Could Prince Idris al-Senussi try and become leader of Libya?

Now I was watching CNN tonight, Piers Morgan, and the former Prince of Libya back before Muammar al-Gaddafi seized power was on. He was discussing the current situation in Libya and he appeared to be deeply troubled by the developing situation with genocide and possible Civil War. However he was openly optimistic about Libya's future, claiming it will be left up to the Libyan people to decide on their next government and he emphasized that there will be no Islamic Republic and there will be no power vacuum.

Prince Idris al-Senussi

What made me stop and think however is that he still wears his title as Prince like a bade of honor and has held it close, even though he was only 12 when Gaddafi seized power from his family. I begun to think about what this man could really be thinking about, he obviously sees the opportunity of returning to Libya as he is currently in exile because he is an opposition leader to Gaddafi, but I want to point you to some reports.

Protesters in Benghazi took down the Libyan flag from above the city's main courthouse and in its place raised the flag of the country's old monarchy, toppled in 1969 in the military coup that brought Moammar Gadhafi to power, one witness said.

Link

So what do you think? Any possibility that Prince Idris al-Senussi may return to Libya and persuade the protesters to restore the Kingdom? Or maybe elect him their leader?

Giving this thread a bump... I think this could be important.

Come on now this could be important. Anyone?

reply to post by Misoir


Something very important that people ought to know. Piers Morgan and others have been duped by this charlatan. Idris al-Senussi is NOT the Pretender to the Throne of Libya. He has masqueraded for years pretending to be someone he is not.

I refer people to a lead article written by Maurice Chittenden and Simon Reeve that was published in the Sunday Times in the UK on 9th July 1995 which details the sad case of Mr. Idris al-Senussi the people he tricked into believing his fantasy and the the world of make believe in which he lives.

The first thing to note is that Idris al-Senussi is categorically not the heir to the throne, pretender to the throne or even a senior member of the as-Senussi Royal Dynasty. To quote Debrett's Peerage - the foremost experts genealogical experts in the UK - Mr. Idris al-Senussi is "the second son of the sixth son of the second son of the younger brother of King Idris's father." As such he is a very, very junior member of that family and is actually disowned by them because of his deceitful attempts to claim he is the leader of the family. The true Pretender to the Throne of Libya and Head of the Senussi religious order and potentially the next King of Libya is infact Sayyid Muhammed bin Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Senussi who is the son and designated heir of the late Crown Prince Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Senussi. Crown Prince Hassan was the Crown Prince of Libya from 1956 until his uncle - King Idris - was deposed in 1969. Hassan as-Senussi was put in prison by Gadaffi and put through terrible hardships. Hassan became the head of the Senussi Dynasty on death of King Idris in 1983 and went into exile in London in 1988. Crown Prince Hassan died in London in 1992 and in his will designated his son Muhammed to be his successor as Head of the Family and Pretender to the Throne of Libya.

Prince Muhammed as-Senussi is recognised by the Libyan Constitutional Union as the foremost member of the old royal family and his father's - the Crown Prince - designated successor.

Other details readers should be aware of;

1) During the early 1990s, Mr Idris al-Senussi, a businessman who styles himself Crown Prince of Libya, spent at least £100,000 on parliamentary lobbying and public relations exercises to create a false image that he was rightful heir to the Libyan throne. He wined and dined MPs at Claridge's, invited them to his home in St Tropez, addressed an all-party meeting of MPs in the House of Commons and posed in front of Big Ben for a flattering
magazine article.

2) Forty-one MPs signed an early day motion in 1990, which described al-Senussi as "great nephew of the late King Idris of Libya, and heir presumptive to the Libyan throne". They included Jonathan Aitken, who resigned as chief secretary to the Treasury. The motion was sponsored by Henry Bellingham, Old Etonian MP for Norfolk North-West. He said to the Sunday Times: "If I have been duped so have a lot of other people, including the government. I certainly received no money".

3) Idris was exposed as a charlatan in court in 1995 when a magistrate refused to commit a man accused by Idris al-Senussi of attempted blackmail for trial. The magistrate said that Idris was "living in a world of make believe". After this he left the country.

4) Prince Muhammed as-Senussi, the rightful heir to the throne, has said; "I believe that it is important now, given the crisis that faces my country, that those individuals who have been mislead in the past, note the facts so that this type of confusion is not allowed to arise again"

Recently he has been attempting to capitalise on the disorder in Libya. This is dangerous given the power vacuum and could potentially make any attempt at a restored constitutional order in the near future much more difficult.

Here are some links people ought to check out:

Transcript of the Sunday Times Article: www.groupsrv.com...

Details on Muhammed as-Senussi - the real Heir to the Throne:
www.royalark.net...
www.anglo-libyan.com...
weekly.ahram.org.eg...
uqconnect.net...

reply to post by Misoir


It is a possibility. Gaddafi's son it just a temporary stay in the power vacuum, he will not last. It depends on how much Idris has held connection to the land and people. The military is currently fractured and this is where a lot of support is required. A democratic solution is where the common ground is and Idris may provide a rally point for the military, not sure. If Idris want to make any move back towards a leadership, now is the time. A democratic solution is the best way out of this mess, but it does take time for leaders to rise after so much suppression. Idris will need a patient and calming front, it will not do any harm him returning and getting involved with the process and debates. Good security for the next week or two will be important.


reply to post by wanderingeye


Interesting perspective. May the common voice sort this mess out.

reply to post by kwakakev


Idris means to usurp the throne of Libya from the people who rightfully can claim it; that is Muhammed as-Senussi the son and heir of the previous Crown Prince.

"Prince" Idris has taken CIA guns and already tried to topple the Gadaffi regime by using a militant group in the desert which totally failed. His conniving and dishonest activities strongly indicate he is NOT the sort of person a democratic and free Libya needs.

I agree a constitutional monarchy might be appropriate for Libya but that would be one which was "constitutional" and lead by the designated successor of the last Crown Prince of Libya. Idris, as I have said, is a charlatan and is seeking to take something that isn't his.

reply to post by wanderingeye


The connections to the the CIA is concerning considering their reputation. I expect a lot of Libya would be more familiar than I am with the reputation of Idris. The military is going to need some stability before the rest of the population find it. Once the power plays within the military have settled, then a united front to maintain the stewardship of the nation can commence. A more democratic style of governance is what is getting the upper hand throughout the other revolutions and is the likely outcome in Libya. If some member of past royalty can help steady the ship in these troubled times then it will help support the role for some form of monarchy within governance. Valour is the attribute required of the executive.

reply to post by kwakakev


Some genealogy from royalark.com

LINEAGE OF CLAIMANT: IDRIS

Muhammad bin 'Ali al-Sanussi al-Khattabi al-Mujahiri al-Idrisi al-Hasani, 1st Grand Sanussi. (Born 1787, died 1859).

3rd Son of above:
Muhammad as-Sharif bin Sayyid Muhammad al-Sanussi (Born 1846, died 1896)

2nd Son of above:
Muhammad al-'Abid Pasha bin Sayyid Muhammad as-Sharif al-Sanussi (Born 1881, died 1938)

10th Son of above:
Abdu'llah bin Sayyid Muhammad al-'Abid al-Sanussi (Born 1919, extant?) Deprived of titles and styles by King Idris of Libya, 1954. Involved in an attempted military uprising against Gaddafi in 1970.

3rd Son of above:
Idris bin Sayyid Abdu'llah al-Sanussi (Born 1957, extant). Claimant to leadership of family since 1989 and has “assumed” titles and styles on behalf of his family despite those titles being legally removed (as per the pre-1969 Libyan Constitution) by King Idris from his father and his father's descendants.


LINEAGE OF CLAIMANT: MUHAMMED

Muhammad bin 'Ali al-Sanussi al-Khattabi al-Mujahiri al-Idrisi al-Hasani, 1st Grand Sanussi. (Born 1787, died 1859) (same as above)

2nd Son of above:
Muhammad al-Mahdi bin Sayyid Muhammad al-Sanussi, 2nd Grand Sanussi (Born 1844, died 1902)

7th Son of above:
Muhammad al-Rida al-Senussi (Born 1890, died 1955) Appointed Crown Prince by his older brother King Idris in 1953, died 1955. NB.All his younger siblings save his elder brother, the King, were dead by 1953.

5th Son of above:
Hasan al-Rida al-Mahdi al-Sanussi (Born 1928, died 1992) Appointed Crown Prince by his uncle King Idris in 1956 and ratified by Libyan Assembly, became Regent of Libya in 1969. Deposed by Gadaffi later in 1969. Succeeded as head of Royal House on the death of his uncle, King Idris, in 1983. Died in London, 1992.

2nd Son of above:
Muhammad al-Rida bin Sayyid Hasan al-Rida al-Mahdi al-Senoussi (Born 1962, extant). Appointed as the heir and successor of his father in his father’s Will, 1992, a situation acknowledged by the Libyan Constitutional Union, the main "old regime" opposition block.

Muhammed is the legally recognised heir of his father who was the constitutionally approved Crown Prince of Libya. His grandfather was the previous lawful Crown Prince, his great-grandfather was the 2nd Grand Senussi and his great-great grandfather was the 1st Grand Senussi.

As for Idris, on the other hand, he is the younger son of a disinherited minor prince. His only claim to the throne would be that he is the great-great grandson of the 1st Grand Senussi, and nothing more apart from his fathers relationship with the CIA. With relation to the quote from Debrett's ("the second son of the sixth son of the second son of the younger brother of King Idris's father") regarding Idris's ancestry it would appear they were over generous, because according to Royal Ark, Prince Idris would appear to be the third son of the tenth son of the second son of the younger brother of King Idris's father, and worse than that, his father was disinherited by the King so he can claim no title - not even Sayyid - under the royal constitution