10 top 'believers'

The website of The Telegraph (a fairly large circulation mainstream newspaper here in England) has a new article today entitled Alien life and UFOs: 10 top 'believers'.

The article states that "Numerous public figures from eminent scientists to politicians have stated their belief in the existence of alien life forms and UFOs", which risk conflating the question whether alien life exists elsewhere in the universe with the question whether alien visitors cause UFO reports.

The article includes purported quotes from:
1. Professor Stephen Hawking
2. Lord Rees
3. Lachezar Filipov
4. Edgar Mitchell
5. Jimmy Carter
6. General Douglas MacArthur
7. Monsignor Corrado Balducci
8. Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding
9. Ronald Reagan
10. Mikhail Gorbachev

1. Professor Stephen Hawking

Last year, the revered physicist and cosmologist suggested that extraterrestrials almost certainly exist but that humans should be taking steps to avoid them rather than seek them out.

He said: “To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

“We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet.

“I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

5. Jimmy Carter

The US President from 1976 to 1980, promised while on the campaign trail that he would make public all documents on UFOs if elected. He said: "I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. I've seen one myself."

6. General Douglas MacArthur

The Korean and Second World War soldier, said in 1955 that "the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets. The politics of the future will be cosmic, or interplanetary".

7. Monsignor Corrado Balducci

The Vatican theologian, said: "Extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon. The Vatican is receiving much information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with humans from its embassies in various countries, such as Mexico, Chile and Venezuela."

8. Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding

The Second World War RAF Fighter commander during the Battle of Britain once said of UFOs: "I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nations on earth."

9. Ronald Reagan

The US President from 1980 to 1988, claimed he had seen a UFO himself. He said: "I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, 'Have you ever seen anything like that?' He was shocked and he said, 'nope.' And I said to him: 'Let's follow it!' We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."

10. Mikhail Gorbachev

The USSR's last head of state: "The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."

No sources are given in the article for any of the purported quotes, several of which have been discussed previously in various threads here on ATS, including at:
(1) The most Credible Quotes concerning UFOs. Astronauts, World Leaders, Scientists
(2) Amazing UFO quotes !
(3) Astronaut Quotes

The accuracy of several of the purported quotes is questionable and the lack of any stated source can make it time-consuming to check their accuracy and context.

Some can be confirmed or debunked fairly quickly but some can take hours.

In one case, I spent several days looking into just one particular purported quote...

I'm not suggesting, of course, that all the quotations are false. Indeed, several of them are well known and reflect views written by the relevant individuals and/or can be seen on Youtube. See, for example:





As I said in another thread a while ago:

Be warned - it can be very time consuming looking into "quotations" which float around on the Internet without any source. I've spent several days looking into the history of just one "quotation" (including reading about a dozen books and numerous online searches).

A good rule of thumb - if someone doesn't bother stating a source for a "quotation", ignore it.

Anyway, I found it interesting to see such an article on the website of a large circulation mainstream newspaper.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi
I wonder what caught the writer's attention and led to the publication of the article? I'm also going to take a guess that the ranking is random and not in order of fame, importance or belief. (chuckle)

Oddly, or not, the Telegraph has often shown an openness to UFO stories. I think it recognises a genuine interest in 'weird news' amongst people in general. With such accounts usually being inconclusive, it probably works out as a very easy job for the writer. Due diligence, checking sources and so forth can be overlooked.

A couple of years ago they published a 3-part collection of UFO images...140 Years of UFO Sightings. If you look in the side-bar of the link, there are many more Telegraph UFO articles. The images themselves are worth looking through...especially for people beginning to get an interest in the subject. There are some clangers in there from page 1, but some remain part of the folklore and mystery of it all.

Just for fun, cast your eye over this Top 10 UFO Cases. It's not a bad list until...

reply to post by Kandinsky



LOLOL...yep, until!!
Shame about that incident being included, and this from someone who actually believed it. For a while anyways.
Ya live and learn.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Nice thread, thanks OP.

The more people know about 'sane' 'normal' people believing in UFO's and 'aliens' the better.

The Telegraph is pretty good, lots of good articles.

This reply was meant for OP!

reply to post by IsaacKoi

The article states that "Numerous public figures from eminent scientists to politicians have stated their belief in the existence of alien life forms and UFOs", which risk conflating the question whether alien life exists elsewhere in the universe with the question whether alien visitors cause UFO reports.

I'll be emailing the telegraph to tell them what a terrible article it is. Must have had to fill page space or something, awfull

reply to post by IsaacKoi

1. Professor Stephen Hawking

Hawking's has clearly stated numerous times he doesn't believe there is an alien presence on/around Earth. All he believes is that intelligent life does exist out there (based on the math), and that when/if they stumble across our nice little planet, they will basically kill us all and steal our resources, or maybe turn us into slaves or something.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Oddly, or not, the Telegraph has often shown an openness to UFO stories. I think it recognises a genuine interest in 'weird news' amongst people in general. With such accounts usually being inconclusive, it probably works out as a very easy job for the writer. Due diligence, checking sources and so forth can be overlooked.

I've seen the Telegraph articles, and the various threads about them before. The Telegraph's UFO articles, even with their flaws, put the items in other British newspapers (such as The Sun and The Daily Mail) to shame.They are usually worth reading because they are tend to involve at least some original research and thought.

In my opinion, the items in each of The Telegraph, The Sun and The Daily Mail generally tend to be pro-UFO or at least very open minded. I haven't seen much evidence of ridicule in the main stream media in England (although each can sometimes smack of being filler pieces).

All the best,

Isaac

And?
So what if those ten believe...
I'm missing the point youre making.
What makes it even worse is I hadn't even heard of four of those ten.

I got a list for you.

Believers.

Me
Jimmy Carter
My mailman
Ronald Regan
My neighbors accountant
Bill Clinton
William Billy Billwillingtonstonenstenhowserly

See my point? Who are half those people, and who really gives a @h!& what any of these people belive in?

So honestly now, so what if those ten believe? Are we to assume just because they have a famous name makes UFOs ans aliens more credible? Are famous people immune to loonacy?

Heres another list.

George Bush Jr
Gary Busey
Courtny Love
Ozzy Osbourne

You heard of them,... they say aliens exist,... your reaction is what? Prolly not the same as the other list you posted. Why? Youre personal perception, that's it. You know these people are unstable crazies.

Now how do you know people dont precieve your list as being full of looneys? Cause to tell you the truth, Edgar Mitchell is one of the biggest lunatics I can think of. Anyways back to the point....

SO WHAT!

Originally posted by BrnBdry
Now how do you know people dont precieve your list as being full of looneys?

Just in case it wasn't sufficiently clear from the first and last words in my first post in this thread, the list (and quotes) come from a new article on the website of The Telegraph newspaper today:

Alien life and UFOs: 10 top 'believers'.

In other words, the list isn't my list.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Isaac --

Respectfully, I think there should have been a distinction given here between people who believe in Alien life and people who believe in ET-controlled UFOs. Those are two very separate things.

Furthermore, while I respect the opinion of these people, they are privy to the same facts about aliens and UFOs as I am; therefore their opinions are not any more valid than my opinion or any other person who may or may not believe in ET-controlled UFOs. These are just prominent people who happen to have a personal belief in alien life OR a belief in alien visitation of Earth.

For example, some people may point to Ronald Reagan's belief in alien life elsewhere as proof that aliens in fact do exist. Their argument would be that because he was president, he must have been told the "truth" by TPTB that aliens exist. HOWEVER, the fallacy in that argument would be that TPTB actually know any "truth" about aliens to begin with.

Reagan could have been just like me: a guy who thinks that, considering the size of the universe, life must exist somewhere, but I (nor perhaps Reagan) have no tangible proof of that life -- it's just a belief.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

Isaac --

Respectfully, I think there should be a distinction given here between people who believe in Alien life and people who believe in ET-controlled UFOs. Those are two very separate things.

Hi Soylent Green Is People,

Your comments, especially the opening word "respectfully", imply that you consider that you are disagreeing with my views.

In fact, my opening post included the following remark which appears to be extremely similar to - if not the same as - your thoughts on the matter:

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
The article states that "Numerous public figures from eminent scientists to politicians have stated their belief in the existence of alien life forms and UFOs", which risk conflating the question whether alien life exists elsewhere in the universe with the question whether alien visitors cause UFO reports.

One of the reasons for my posting this thread was to illustrate how easily many people conflate "belief" in "UFOs" with a view that it is possible - or probable - that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

All the best,

Isaac

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
The website of The Telegraph (a fairly large circulation mainstream newspaper here in England) has a new article today entitled Alien life and UFOs: 10 top 'believers'.

The article states that "Numerous public figures from eminent scientists to politicians have stated their belief in the existence of alien life forms and UFOs", which risk conflating the question whether alien life exists elsewhere in the universe with the question whether alien visitors cause UFO reports.

The article includes purported quotes from:
1. Professor Stephen Hawking
2. Lord Rees
3. Lachezar Filipov
4. Edgar Mitchell
5. Jimmy Carter
6. General Douglas MacArthur
7. Monsignor Corrado Balducci
8. Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding
9. Ronald Reagan
10. Mikhail Gorbachev

1. Professor Stephen Hawking

Last year, the revered physicist and cosmologist suggested that extraterrestrials almost certainly exist but that humans should be taking steps to avoid them rather than seek them out.

He said: “To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

“We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet.

“I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

5. Jimmy Carter

The US President from 1976 to 1980, promised while on the campaign trail that he would make public all documents on UFOs if elected. He said: "I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. I've seen one myself."

6. General Douglas MacArthur

The Korean and Second World War soldier, said in 1955 that "the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets. The politics of the future will be cosmic, or interplanetary".

7. Monsignor Corrado Balducci

The Vatican theologian, said: "Extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon. The Vatican is receiving much information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with humans from its embassies in various countries, such as Mexico, Chile and Venezuela."

8. Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding

The Second World War RAF Fighter commander during the Battle of Britain once said of UFOs: "I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nations on earth."

9. Ronald Reagan

The US President from 1980 to 1988, claimed he had seen a UFO himself. He said: "I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, 'Have you ever seen anything like that?' He was shocked and he said, 'nope.' And I said to him: 'Let's follow it!' We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."

10. Mikhail Gorbachev

The USSR's last head of state: "The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."

No sources are given in the article for any of the purported quotes, several of which have been discussed previously in various threads here on ATS, including at:
(1) The most Credible Quotes concerning UFOs. Astronauts, World Leaders, Scientists
(2) Amazing UFO quotes !
(3) Astronaut Quotes

The accuracy of several of the purported quotes is questionable and the lack of any stated source can make it time-consuming to check their accuracy and context.

Some can be confirmed or debunked fairly quickly but some can take hours.

In one case, I spent several days looking into just one particular purported quote...

I'm not suggesting, of course, that all the quotations are false. Indeed, several of them are well known and reflect views written by the relevant individuals and/or can be seen on Youtube. See, for example:

As I said in another thread a while ago:

Be warned - it can be very time consuming looking into "quotations" which float around on the Internet without any source. I've spent several days looking into the history of just one "quotation" (including reading about a dozen books and numerous online searches).

A good rule of thumb - if someone doesn't bother stating a source for a "quotation", ignore it.

Anyway, I found it interesting to see such an article on the website of a large circulation mainstream newspaper.

All the best,

Isaac

edit on 21-2-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)

i personally agreed with mr. Stephen Hawking, if they exist they most likely don't want to be best buds and show us the errors of our ways, no they want weapons and maybe us to be a army to assist them in fighting other aliens, and of course we won't and well have interplanetary war on us, yay

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Thanks for the clarification. Then the points I brought up are directed to the whole ATS community rather than directed to you.

My first point still stands that there is a difference between "Alien Life" and "Alien Visitation of Earth".

My second point was that just because a prominent person believes in alien life -- or even alien visitation for that matter -- that does not make the existence of those aliens any more "real". Many prominent people with this opinion (such as Dr. Hawking) do not know any "secret" information about alien life -- its just their opinion.

Dr. Hawking does know enough about the universe to understand its sheer size makes it 'probable' that intelligent aliens exist out there somewhere. It is that knowledge (which is common knowledge that anyone could possess; i.e., it's not a secret) that probably contributes to his opinion.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I'm not sure if you missed that Reagan saw something and followed it for a few minutes because that isn't a guy "in the know" whether he was President at the time or not, it's a first hand sighting by a guy that happens to have a position of power.

Does that make it believable? Not really, as stated, it's the first hand account of one man of something he and his pilot saw. No verifiable proof as most first hand witness testimonies are.

I think you have the right idea though and I can agree with your opinion to an extent but unfortunately, other posts in this thread seem to eschew intellectual thought as you put in your posts and instantly think that because ten well known people in science and politics state things whether they witnessed something or just go by hypothesis and mathematical thinking, that they are somehow to be discredited.

Robbie Williams is an egotistical former drug addict and alcoholic yet he's a respected singer in the UK scene (I personally can't stand him but still) and claims he saw UFOs. Does that make his testimony and statement false? Not really, we have no proof one way or the other to say he saw something of ET nature or that he was making things up and seeing something easily explained.

The difference is, somehow people take the word of people such as those in the OP as more serious than other people. Personally I'm a huge fan of Ozzy Osbourne and find him hilarious and extremely talented and if he saw something, I'd say "cool" and try to look more into what he saw then continue with my day (since someone else brought him up).

What we also need to understand is that half at least of those in the OP only spoke conjecture as in "we believe life does exist out there" rather than "I saw something, aliens definitely do exist". That's maybe what The Telegraph should have made clear in the article, that not all on their list had an experience.

Also to the member who mentioned not knowing the scientists, politicians and war veterans in the OP and talked celebrity, what you have to bear in mind is that The Telegraph is typicaly a high brow newspaper anyway. It has intelligent articles and talks more about politics, money and other such subjects than the trashy, celebrity obsessed newspapers like The Sun that have two page spreads on the latest football/soccer player's affair or who talk about what Rihanna wore at some pointless awards bash.

That's why while The Sun and others like it talk about what Robbie Williams and other musicians and actors saw, The Telegraph is more likely to have highly respected people from fields that newspaper respects as people it mentions as believing in or seeing UFOs.

Originally posted by curious7
Robbie Williams is an egotistical former drug addict and alcoholic yet he's a respected singer in the UK scene (I personally can't stand him but still) and claims he saw UFOs. Does that make his testimony and statement false? Not really, we have no proof one way or the other to say he saw something of ET nature or that he was making things up and seeing something easily explained.

One particular problem with UFO sightings and related statements by celebrities is that it is often difficult to contact them and seek further details.

How many pop stars or presidents have completed the basic report forms for UFO groups that witnesses reporting a sighting to a UFO group would routinely be asked to prepare?

I've only seen a very small number of such report forms.

(Possibly the question above should be in the past tense. I'm not sure that witnesses reporting sightings on websites and on Internet discussion forums are routinely asked to complete such details any more. Another step backwards rather than forwards within ufology...)

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


And there we have the million dollar question. How do we separate sightings from the "false, hoax" pile to the "true" or "hmm, it's a possibility" piles if the only "evidence" per se is first hand witness testimony? And does it make things more or less true if they choose to fill out a form on a Ufology site or not?

There really is no way of saying with a definitive answer that they exist because the lack of evidence or the easily debunked pictrues and videos say there's no way, top minds in our world and respected people say it's a possibility or that they held witness to something but with the latter, unless any of us were there with them, how do we prove it?

I'm probably making no sense right now so I'll leave it lol

reply to post by curious7


Right. Even though Robbie Williams could be considered a bit of a buffoon, I still respect that he is of the opinion that we are being visited by aliens. I don't need to agree with him, but it doesn't matter if I do.

Dr. Edgar Mitchell is another interesting case. Alien visitation believers point to his personal opinion that ETs are visiting the Earth as proof that alien visitation is "Fact", arguing that because he was an astronaut, he must have been given some secret information that is being kept from the rest of the world. The fact is that Edgar Mitchell has said many times that he was not given any secret information about aliens, and his opinions about aliens are strictly his personal beliefs. He believes secret information exists, but he insists he has never been made privy to this information.

Edgar Mitchell is simply a person who believes in aliens and who happens to be an astronaut. The idea of alien visitation could have always been popular with him, even before he became an astronaut. He perhaps became an astronaut at least part because of this personal opinion.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


That's exactly it. His "beliefs". Talking to someone who say they saw a UFO is like asking a religion person to show them evidence of an apparent religious vision or miracle they saw. It can't be done and it all comes down to whether or not the stories and testimonies are plausible to us or not.

There we go, I think I finally made a post that makes sense

Yeah...who dropped that 'turkey' on the list? And thank you Isaac for addressing 'quotation frustration.'

But what I really want to say is somewhat off topic: I stumbled on isaackoi dotcom last night and it made my day. I used your brilliant search feature and got a treasure-trove of info on a subject I've been looking into for awhile. It unblocked a 'dead-end' for me. Thank You.