Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


The trader's job is to trade, whether its pork bellies, metals, securities or debt instruments. Thats what he's paid to do. They work in a bank with thousands of people and likely never met the folks to engineered the CDO and was not told what was in it, only its rating. When he's given the job to trade a AAA debt security, thats what he does.

Its not the borrowers JOB to sign up for a loan he can't afford

Big difference

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by ladyinwaiting

 

Lawful?
What laws?
The Egyptians were "unlawful" according to the law.
LOL.
Lawful.
Our government has abandoned all pretext at law. Try prosecuting anyone powerful. They have the money and the money buys the law.

so what do you think should happen to the us military? the postal carriers? the DoD? government employees?

let.me.guess!

these rich guys, stage a coup, and every body else gets screwed coming and going.

reply to post by jacobe001


I do not recall me saying everyone signing the papers were trying to buy above their means, if you can show me where I said such a thing please do so, if not do not make it seem as if I said such a thing.

Many who bought though were trying to get more than they could afford. Everyone who signed those papers know their income. Some got screwed by life and they should get help, but those who were trying to play the game should get jailed and fined, and that includes the bankers and politicians that let this all happen to begin with.

Again though, back to the advertising aspect. Who is at fault for buying what they could not afford? I know what I can and cannot afford as should everyone (average adult) who has money in their pockets right now. Wall Street can talk until their face turns blue. If I cannot afford it I am not buying it.

All parties are at fault (aside from the minority that got affected by the economy due to medical bills or loss of job) and should be jailed and fined.

Raist

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Let me guess. You're one of the folks who think that the toys in Happy Meals make kids fat.

I've never seen an add for a drug pusher, yet they seem to do a stiff business.

I love Porshe commercials and I would love to have a Porsche. Now I could likely qualify for a car loan to get one, but I know that I can't afford it, so I don't. I don't break out into a sweat when the commercial comes on and I don't feel crappy about myself every time I see one on the road.

When was the last time you actually bought something because of an ad?

reply to post by undo

There are no easy answers.
Most people I know work, and most people that are (at least recently) unemployed WANT to work. They, like me, bought into a system that was supposed to work for the betterment of all involved. We believed it was governed by law, and at one time it was (to a large extent). Not anymore.
The military operates from an unlawful premise, and no one should join up. It is ludicrous to believe that we should go and bomb other countries. Don't join, don't go, protest these stupid, never ending wars.
As for the post office, they should raise rates or cut costs. Or both. Or go out of business. They are actually private, or so they say they are. I don't buy it, but the post office tells their employees they are private, not federal government.
The U.S., as in UNITED states is done. History. Unless the states reclaim a measure of their state sovereignty and reform the federal government, we will become as bankrupt morally as our federal government is.
Harsh, maybe, but true. Watch.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by jacobe001

 

Absolutely. It has to begin with getting corporate money out of our political system.

Agree 100% on that bro. I posted the following thread earlier, which seemed to go largely un-noticed:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would say this guy and this movement is one we should be paying very close attention to imho!

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Come on. You sound like an educated person. Did you never take a marketing course? You know damn well demand is and can be manufactured. Otherwise how could there ever be a market for something new? Something people have never experienced and could not possible know they wanted?

Lets not get ridiculous in our writing off of the power of advertising. You think all those firms pay millions of dollars for advertising just out of the kindness of their hearts? They just want to make sure the children of poor marketers dont go hungry?

Marketing shows that buying a new car is the thing to do and everyone needs one.

I cannot afford a new car so I do not buy one. They can talk a game all they want and raise the demand all they want. The bottom line is I can look at my finances and know that I cannot afford one.

My cars are both 8 years of age and run great. I keep them running great with my God given skills. What I cannot fix I pay someone to fix, but I do most of it myself, because I cannot afford to pay someone to do everything for me.

Same goes for houses. They can raise the market all they want, if I cannot buy one I am not signing the papers for one. Not one of those people that bought a home was forced to do so at gun point. Everyone in the whole ordeal is guilty (I should not have to keep saying this but here goes, aside from those few who got screwed over by the economy).

As for advertising goes where is the responsibility of the people now days?

I have never in my life bought something because people told me I should. I make my own choices.


Raist

they're working up an excuse to imprison people that don't fit into the end result of their revolution.

1) you can't have taken a subprime loan and failed to pay it back, unless you lost your job or had medical bills. this will get increasingly difficult to prove and since it likely applies to alot of the people who did take subprime loans, they'll have to put in some kind of additional requirement for you not to get put in jail if you're poor and can't pay your bills. hmm. the new gypsies perhaps? this is starting to sound like the fascist side of the double pronged attack we've been experiencing.

ahd what about the other side?

2) you supported that evil capitalistic wall street, so off with yer head or some such.

it's a coup. fascists on one side, marxists on the other.
hey, i remember hearing about this before.

reply to post by dolphinfan

The drug pusher is a bad gent who should be punished. The addict who robs and steals to feed his habit is also a bad gent who deserves to be punished. Who is more guilty? It depends on your perspective, but one thing is for certain and that is if nobody wanted drugs there would not be a pusher.

Who's more guilty? The pusher who's also an addict.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

The trader's job is to trade, whether its pork bellies, metals, securities or debt instruments. Thats what he's paid to do. They work in a bank with thousands of people and likely never met the folks to engineered the CDO and was not told what was in it, only its rating. When he's given the job to trade a AAA debt security, thats what he does.

Its not the borrowers JOB to sign up for a loan he can't afford

Big difference

When you look at the bigger picture, it becomes obvious that they used greed as a tool to carry out their policies.

They knew that companies would outsource or offshore when there is more money to make.
They knew the traders would latch on to AAA rated derivatives that were "cheap" to make more money.
They knew that homeowners under marketing propaganda would invest in a house they could not afford because they could just sell it later and make a profit, since prices were rising.
They knew that have lax border control would allow millions of illegals to come in for better paying jobs.
They knew that having a base in most every country would provide the financial and economic stability for their plans.


They know that only enacting certain regulations will hurt the small business, that the big corporations can easily pay off, and eventually take over them.
They know that having central banks all over the world whom they paid off with TARP, will come into their plans
They know that the war on terrorism will help their plans when people fight back.
They know that TSA and more to be added to other places is a first preemptive step in their plans.
Encouraging immigration in all countries in Europe, the USA, Australia etc dilutes the cohesiveness and nationality.


All these things have globalism in common and more control for the few elite at the top.
I don't know if we will have a name for a one world government, and it is not necessary anyhow.
Just as there are 50 states under the federal government, there can be many unions under one central control.
Already, central banks control most of the world.

The government and the rich elite know all of this and more because they have all the information, secret or not at their disposal.

Power and wealth gets more and more consolidated at the top as they majority loose out.
Perhaps were all guilty for letting it happen. But watch the actions and the few who are making out like a bandit to see where were headed.

Were all guinea pigs, and while not everyone fell for it, enough did to fulfill their policies.

"The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
— David Rockefeller (Memoirs)

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years......It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
— David Rockefeller

reply to post by jacobe001


it wasn't greed. it was people trying to be independently employed, a tradition of this country. ya know, entrepreneurs? mom and pop businesses, some of which grew and became popular and then hit the brick wall known as taxes and import/export fees/fines, which grew larger than the profit margin. which forced companies who were still afloat to make hard choices.

it's a double whammy. it's like a brilliant chess move, in which you're so busy looking at the other guy's bishop you don't notice his rook. or his rook and you don't notice his bishop.

sad, really.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by jacobe001

 

it wasn't greed. it was people trying to be independently employed, a tradition of this country. ya know, entrepreneurs? mom and pop businesses, some of which grew and became popular and then hit the brick wall known as taxes and import/export fees/fines, which grew larger than the profit margin. which forced companies who were still afloat to make hard choices.

it's a double whammy. it's like a brilliant chess move, in which you're so busy looking at the other guy's bishop you don't notice his rook. or his rook and you don't notice his bishop.

sad, really.

I understand that, but it also plays quite nicely into their plans

and I am not referring to small mom and pops anyhow, but mega corps and investment banks.

We need more of those.

reply to post by jacobe001


what plans? to use their activities as an excuse to violently revolt and kill the very people who've been victimized by this two armed critter that is meant to mimic a constitutional republic? that makes sense. hey, if we managed to take it back without violence, the other countries would be goaded to blow us up anyway.

Originally posted by Raist

I cannot afford a new car so I do not buy one. They can talk a game all they want and raise the demand all they want. The bottom line is I can look at my finances and know that I cannot afford one.

So everyone is you? Everyone has your education, your intelligence, your training from your family, your psychological leanings?

I was 14 when I figured out it was stupid trying to look at the world with myself as the center of the universe, the standard of normalcy. You need to consider that strategy. Its bound to leave you disappointed with others. The average person IS easily influenced by marketing. Great care goes into targeting, honing, and delivering the message just right to slide it in and make it work.

Im pretty immune to advertising too. (Except food ads, those do make me hungry) But I no longer assume that the whole world thinks like I do. Or is as rational a decision maker. Or as conservative with credit. I was raised by people old enough to be my grandparents and got a lot of that good old Depression era training. Most people my age were raised by self indulgent boomers. Who were too busy with themselves and their careers to do much child raising at all.

Originally posted by Raist
I have never in my life bought something because people told me I should. I make my own choices.

Good for you. And I mean that. You sound like someone I would like. I feel the same way. I own a paid for truck from 1997, and have no desire to get another newer vehicle because mine works fine, and its paid for. And I take good care of it. I take good care of everything I buy, and I buy things to last. Quality, not prestige or quantity. Every house I have bought, (All two of them) were well under what I qualified to buy in price, and I worked hard up front to find great deals with built in equity.

Its nice to be us, financially. But. Its a fallacy to think that just because we are like this everyone is. Or should be. Clearly, most humans are not. Dont confuse wishful thinking with reality. You want to design an economy or political system that works you need to deal with the truth about people. Not what you wish they were based upon your own thinking and ability to delay gratification.

Most human beings are emotional not rational. They make decisions based on existing beliefs, and emotional responses, not facts and judgment. Its the truth about people, and if you were just one little touch MORE rational, you could acknowledge that. Because its irrational to expect rational behavior from the majority. Its not how humans are built for the most part. You are an outlier. And you cannot judge everyone by your behavior. Its foolish, and irrational to do so.

Originally posted by dolphinfan

The trader's job is to trade, whether its pork bellies, metals, securities or debt instruments. Thats what he's paid to do.
Its not the borrowers JOB to sign up for a loan he can't afford

Big difference

A borrower borrows. Its not a big difference. You know what the big difference is? You have more sympathy for traders. Its not a traders JOB to trade things they dont understand. Using the same argumentative form. See how easy that is?

Lets face it. Many people dont really know what they are doing in life, and greed makes them willing to overlook that fact as long as money is flowing their way. That goes for both traders and borrowers.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Raist

I cannot afford a new car so I do not buy one. They can talk a game all they want and raise the demand all they want. The bottom line is I can look at my finances and know that I cannot afford one.

So everyone is you? Everyone has your education, your intelligence, your training from your family, your psychological leanings?

I was 14 when I figured out it was stupid trying to look at the world with myself as the center of the universe, the standard of normalcy. You need to consider that strategy. Its bound to leave you disappointed with others. The average person IS easily influenced by marketing. Great care goes into targeting, honing, and delivering the message just right to slide it in and make it work.

Im pretty immune to advertising too. (Except food ads, those do make me hungry) But I no longer assume that the whole world thinks like I do. Or is as rational a decision maker. Or as conservative with credit. I was raised by people old enough to be my grandparents and got a lot of that good old Depression era training. Most people my age were raised by self indulgent boomers. Who were too busy with themselves and their careers to do much child raising at all.

Originally posted by Raist
I have never in my life bought something because people told me I should. I make my own choices.

Good for you. And I mean that. You sound like someone I would like. I feel the same way. I own a paid for truck from 1997, and have no desire to get another newer vehicle because mine works fine, and its paid for. And I take good care of it. I take good care of everything I buy, and I buy things to last. Quality, not prestige or quantity. Every house I have bought, (All two of them) were well under what I qualified to buy in price, and I worked hard up front to find great deals with built in equity.

Its nice to be us, financially. But. Its a fallacy to think that just because we are like this everyone is. Or should be. Clearly, most humans are not. Dont confuse wishful thinking with reality. You want to design an economy or political system that works you need to deal with the truth about people. Not what you wish they were based upon your own thinking and ability to delay gratification.

Most human beings are emotional not rational. They make decisions based on existing beliefs, and emotional responses, not facts and judgment. Its the truth about people, and if you were just one little touch MORE rational, you could acknowledge that. Because its irrational to expect rational behavior from the majority. Its not how humans are built for the most part. You are an outlier. And you cannot judge everyone by your behavior. Its foolish, and irrational to do so.

Great Post Illusion

I'm also in the same ballpark.
I rent and have never owned a house.
I have no credit cards.
I don't even have a TV, nor do I want one.
I have plenty of savings, and when I need a newer vehicle, I pay it in cash.

I am saying this because I see what they are doing, and choose not to be a part in it.
But everyone else is different, and some people don't want to even think about things like this.
That does not make them inferior as human beings either.
They have a a different outlook than mine.

We would not be what the government, banks and mega corps would like t have as citizens.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


i certainly hope you reaiize that emotion has a very logical place in rational thinking. you can't deal with topics related to human beings without taking into consideration all aspects of what it means to be a human. you aren't a machine ......yet.

furthermore, it is my duty as wife and mother to get quite worked up when i hear of violent revolution . i'll give you 3 guesses why that is and the first two don't count. are you suggesting because i love my significant others and don't want them to be hurt, that i'm irrational? nor do i want my husband to lose what he worked as a slave to the government to earn (namely his 20 year retirement), because 1) it would devastate him and 2) because it would destroy our family. you want women to jump up and down for joy over that because you don't let such things bother you, and as a result, you are already dead.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


So I gather that you are fine with the rational paying for the irrational behavior of the irrational. I'm not. Are a lot of folks in trouble with their homes? You bet. Is it the banker's fault? In some cases, yes. But right now, in many neighborhoods around this country the problem is that a gent who bought a house he could afford lives all around folks who bought homes they could not afford. Those buffoons went under on their homes and either walked away or foreclosed. Now what happened to the gent who bought a home he could afford? Now he owns more than his house is worth because his street is filled with foreclosure and for sale signs in front of houses bought by folks who could not afford them.

Its hard to blame all of that on the bankers.

We can turn this around all night. I believe in free will and responsibility. I don't care what financial schemes the bankers put together to create these non-conforming loans and I don't care what kind of sexy advertising was used by the real estate or banking industries to make weak minded people "have to have it". The bottom line is that nobody put the pen in somebody's hand and forced them to sign a loan document. If they did, the dude should sue him - and he would obviously win.

For every one of the folks who got over their heads in this mess who looks in the mirror and says "I should have known better and I'm to blame here" there are 1000 who look in the mirror and say "I can't believe that I was screwed! Its not fair!". Therein lies the problems with this society of ours.

reply to post by undo

You might feel like violent revolution if (when) your husband loses his retirement...
I have word from a trusted source that gold and silver will get confiscated by you know who, also.
Our labor. All we have left.
Good night.

reply to post by dolphinfan


i agree we are responsible for our decisions, i just think the wiggle room should be a bit more lenient in such a difficult time.

i received on the average of 50 calls a day from loan companies trying to get me to take subprime seconds on our house. this went on for almost a year. night and day, thru chemotherapy, breast cancer surgery, rain, shine, death in the family, non stop. and none of the voices on the other end of the phone were american.