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Skull in Underwater Cave May Be Earliest Trace of First Americans

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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Skull in Underwater Cave May Be Earliest Trace of First Americans


blogs.nationalgeographi c.com

Explorers have discovered what might be the oldest evidence of humans in the Americas.

Alex Alvarez, Franco Attolini, and Alberto (Beto) Nava are members of PET (Projecto Espeleológico de Tulum), an organization that specializes in the exploration and survey of underwater caves on the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico.

Alex, Franco and Beto have surveyed tens of thousands of feet of mazelike cave passages in the state of Quintana Roo. The team's relatively recent explorations of a large pit named Hoyo Negro (Black Hole, in Spanish), deep within a flooded cave, resulted in their breathtaking
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
news.nationalgeographic.com
nationalhumanitiescenter.org




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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No radiocarbon dating has been done yet but it's expected the skull is older than the established 15,000-20,000 YBP given for the 'crossing' of a land-bridge (Beringa) by Paleoindians.

"During the Late Pleistocene, these caves were dry. The first people to occupy what is now the Caribbean coast of Mexico wandered into these caves, where some ultimately met their demise.

"As the last glacial maximum came to end, the melting of the polar ice caps and continental ice sheets raised sea levels worldwide. The caves of the Yucatan Peninsula filled with water and the First Americans were hidden for millennia -- only to be discovered by underwater cave explorers"


Hopefully an analysis of the skull can shed some light on the genetic origins of these people.

blogs.nationalgeographi c.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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Awesome thread. Very interesting. I hope they can get some DNA off it. I am very curious if they can find any evidence that people sailed the Atlantic. I personally suspect that the ancients were much more adept sailors than moderns suspect, and that they began far earlier.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 

Their findings that the skull bears more of a resemblance to "southern asians" lends weight ot the idea that the first people form asia to NA were the ancestors of the peoples of southeast asia, the melanesians,ie thais, philipinos, vietnamese.
I have a great interest in this area of study, and one thing i learned recently is that in all of the known excavations of early northern asian remains, the oldest bearing definative asian morphology, is only 9k yeras old or so. There are no definative northern asia remains older that that.
A newer theory of the population of NA implies that when the first people came to Na between glacial cycles the came aloong the coast by boat. They were then isloated in NA by glaciation for a period of a couple thousand years, in the intervening time these people developed into the precursors of the modern northern asians, and then migrated back into north eastern asia during a land bridge period.
A couple of things that back this idea up are the fact that modern humans come in 2 distinct types, based on our teeth, 1)sundadonts, in reference to the ice age land area in southe east asia , Sundaland. Sundadonts comprise africans, south and southeast asians, pacific islanders and caucasians. While the other type Sinodonts, meaning chinese tooth, comprise northeastern asians and Native americans.
Also the youngest strains of human DNA are the northeastern asians, their DNA is younger than that of most of the Native american populations.
I think the people of the caves were descended from the first peoples that came down the west coast by boat and crossed the mexican mainland to the gulf coast. That would fit into the fact that the oldest human structures in NA are rock dwellings in Baja Cal. that are 12-13k years old. And in this area of baja there was an isolate tribe whos only genetic relatives are a now extinct tribe in tierra del fuego.

Very fascinating stuff indeed.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Awesome thread. Very interesting. I hope they can get some DNA off it. I am very curious if they can find any evidence that people sailed the Atlantic. I personally suspect that the ancients were much more adept sailors than moderns suspect, and that they began far earlier.


I think you are correct.I think that europeans came here during the ice age following perhaps seals along the atlantic ice sheet.I recently saw a science show ,where they said that there are more clovis sites on the east coast than around New Mexico where the first clovis points were found.I think that would indicate that there was a westward migration.Perhaps before the later eastern migration.I have been unable to find a link I had relating to a genetic study of certian native american tribes that seemed more closely related to europeans than to asians.If I find it I will post it.
edit on 2/18/2011 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by punkinworks10
 


What do you think about the possible migration of Polynesians to the western coast of South America?
By the way OP nice find I'm always interested in these finds Thank you for the post.S&F
edit on 2/18/2011 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/18/2011 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 




What an amazing find Ive read other articles about explorers finding bones and skulls in underwater caves can you imagine the excitement of finding something that might be 15,000-20,000 ..finding the genetic origins of these people would be so interesting.. please keep us posted on what they find out this article i find just fascinating thank you for the thread..S&F



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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It's a find not too dissimilar to this one; The Fire Caves of Nanumaga, in the sense that a lower sea level allowed for occupation of caves now fairly deep underwater.


Off the northern shore of Nanumaga island in western Polynesia's Tuvalu island group last year, two scuba divers investigating a local legend of "a large house under the sea" found an underwater cave morethan 40 metres down the wall of a coral cliff. Dark patches on the roof and walls and blackened coral fragments on its floor suggest the use of fire by human occupants.

The last time people could possibly have occupied the cave was during a time of low sea level more than 8000 years ago, a date sharply at odds with the view that the Pacific was settled just 6000 years ago. The evidence of fire may be ambiguous, but the durable cultural memory of the cave's existence is not so easily dismissed.

Pacific archeologists may have got it very wrong. In focusing on archaeological evidence, they have been blind to a vital piece of climatic evidence - a massive and continuous rise in sea level that began l8,000 years ago and stopped 4000 years ago and probably drowned most of the evidence of much earlier human migrations into the Pacific.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


Should these remains prove to be 15000 to 20000 years old ,wouldn't that indicate that the asian migration actually began earlier that the mainstream thinks?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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Id look at the teeth first


Im NA and have shovel teeth and 3 and 4 very long roots on my molars. Its an initial indication at least of the origin.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 

Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the so-called United States and the author of the Monroe Doctrine, dreamed up a theory about how this continent that outsiders mistakenly refer to as North America must have been colonized by Welsh sailors from the east and by Siberians walking across a land bridge from the west or else the Bible was wrong about everyone being derived from Scientific Adam, Sally Hemings the Black African slave he was serial-impregnating was not two-fifths animal, the indigenous tribespeople of Terrapin Island have an inalienable right to our own ancestral land that we have always lived on, our skeletal remains from the Carolinas to California that your scientists have determined are between fifty and one hundred eighty thousand years old are from a different human species than yours and that it is self-evident that you must stop committing genocide against us.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 

If a skeletal remain described by the "National Geographic" is more than twenty thousand years old that indicates it is from an indigenous tribesperson of Terrapin Island, the continent that outsiders mistakenly refer to as North America. Despite what Jew scientists tell you we have always lived here. Evolution theory is zionist.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 

The first wave of Polynesian boat-people began slaughtering natives in Guatemala more than ten thousand years ago. Less than half that time past the Hopis, who describe themselves as island-hoppers, used star coordinates to find their promised land in what is now popularly known as New Mexico. Their sand mandalas prove they are Tibetan Buddhist Jews like Richard Gere.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by ChiefHuntingBear
 


Ok chief whatever you say.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by ChiefHuntingBear
 


lol, now Chief why don't you tell us how you feel about the white man, and this time don't hold anything back.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 
I know you imprison the aboriginal Kooris who talk like this to you in Australia. You allege they aren't human to justify your holocaust against them.



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 


I also believe that the americas were also populated from the east as well, and like you said there are more clovis sites in the eastern us.
What I have come to believe is that the "clovis" point represents a movement of technology more than a movement of people.
The european analog to the the clovis point was developed by people who were originally hunters of large inland game. When the climate went into a full swing ice age the continent was iced over and they moved to the more temperate coastal regions and began hunting sea mammals. And did indeed follow the margins of the ice sheets to north america.
Also the construction method of the spear, a point fixed to fore shaft that is seperate from the main shaft is a very important clue.
When living in an area that is cold and tundra like, what is the most difficult thing to find? ANSWER: A straight piece of wood for a spear.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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Very interesting post. I am really interested in hearing how old it was and what else, if anything, is found as a result of this exploration. It's truly sad when people hijack a thread in order to spew their hate- filled rantings that make no sense and are only for self pity... tragic



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 


There is indeed the possibility than Early Europeans crossed over the Atlantic Ocean duirng the last Ice Age . Here is aa article discussing it .



" Caucasoid traits in the Kennewick Man -- with his long narrow face, slight overbite, prominent chin, and an ancient spear point in his hip (possibly from an enemy tribe), he looked much like Patrick Stewart, the Captain John Luke Picard of the Television series 'Star Trek'10 -- and other recent finds (revealed throughout the rest my research) challenge the conventional view that the first settlers of the Americas were Asian predecessors of Indians (the Beringian Bridge theory). The Fork Rock Cave in Oregon has been in the middle of ongoing new discoveries. The cave itself is small -- only thirty-five feet wide and sixty-five feet long. It was here in 1938 that about seventy pairs of sandals made of sagebrush were found . "




www.harbornet.com...



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Zanti Misfit
 

Thank you for the link.I will read the information as soon as I am able.



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