Yikes! The Uterus Police!

Originally posted by dalloway

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by JewelFlip

 

Exactly... Your post reminds me of where the USA is headed.

People - you want to see where your future is?

Watch this movie.

Chosen women for mothers, chosen women for breeders and those who are breeders, controlled like cattle.

Link to Movie from 1-10

peace

edit on 22-2-2011 by silo13 because: add new link

I was thinking the exact same thing!! That movie scares the living hell out of me! "The Handmaid's Tale" book by Margaret Atwood is even more terrifying than the movie. I read the book shortly before the movie came out in 1990. I consider it as important as Orwell's "1984," and Huxley's "Brave New World". It's making me truly ill just thinking about these kinds of political theologies. I don't know whether to cry or to vomit. The U.S. is absolutely headed in that direction if this kind of idealogy gets more deeply injected into the mainstream. I. Love. This. Country, but if it ever gets to that or even comes close, I am heading north as I'm sure many others would. And then nuts like Bobby Franklin can have it all to themselves to do whatever they want with it while we expats watch and weep from across the border.

****Leaves ATS site to google "[url=http://www.google.com/search?q=immigrating+to+canada&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1]immigrating to canada[/url

OH MY GOSH I COULDNT REMEMBER THE NAME OF THIS MOVIE BUT YES!!! JUST LIKE THIS!!!

reply to post by Aeons


Very good point.

Smoking during pregnancy was considered normal and perfectly okay, once upon a time. There are millions of people whose mother's smoked while they were pregnant that have no noticeable health problems as a result. I am not condoning smoking during pregnancy, for the record. Just making an observation.

My mother had recurrent miscarriages of unknown causes. I am the one and only out of 10 pregnancies. I guess in that situation one might be hoping that "this time will be it". There are extremely expensive options out there for these individuals who can't seem to get pregnant with a healthy baby.

They can undergo IVF with Preimplantation Genetic Diagnostics to prevent excessive losses. But this would probably not be a first resort, I am sure many losses would occur before this would even be considered.

I don't think there should be any criminal charges for anyone after having had a miscarriage unless it can be confirmed 100% that drugs or alcohol use was the cause. I am not really sure how they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it caused the miscarriage. I think at most, it could be confirmed that the person was using drugs/alcohol while pregnant.

Sure the part about miscarriages is ludicrous but I definitely agree that the term "Rape Victim" should be changed until the person is convicted.

Grrr. Everything about this makes me furious.

I was thinking about that movie, "Legally Blonde", and the scene in the classroom about the sperm that is never intended to inseminate.... the seed that goes on the ground, as they say.

Half a baby, mistreated. Maybe the men should be charged with neglect.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

Good point. If the uterus police are actual doctors, do they not have to follow HIPPA laws and not discuss the specifics of my medical history.

Well just like HIV, Influenza and Tuberculosis, they can make this mandatory reporting....HIPPA would be if I was your doctor/nurse and told your friend or whatever about your condition without your consent.

This idiot is just another pig in the sausage making machine.Anyone who puts forward such absolute crap should be sought out and severely punished. Take a serious look at his face and ask yourself...Is this a human being? Remember you are what you eat! And he cries out OINK,OINK.ATS'ers, we are at a crossroads in our history where we have the opportunity, and the blessing and courage of the people to say ...This is enough, this guy must go!! By whatever means we must rid our society of cretins who have no place in the system.Waste no more time allowing such garbage to have access to the media, and thus the ear of the peolpe.ARE YOU READY?

reply to post by SevenBeans


WOW dude... Your either very ignorant or very mislead. And quite frankly, it sounds like you need as good old fashioned @ss woopin... Not for your opinion (wich i see your point. "I think") but for the way that your expressesing it and coming across as a heartless bastard!

I'm a 30 yr old male and my wife is due in 6 weeks w/ our first born and for that I am very greatful. I thank (whoever whatches over us if anyone/thing/entity) that she hasnt ever miscarried herself but she has had several friends (3) that have over the past couple of years and I can tell you that it is not something women take lightly and shrug it off like "oh well" or they're partners for that matter as it equally affect my friends who are they're husbands. One of them went through it twice and was severley depressed for some time. Luckily the third time was a charm for her.
I can assure you that NONE of the women that I know of that through this smoke or use drugs or "NEGLECTED" they're pregnencies in any way. Actually it was the exact opposite with all of them because it was a first for them to all be pregnant and they did everything by the book.

Yes, there are people out there who dont really care and are gonna do what they're gonna do even if it "MIGHT" cause harm to the fetus. HOWEVER you need to realize, that is not the case most of the time wich is what you seem to think...

reply to post by ls1cameric


[color=deepskyblue]
He definitely has some interesting views, doesn't he?

On topic:

Miscarriage is rough for many reasons.

• Your body has failed you. Women are supposed to be able to have babies.
  
• If you have shared the news, you have to go back out and retract it.
  
• People say all kinds of horrible things (they think they are helping you, or comforting you) like "Maybe it just wasn't meant to be." For the record, don't ever say that. If you want to say something, say "I'm sorry you are going through this. I am here if you want to talk about it".
  
• You will be convinced that it was something you did or didn't do, even when it wasn't and there was nothing you could have done.
  
• There is surgery involved in some cases, which is scary.
  
• Baby bumps are suddenly everywhere you go.
  
• Everyone you know is suddenly pregnant.
  
• You will have a constant sense of uncertainty if you get pregnant again.
  

The good news is that it does get better.

Can you imagine if after all of that, you were investigated? I can't.

Congratulations, by the way There is nothing in the world that can begin to come close to seeing your baby for the first time. Even the second time around is still incredible. The term "love at first sight" will make more sense to you than ever before. Good Luck!

Originally posted by ls1cameric
I'm a 30 yr old male and my wife is due in 6 weeks w/ our first born and for that I am very greatful. I thank (whoever whatches over us if anyone/thing/entity) that she hasnt ever miscarried herself but she has had several friends (3) that have over the past couple of years and I can tell you that it is not something women take lightly and shrug it off like "oh well" or they're partners for that matter as it equally affect my friends who are they're husbands. One of them went through it twice and was severley depressed for some time. Luckily the third time was a charm for her.
I can assure you that NONE of the women that I know of that through this smoke or use drugs or "NEGLECTED" they're pregnencies in any way. Actually it was the exact opposite with all of them because it was a first for them to all be pregnant and they did everything by the book.

Great, I'm very glad to hear it.

Not sure what it has to do with anything that I've said though.

I think it should be illegal for a pregnant woman to get drunk every day. How about you?

Originally posted by ls1cameric
Yes, there are people out there who dont really care and are gonna do what they're gonna do even if it "MIGHT" cause harm to the fetus. HOWEVER you need to realize, that is not the case most of the time wich is what you seem to think...

edit on 23-2-2011 by ls1cameric because: (no reason given)

You obviously didn't read very carefully, it's common knowledge that spontaneous abortions are very common and i've never denied that.

reply to post by Starwise


Are you sure about that? First, it requires a subpoena for law enforcement to access medical record. Second, I have seen doctors give the records, but refuse to testify bc they say it is violation in confidentiality.

Also, you don't have to tell someone to be in violation of HIPAA, by accessing a medical record of a person who is not my patient I am in violation without ever speaking a word of what I read.

Originally posted by JosephJohnson
Sure the part about miscarriages is ludicrous but I definitely agree that the term "Rape Victim" should be changed until the person is convicted.

So you can be a robber victim, or a victim of crime.

But not a rape victim. Good show. And off topic. But off-topic repeatedly in a manner intended to deepen a "male-female enemy" divide. Very good.

Originally posted by Aeons
So you can be a robber victim, or a victim of crime.

But not a rape victim. Good show. And off topic. But off-topic repeatedly in a manner intended to deepen a "male-female enemy" divide. Very good.

edit on 2011/2/23 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

I think he/she was trying to say, if maybe slightly inartfully that rape allegations are sometimes false and the mere suggestion of rape can destroy the life of the accused. Therefore we don't know if the victim is actually a victim or is lying and until proven guilty the potential rapist is not a rapist, at least under law.

Calling someone a rapist before conviction would be libel if done in a public manner. This is why news papers should be forced to pay when they falsly accuse someone.

But very off topic.

reply to post by searching4truth

As mentioned earlier too, the medical record/subpoena thing is a slippery slope too as it relates to this topic. All of our medical records are now databased, cross-referenced and cross-indexed indexed with our social security and/or drivers licenses, and generally "out there." Things like cell phone records were to have remained private too, but companies now regularly share that information with law enforcement and in addition, law enforcement has tools that can obtain certain information from them without even a subpoena. What makes us think our medical records, already shared with insurance companies, HIPAA or not, will always remain private if laws like this were to catch on?

Originally posted by daryllyn
I don't think there should be any criminal charges for anyone after having had a miscarriage unless it can be confirmed 100% that drugs or alcohol use was the cause. I am not really sure how they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it caused the miscarriage. I think at most, it could be confirmed that the person was using drugs/alcohol while pregnant.

When people drive drunk it doesn't matter if they end up hurting anyone else (they ussually don't and even when they do it can't be proven 100% that the crash was caused by their intoxication), they still get arrested.

Punish the irresponsible behavior.

Originally posted by Aeons
And off topic. But off-topic repeatedly in a manner intended to deepen a "male-female enemy" divide. Very good.

The original post included this topic...

When you refer to someone as a victim it suggests that it's already been established that she was in fact raped (which often isn't the case). This is obviously prejudicial.

Remember the Duke lacrosse case? She was repeatedly referred to as a victim... turns out she was just a money grubbing liar.

reply to post by SevenBeans


[color=mediumorchid]You just don't quit, do you?

You have a problem with analogies. You should really cut back or I will arrange an intervention.

I can appreciate what you are saying.

But.

Both things are wrong, I can agree with that(as much as I don't like to say it). They are both irresponsible behaviors. But with drinking and driving, there is no gray area. Its against the law no matter how you slice it. You were either drinking, or you weren't. With the issue at hand there are many gray areas.

What, in your opinion, should happen in the following circumstances?

Who gets to decide what happens in these situations?

[color=deeppink]Scenario #1:

A woman is pregnant but is not yet aware of it. She goes to a party and has a few drinks. She finds out a while later that she is pregnant but is unfortunately already in the process of having a miscarriage. Is it her fault? Should she be punished in this instance?

Keep in mind that in this stage of a normal pregnancy, there is very little actual blood contact between the mother and the embryo. The embryo is being nourished by a yolk sac because the placenta is not yet functional.

[color=deepskyblue]Scenario #2:

A woman is pregnant and does not know. She goes to a friend's house and gets so drunk that she doesn't even know what's going on. She finds out after the fact that she is pregnant. She ends up in the ER in excruciating pain and learns that her pregnancy is ectopic. All the healthy and responsible behavior in the world would not have made a difference, there was never hope for the baby to survive. Without surgery she might have died as well. Should she be punished?

[color=lightslateblue]Scenario #3:

A woman is pregnant and once again, doesn't know. She has what she believes is her period for several months of the pregnancy. She has no reason to change her behavior, so she continues to smoke and drink. She visits the doctor for something unrelated and finds out she is pregnant. Upon ultrasound examination, she learns that she is 3 months pregnant but the baby has already passed away. The baby had Edward's syndrome which is chromosomal and babies with this affliction often die in utero during the first trimester. Should she be punished?

reply to post by SevenBeans

Only in the OP as an example as some of this person's other thought processes. Not the topic itself.

Originally posted by daryllyn
A woman is pregnant but is not yet aware of it. She goes to a party and has a few drinks. She finds out a while later that she is pregnant but is unfortunately already in the process of having a miscarriage. Is it her fault? Should she be punished in this instance?

If you're having sex and could be pregnant it's irresponsible to get drunk, do drugs etc. etc. so yes it's obviously her fault (who else's fault would it be?).

Having said that, I could live with some reasonable time frame into the pregnancy before there would be a punishment.

Originally posted by daryllyn
A woman is pregnant and does not know. She goes to a friend's house and gets so drunk that she doesn't even know what's going on. She finds out after the fact that she is pregnant. She ends up in the ER in excruciating pain and learns that her pregnancy is ectopic. All the healthy and responsible behavior in the world would not have made a difference, there was never hope for the baby to survive. Without surgery she might have died as well. Should she be punished?

A pregnant women gets falling down drunk, yes, completely irresponsible and reckless behavior. The result isn't what I base the punishment on, it's the behavior. Whether the baby turns out fine or whether the baby probably would have died anyway, it's still completely irresponsible. If I run down a terminal cancer patient when I'm drunk or harm them to a lesser extent, it doesn't matter that they were about to die anyway.

Originally posted by daryllyn
A woman is pregnant and once again, doesn't know. She has what she believes is her period for several months of the pregnancy. She has no reason to change her behavior, so she continues to smoke and drink. She visits the doctor for something unrelated and finds out she is pregnant. Upon ultrasound examination, she learns that she is 3 months pregnant but the baby has already passed away. The baby had Edward's syndrome which is chromosomal and babies with this affliction often die in utero during the first trimester. Should she be punished?

edit on 24-2-2011 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

See above.

Not knowing you're pregnant is a lame excuse.

If a pregnant woman insists on acting in ways which could result in a life of misery for her unborn child she should be given a choice... either you're confined in a minimum security facitlity until you give birth so that responsible people can prevent your neglect and abuse, or you get an abortion.

And I'll also say this... a miscarraige due to neglect/abuse can cause the unborn horrific suffering during the later stages of pregnancy, so it is not only something that can effect a life that doesn't feel.

reply to post by SevenBeans


So.....according to what you said every sexual active woman should neither smoke nor drink (or participate in any behavior risky to a pregnancy riding roller coasters, perform heavy lifting, eating her daily tuna sandwich, relaxing in a hot tub) because it may cause harm to the potential fetus, despite not knowing that she is pregnant and that approx. 50% of pregnancies will be spontaneously aborted anyway.

Really, the only way to accomplish this is to make it illegal for all women of breeding age to participate in such activities.

However, you are still disregarding the effects of men's behavior on their swimmers or behavior. What about a man who smokes around his pregnant wife, continually? Even though she is not smoking, the effects of second hand smoke on a fetus are nearly identical to the woman smoking herself. Every two hours a person spends in a smoky room (with one smoker) is the equivalent of her smoking 4 cigarettes herself, without ever actually taking a puff. The possibility of miscarriage still exists as do all the other negative possible outcomes, will you charge the smoking husband?

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

So.....according to what you said every sexual active woman should neither smoke nor drink (or participate in any behavior risky to a pregnancy riding roller coasters, perform heavy lifting, eating her daily tuna sandwich, relaxing in a hot tub) because it may cause harm to the potential fetus, despite not knowing that she is pregnant and that approx. 50% of pregnancies will be spontaneously aborted anyway.

Really, the only way to accomplish this is to make it illegal for all women of breeding age to participate in such activities.

However, you are still disregarding the effects of men's behavior on their swimmers or behavior. What about a man who smokes around his pregnant wife, continually? Even though she is not smoking, the effects of second hand smoke on a fetus are nearly identical to the woman smoking herself. Every two hours a person spends in a smoky room (with one smoker) is the equivalent of her smoking 4 cigarettes herself, without ever actually taking a puff. The possibility of miscarriage still exists as do all the other negative possible outcomes, will you charge the smoking husband?

Like I've said a million times already, I would only punish the most blatant, obvious, willful abuse and neglect.
Getting falling down drunk while pregnant qualifies I think. Do you think it should be perfectly legal for a pregnant woman to get drunk everyday?

No one is forced to stay in a place where someone is smoking all the time (except children of course). If a pregnant woman chooses to hang out in smoke filled rooms that is on her, no one is forcing her to. Having said that, a husband who insists on smoking inside with a pregnant wife is obviously an azz.