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Originally posted by adjensen
Nice, well thought out post. S&F for you.
As for the conclusions, I think that we need to wait and see what shakes out from all of this turmoil in the Middle East, and what the governments that emerge look like. There would be more concern if they were homogenous, or even unified -- I seem to remember people viewed the Arab League as being the formation of Magog, at one point. But we don't know that yet, and where there is unrest, there is generally internalization for some period after -- though there may be a bit of saber rattling against Israel, most of these new governments will be too focused on firming up their own authority to get involved in an external conflict.
As for Russia, traditionally, they have been interested in the Middle East for want of a warm water port, but the fragmentation of the Soviet Union has resulted in a Russia that stands no chance of it, so I don't know that they'd necessarily jump on the bandwagon of disparate Muslim states going after Israel. It seems unlikely that Israel would retaliate against Russia with nuclear weapons, but I suppose that it's possible and that might be another reason for them to stay out of it.
Your reading of the text as an indication that all parties would be goaded into it is an interesting one, though, and if that's the case, all bets are off (apart from betting on the winner )
Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I have an entirely different interpretation of Ezekiel 38 & 39, as follows:
First, I have no issue with your ID of Gog. Just let me add that Meshech may be Moscow, and Tubal may be Tobolsk.
That done, I believe the "mountains of Israel" nation is NOT the modern country which calls itself "Israel." Recall first that God knows who is Israel (all 12 tribes) and who is not - even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that the Jews are the tribe of Judah (a subject for another argument), they still do not qualify as all of Israel. If you are correct, the area would have been better ID'd as "the mountains of the Jews," or "the mountains of Judah."
Starting with Ezekiel 38:8, we see that this land is "brought back from the sword" and "gathered from many nations," and this could apply to Jewish Palestine, but note that it was "always waste" and that its people now "dwell safely." Palestine was not a waste place when the Jews arrived and since their arrival, they have never dwelled safely, but have gone about their business with one hand on the plow and one hand on the gun, so to speak.
Ezekiel 38:11 - here is the key verse, as this land is called "a land of unwalled villages...having neither bars nor gates." Jewish Palestine is a place of barbed wire, gates, bars, and walls. Ask yourself what nation in this world has no walled towns?
Ezekiel 39:11 - here's another big clue, "the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea." Now where could that be? There are two countries that have prominent valleys east of the sea. There is Jewish Palestine with its valley of Megiddo, and the MUCH larger central valley of California, in the USA. Yes, the USA, as I believe it fits the prophecy better, especially when you compare it with the vision given to George Washington in Valley Forge, or the visions currently being discussed here on ATS. Each time, the detail has increased, and the information has unfolded, but even in Ezekiel, Jewish Palestine must be shoehorned to fit. It in not at good fit, but America is.edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: an extra word, bye, bye
The ATS thread I mentioned is this one: Chinese to Invade the West Coast of America - Russia the East coast. It is found in the Predictions & Prophecies sub-fourm.edit on 1-3-2011 by Lazarus Short because: more information!
Originally posted by JDWriter
I didn't even think of the fact that these new governments are going to need some time to get back on their feet, but ultimately I think if the opportunity presented itself, the vast majority of the Arab world would jump on the chance to attack/invade Israel.