good fit, but America is.
edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: an extra word, bye, bye


The ATS thread I mentioned is this one: Chinese to Invade the West Coast of America - Russia the East coast. It is found in the Predictions & Prophecies sub-fourm.
edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: more information!


Thanks for your input! I forgot to admit in the original post that I'm totally susceptible to alternate theories on Gog-Magog as a whole, including the nations identities as well. Indeed, it interests me a great deal!

Your reply has driven me to research what you've said further -- particularly what you said about the mountains of Judah referring to exactly that. I admit, it does make sense in retrospect.

Ezekiel 39 in particular is most certainly confusing. It almost seems to skip around from the past, present and future in regards to the different prophecies.

Thanks again for your reply. Awesome stuff so far -- keep it coming!



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by JDWriter
I didn't even think of the fact that these new governments are going to need some time to get back on their feet, but ultimately I think if the opportunity presented itself, the vast majority of the Arab world would jump on the chance to attack/invade Israel.


The basic problem, though, is that Israel serves a very real purpose for these leaders, one which would vanish if the nation wasn't around any longer -- that of an "enemy" to rally around. There isn't much love for Israel or the Jews amongst the Arab world, and a bit (maybe a lot) of that is simply manufactured by the politicians, because you're less likely to rise up against your leaders if there are these guys over here that you don't like, and your leaders don't like them either.

Hence the "tit for tat" minor skirmishes that characterize conflict between Israel and their neighbours -- the Muslims see that "we're trying" and the Israelites see that "we're ready", and everyone is content in their manipulations.

Take that away, and you've almost immediately a problem, never mind the threat of nuclear oblivion that Israel has in their back pocket, so until Armageddon is truly here, I think that Israel is pretty safe.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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There is considerable irony in the situation of that part of the world. The prior post mentions conflict between the Arabs and the Jews. It is not so simple, nowhere near monolithic. Jordan has more real Israelites than does "Israel." Its population is made up of Arabs, Palestinians, the remnants of the ancient Ammonites (from which the capital Amman derives its name), and the remnants of ancient Israel. Jordan has as many redheads as Scotland, so I have been told. I have seen evidence that the House of Saud is Jewish.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by JDWriter
 


Nope. It's just the emergence of non-autocratic regimes in a part of the world that needs serious democratization for the sake of the economic well-being of their populations.

You do realize that Gaddafi is actually saying stuff about the Zionists and all of that...and that his people aren't buying it, right? These are people that just want to live their lives properly with prosperity and some level of control over government. Now, we can't say that the governments that will emerge will necessarily be the best, nor can we predict what sort of governments will emerge, but the trend seems to be towards peaceful governments that focus on domestic needs, not governments that start costly wars.



posted on Apr, 9 2011 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


You may very well be right!

I do agree, in a perfect world, the vast majority of the newly elected Middle Eastern governments would likely be too busy undertaking the actions necessary for them to get their feet back on the ground. to care much about Israel To get the economy back in order as well as whatever society it is that they wish to implement is certainly a tall enough order for a government of any size and experience level.

But alas, we do not live in a perfect world... unfortunately. And while I'm not going to be so close-minded to try and say that every new Middle Eastern government is going to set a potential war with Israel very high on their list of priorities, the mere fact that there has been a massive influx and wave of these uprisings all across the Middle East is enough to bolster a divine confidence in the new regimes.

Indeed, the time may be ripe for a massive, Arab-backed assault on Israel. Or it may not be. With everything else going on in the world currently though, it's certainly looking like the odds are stacked in favor of this being the real deal, potentially.

Back on topic though, I do see what you're saying and even agree to a point -- that probably, for at least a significant portion of the common-folk that are involved in these uprisings -- a quick-and-direct path back to business as usual is likely the most coveted one.

But I do think that -- as stated in the original post -- unseen forces will be driving whomever is at the helm of these new regimes hard enough so that some kind of alliance will be formed. And no matter how much the common folk like their everyday, normal lives, is there really any doubt that the masses wouldn't fervently get behind a Middle Eastern Arab-formed coalition aimed at eradicating Israel for good? Never even mind that Russia may become involved in the fray. A host of Arab-aligned nations backed up by one of the world superpowers in a nearby region? Would be hard to turn down, that's for sure...

Oh, and thanks for your reply!




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