"Shock and Awe" or "Crock and Bore"!!

Anyone else feel that the US military are not living up to their super-human reputation?Is the technology not up to it or are the tactics not right?There seems to be to much propaganda on the US/UK side.If we are so good why do we have to use lies to persuade the international community?Granted the Iraqis are just as bad but I thought we would not have to rely on cheap lies and exagerations.

[Edited on 21-3-2003 by John bull 1]

I have to admit, I've only been watching CNN world, and BBC world, as they are the only english speaking stations I get here. I am noticing some very large similarity's. Namely the mass protests that are still going on that are being showed on BBC, but havnt caught a single glance of it on CNN. On the normal tv they're all over. Seems there's a lot of angry people

I think we're seeing to strategies at ploy here.

1- Announce the plans for an overwhelming first strike, incite fear in the enemy camp. This way, we may get early clandestine cooperation from inside.

2- Attack slowly but decisively, being careful to allow as many surrenders as possible, target the leadership. This way, we have victory with as few casualties as possible.

From our vantage point, these seem to be the case. If this is so, I'm pleasantly surprised at the intelligence of the planners.

That is their stated goal. If they do not have to use the "Shock and Awe" campaign alot of lives and infrastructure will be saved.

John, it would seem to me that you'd support this concept.

Maybe I'm different. I watch NASCAR to see good driving and to watch the pit stop battles, not for the life-threatening car wrecks.

My point is that for whatever reasons the assault is not going as boasted by the "Talking Heads".

Expectations were lifted and viewers looked forward to a firework display rather than a war.

In hindesite was it a good idea to bring selective bombing forward?Its aims were worthy yet so narrow that failure,in the opening phases,likely.

Is an armoured spearhead with stretched lines of supply and support just confident or arogant.

As for my own preferences.As you know I did not believe any of it was necessary and so I will criticise the way murder is committed whatever.

First of all, look at today, 3 key points in less than 5 hours.

Secondly the goal of this first phase is to have Saddam ousted by his own people, which would eliminate unnecessary casulties, believe me if the US wanted, they could trample through IRAQ, IRAN, and Saudi Arabia in less than 3 days (Not that we would want to do that or anything

And last,

Other than giving up at the first sight of the US steel, what strategic impacts have the Iraqi military made? I see nothing from them, they haven't done anything but lauch a couple of mortars then surrendar.


In other words, we are doing what we want, when we want., And avoiding killing mass Iraqi's, which is the point of the mission.


Consider your point, refuted!

[Edited on 21-3-2003 by Shining Wizard]

[Edited on 21-3-2003 by Shining Wizard]

If you'd like to get into the murder issue, which you are now claiming, if you know that Saddam murders, tortures and shreds humans, if you know that dissenters are tortured and killed, their wifes raped and killed as well as their children, if one knows this yet ignores it and does nothing to stop the slaughter, in that respect aren't you guilty of collusion through your silence and inaction to stop the crime? I'd have to certainly say yes.
That, however, is the failing of the U.N. and not of this sovereign nation that cannot run around stopping all crimes against humanity. This government's mission and concern is to protect the citizenry, and that is what the campaign is about. I regret you do not see the threat against the citizens against my country as well as your own or that you do not feel the threat warrants action, as I certainly do.

At any rate, after this campaign is over, we should find out alot about what Hussein was up to for the last 12 years. I suspect the WMD were disposed of just as the scud missiles were, and just as Hussein said he would not set oil fields afire.

I suspect the US military is doing exactly what it wants to do.I think it is a great game plan.For months all we have heard about is this massive attack on Iraq.
Now it turns out they are slicing up Iraq one piece at a time.Iraq command and control has no idea what to do.They have no idea if they are safe in their bunkers.
It should also make post war transitions easier with most facilities still in place.
Outstanding military planning......
And the shock and awe plans are still there if we need them.

Originally posted by John bull 1
My point is that for whatever reasons the assault is not going as boasted by the "Talking Heads".

Expectations were lifted and viewers looked forward to a firework display rather than a war.

I dont think this war is being waged to attract viewers and boost TV ratings. I am very confident that the military knows what they are doing and as said already are trying to minimize casualties on both sides if at all possible. You're obviously anti-war, if they used shock and awe, you anti-war people would be yelling about unnecessary bombing and casualties but to this point they have used a more strategic plan and now you're complaining that they're not living up to the hype. They know excactly what they're doing.

CNN.com just posted "Breaking News" that a "massive bombardment" will begin today according to the Pentagon.

Should be good for the ratings.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Should be good for the ratings.

Indeed. Scary that this war is like May sweeps. "Let's get as many people to watch us as possible."

I understand and respect your anti war views, but to assume that "shock & awe" is a publicity campaign or that America can't deliver on it's promise of overwhelming devastation is unbelievable to me.

America's decision to make an early precise strike to take out �Sadman Insane� makes perfect sense to me. Why not end Iraq's leadership quickly at the outset, save innocent lives and preserve Baghdad's infrastructure?

The first phase of that campaign is happening as I write this response. If America wanted to put on a fireworks display for arm chair critics, then it could easily do that. Many people fail to appreciate how patient America has been from the beginning of this disarmament campaign began, by using diplomatic negotiations. All this could have been avoided long ago if Sadman had disarmed � he chose not to & now will reap the whirlwind. His blood, that if innocent Iraqi�s and coalition troops are on his head alone � not to be blamed on an aggressive American administration.

America is not the big bad bully here and to believe so is simplistic and misled. Like it or not, America is the world�s greatest superpower and I for one, love and support my country.

My biggest regret is that I�m personally unable to assist in liberating Iraq and ending the reign of terror that Sadman has had for the past 30 years.

America is still the land of the free,
Deep