Is Hitler really the worst ever?

You have Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc all in line for the worse. WWII killed 40 Million people the good guys and bad guys totaled.

Well, someone had to create the standard of maximum historical negativity in the modern era.
For many modern people, the Nazis fit that. The other two comes close.

There is nothing wrong with that in my eyes. Germany and Japan have done a lot for reeducation of their people and they should be praised for that. No doubt their self-chastisement which lasted for decades added to the image of Nazism.

There is something like an added layer which I can speak as someone in spiritualism and occultism - and these are more personal observations - namely that anything or anybody have to do with the active Nazi movement has a special dark weight on it. As open Nazi sympathizers are in power in my native country now, this can be felt sometimes.

Again, the question of annihilation - well, the Soviets did it sporadically, and only through a longer period of time. They also annihilated entire little nations. Nazis did it with horrible speed and efficiency, and for a reason incomprehensible for a normal person. Some of the cultural revolution's excesses are also plain mad like melting iron in schoolyards. But the Nazi idea that Jews were not real people - they were, according to the ideology, non-human fake beings created by the enemies of mankind to hold back their evolution - is clearly paranoid, if a person would profess it, it would be judged psychotic. If such a person couples that with violence, we are talking about raving madness married to violent action and a hysterical mindfit which Hitler clearly possessed. That is partly why Nazism deserved the pedestal of historical evil.
One last point is that surviving Jews are by and large an intellignet type of people and they did a fairly good job of documenting. Israel and modern Germany co-operated sometimes in redressing historical wrongs.

Also, of the two similar empires, Hitler's and Stalin's in the 40's there were many historical and spiritual reasons why it could be said that a compromise with the Soviets was still the lesser of the two evils.

As far as inhumanity and numbers of people killed or kept in fear, you are right, Mao is probably No. 1, and Stalin outdid Hitler. The recent award-winning film "The Soviet Story" by a Luthuanian filmmaker points out eery similarites between the Soviet and the German nationalist leader. They copied each other's methods and they were actually good pals until they desided to cheat each other.

Imagine a world where they did NOT overturn the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact - and the Allies never won. All of Asia is ruled by fascist imperial Japanese.

Stalin was an idealist and a paranoid power maniac, yet he was more grounded. He was more realistic. Usually he wanted long-term rule and exploitation and his own praise while no doubt he started the country through a bloody modernization. Clearly he thought there was something good in what he was doing - even if it required bloody sacrifices.

Anyway, efforts should be made to elevate these three to an almost identical status. Those oppressed by Stalin were more heterogeneous - all former intelligentsia, kulaks, Ukranians, Jews (they were transported to a camp style "homeland" called Birobidjan - near the border of Mongolia, all shamanic and smaller peoples, and sometimes only suspicious people as well as their relatives.

The choice is superempires anyway. Romanians recall Ceaucescu's dictatorship worse than Stalin's but they are a much smaller country. Pol Pot was no idle loafer either.

As far as my knowledge goes, the Nazis were also big with inhuman tortures and gestures too extreme in any society - like borrowing a baby on a street from a Jewish woman then smashing its head in front of the mother's eyes.

The hopelessness and depression, alcoholism and nepotism gripping all soviet lands were another specialty...

You in essence you are right - I am wriiting too long already, but I agree these three should be the epitomy of evil empires in recent history.

I'd add that in older times, the Assyrian empire was not very nice either, with tens of thousands impaled and left to rot - which correspeonded to millions today. The Aztecs were no picnic either...

"Worst ever" is too sloppy, subjective, and emotional a term to apply to history in any situation. Nevertheless, what does put Hitler in a "special" category of sorts is that he deliberately engineered the planned killing of millions of people in a mechanistic way. Most of the deaths caused by Stalin or Mao were incidental to other goals: Mao did not start the Great Leap Forward with the express intention of causing millions to starve. Of course this is cold comfort to Mao's victims, and I do believe they deserve greater acknowledgement in the public mind, but this does not lessen the particularly modern horror of mechanizing killing of one's own countrymen on a mass scale.

Originally posted by mayabong
But why not Stalin or Mao? I believe they killed more people than Hitler.

...its not about how many... its about marketing...

Originally posted by mayabong
I don't believe he wanted war, and I don't believe he wanted to take over the world like many say. I believe he was provoked.

...provoked?... no and it wouldnt have matter if he had been... he was just a puppet - a well trained actor saying only what he was told to say... the actions that he's blamed for were planned long before it was determined that he was beneficial to "the cause"...

...when you get down to nut cuttin - he's no worse than andrew jackson or gwb...

reply to post by HenryPatrick


Star, Brilliant post!

there have been many kings and queens in the uk who forced catholicism or the church of england on the people of the uk with death being the punishment to those who refused to abide, although times were different back then but that is still no excuse. we must also take into account the crusaids and other acts of horrific violence through history where if they had the technology, some would have killed more than any of the 3 heads of state mentioned in the op.

reply to post by mayabong


No emotional connection, unless it comes to Jews. You really seem to have a hate-on for Jews.

Hitler is "the worst ever" because he tried to wipe out an entire people. Stalin and Mao were bad, but they didn't try to eliminate an entire group. Though by this measure, the Ottoman Empire has to be high up on the list.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Please go back to page one, and see my post about the Jewish boycott of Germany. If this is not a provocation then what is it?

If you can shed another angle I'm open.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by mayabong

But why not Stalin or Mao? I believe they killed more people than Hitler.

Well, actually are all the same. All the so named persons that you mentioned commited "Genocide". For example:
Joseph Stalin

During the late 1930s, Stalin launched the Great Purge (also known as the "Great Terror"), a campaign to purge the Communist Party of people accused of sabotage, terrorism, or treachery; he extended it to the military and other sectors of Soviet society. In practice, the purges were indiscriminate. Targets were often executed, imprisoned in Gulag labor camps or exiled. In the years which followed, millions of members of ethnic minorities were also deported.[4][5]

In 1939 Stalin entered into a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany, followed by the Soviet invasion of Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Bessarabia and northern Bukovina. After Germany violated the pact by invading the Soviet Union in 1941, the Soviet Union joined the Allies to play an important role in the Axis defeat, at the cost of the largest death toll for any country in the war (mostly due to the mass deaths of civilians in territories occupied by Germany). After the war, Stalin installed subservient communist governments in most countries in Eastern Europe, forming the Eastern bloc, behind what was referred to as an "Iron Curtain" of Soviet rule during the Cold War. Stalin's government was also the driving force in the removal of political killings from the 1948 Genocide Convention.[6][7]

Time Line of the Great Purge

In the cases investigated by the State Security Department of the NKVD (GUGB NKVD):

At least 1,710,000 people were arrested.
At least 1,440,000 people were sentenced.
At least 724,000 people were executed. Among those executed:
At least 436,000 people were sentenced to death by NKVD troikas as part of the Kulak Operation.
At least 247,000 people were sentenced to death by NKVD Dvoikas and the Local Special Troikas as part of the Ethnic Operation.
At least 41,000 people were sentenced to death by Military Courts.
Among other cases in October 1936-November 1938:

At least 400,000 people were sentenced to labor camps by Police Troikas as Socially Harmful Elements (социально-вредный элемент, СВЭ)
At least 200,000 people were exiled or deported by "Administrative procedures".
At least two million people were sentenced by courts for common crimes; among them 800,000 were sentenced to GULAG camps

Is Hitler really the worst ever?

The answer is yes,because of the "Atrocities" that the Nazi-Regime under Hitler commited such as the (Mass deaths of civilians in territories occupied by Germany, Concentration Camps etc.etc.). But also because of "Publicity" followed due the Nuremberg Trials.

And here is a link about the World War 2 Casualties.

World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed.

Peace

Originally posted by Gixxer

i believe the number was 6 million jews, now i know ill get crap because ATS is full of jew haters (and no i am not one) but those kind of numbers are hard to argue with as far as "evil" goes.

and for the "holocaust never happened crowd" get yourself some medical help because your a psycho nutjob.

Actually the statistics show that Only 4% Of those six Millions were exterminated by the germans The rest died as a result of the Un-Clean and badly run Incarceration they were submitted to, The Nazi's did not plan this, Infact a lot of their soldiers died as a result of disease and infection because of the Pig-Sty conditions of the camps, However germany had neither enough money nor resources to contain the Jews Under any better form of containment, But it was hitlers fault because his dis-trust in the jews put them in such conditions, But the mass deaths were hardly intentional

To Ignore the facts is probably Bliss, But i dont

Hitler was not the worst. But... He found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


from what i was tought by my mom though the years Hilter was trying to succeed in Unifying the world as one under one government but he failed . and i tell you why .

it was the wrong time to attempt it , and also he went about it all the wrong way ..

the end result was 40 million dead and a world changed forever ...

reply to post by mayabong


I don't think it's that Stalin was an upstanding human being. There was just less documentation/film about his crimes against humanity. The Nazi's documented just about every aspect of their "FInal Solution"....

Wasnt he the grandson of solomon rothchild? so he was a jew. I bet when he was made aware of his family and the unlimitted finances that were promised. He would have been more than happy with what was offered, if he did what he was told. Nor do I think, that he died in the bunker. More than likely, he went to south america or new swabiland. Was he any worse than stalin? No better nor worse. For stalin, was also playing his part in the game.

6) Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf(1925)
The masses find it difficult to understand politics, their intelligence is small. Therefore all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points. The masses will only remember only the simplest ideas repeated a thousand times over. If I approach the masses with reasoned arguments, they will not understand me. In the mass meeting, their reasoning power is paralyzed. What I say is like an order given under hypnosis.

Just like Bush and his post 9/11 speeches .
Operation paperclip = Illuminazis .

Originally posted by Gixxer
i do not think stalin or mao killed as many people as hitler and definatley not for the same reason, when you try and exterminate an entire race then ya your labeled as a pretty bad guy, so i would say in modern times hitler is definatley the most evil bastard around.

i believe the number was 6 million jews, now i know ill get crap because ATS is full of jew haters (and no i am not one) but those kind of numbers are hard to argue with as far as "evil" goes.

and for the "holocaust never happened crowd" get yourself some medical help because your a psycho nutjob.

Hitler was on a campaign against those who were destroying Germany from the inside, just as the Zionist-controlled Federal Reserve is destroying America at this very moment. Many innocent jews bore the brunt of this campaign, but TedHodgson is right that it was the conditions of the camps that killed most of the people. The jews were being handled just like the Japanese were being handled in America during the time period, herded up and driven into camps, and the difference is that America could afford food and sanitation at the time. Pictures of holocaust jews show them as skin and bones and malnourished, so why not kill them with supposed gas chambers if that was the plan? why let them starve to death while taking up space? exactly, the official story makes no sense...
There were barely 6 million jews on the whole continent before the war, much less in Germany to be murdered...and you "do not think stalin or mao killed as many people as hitler"? well that is some pretty strong evidence you present, but unfortunately the facts show that Stalin killed at least 20 million people...you think what you think because of propaganda, i think what i think because of the study of what is known as facts, soooo...and as for your statement that "ATS is full of jew haters", i have jewish blood coursing through my veins and i dont hate myself or my jewish friends, but i absolutely despise the Zionists whose goal is to subject all of mankind to financial slavery...ATS has a lot of thinking people who dont just accept what they have been told, so maybe that is where you are confused...

reply to post by Gixxer


King Leopold II of Belgium killed roughly 10 million Congolese between 1885 and 1908, that was half the population of the Congo...so i guess he was a bit more evil than Hitler. In the end though it is useless to discuss who is more evil imo, because when we get in to these sorts of numbers the word evil is meaningless to describe these people, it simply comes down to the question of who was a more efficient mass murderer.

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