LEO running scared!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by centurion1211

True enough in theory, but would you not agree that vigorously enforcing laws would lend itself to a tendency to not violate those laws?

Reality says otherwise. Look at drug usage, or even speeding as only two examples of LEO epic fails.

It is that tendency that promotes the ideal that law enforcement prevent crimes... true enough, they do not in theory but their actions can have that effect to a degree. Just as a lack of appropriate action can have the opposite effect and encourage crime.

The only way LE can prevent crimes is by being there to stop it, or somehow being there for the planning stages of a crime. Otherwise you are on your own and heaven help you if you did have to protect yourself and LE finally does show up.

One aspect of your post is apt. It is not up to the police to protect one at all times. It's simply not possible. Thus my disclaimer about the firearms debate. It is up to the police to handle the things that ordinary people are not equipped nor trained to handle, such as gang violence. To say different is to say that a doctor need do no more than suggest over-the-counter medication. Anyone can do that; the purpose of having a doctor is to go beyond one's own capabilities, just as the purpose of having police is to provide protection beyond one's own capabilities.

Not sure where you are at, but here LE seems to run from dangerous gang issues and prefers "softer targets of opportunity" like women driving alone in a nice car - easy to intimidate and likely to be able to pay the fine - and the courts rubber-stamp LE testimony even when proven to be "incorrect" to keep the money flowing in.

As for the 'serve' aspect, that is technically not their job, but it is something that is sorely needed. Anything that helps to promote their appearance in the mind of society is a good thing at this point, be it helping someone stranded call a wrecker, helping console someone at an accident scene, or helping a stray child find their way back home. No, these actions are not defined as 'combating crime', but they do aid the police themselves, if only by convincing people that they are on the same side of the law.

Then they should remove the "to serve" motto from their cars, etc. since the only entities they serve any more are the ones they work for - not the public they claim to serve.

At least, that's how it is supposed to work...

TheRedneck

The point of my previous post. And, for the most part, I think it did work that way once. Now LE is just as screwed up as everything else is, except they have all the chips on their side and the average citizen has none.

reply to post by centurion1211


Oh, and check out this related thread to understand what can happen to LE when they start to "feel the power".

thread

reply to post by centurion1211

The point of my previous post. And, for the most part, I think it did work that way once. Now LE is just as screwed up as everything else is, except they have all the chips on their side and the average citizen has none.

Exactly my point. You are discussing where we are now; I am discussing where we were, in hopes of helping to return to such a time.

You mention law enforcement running from gang activity. I'm sure many of them do. As a matter of fact, I know places where law enforcement simply does not go. Some of them due to the high crime rate, beyond their capability to handle, and some because there is no crime because the people that live there handle things themselves... and would consider an officer coming to their house as trespassing and probably shoot them.

Yes, those places do still exist in isolated areas.

But back to the discussion... bemoaning what is changes nothing; it only adds fuel to the flame that threatens to consume all of society. The only way anything can change is for both the public and law enforcement to work together, and I am truly sorry to say that your post shows just how unlikely that is to happen.

TheRedneck

This probably wont be popular but:
IF as a citizen I saw law enforcement being over run by drug gangs in an all out crazy war on the streets,
I'd do my best to start dropping the bad guys and helping the LEO's.

IF however I saw LEO's over stepping and just attacking regular citizens, like in a police state nazi type of way,
They would NOT have a friend in me, no sir, quite the opposite in fact.

Just sayin.

reply to post by iSHRED


I like your disclaimer , have you ever thought of entering politics ???

Originally posted by TheRedneck

But back to the discussion... bemoaning what is changes nothing; it only adds fuel to the flame that threatens to consume all of society. The only way anything can change is for both the public and law enforcement to work together, and I am truly sorry to say that your post shows just how unlikely that is to happen.

TheRedneck

Sounds like you're asking me - and many others - to in effect just turn the other cheek.

Sorry, for me respect is not automatically given, it must be earned. And once lost, LE needs to work extra hard to earn it back. All I have to offer is turning the other cheek, and right now I think all that gets me is the other fist.

reply to post by iSHRED


This is carrying the proverbial comparison of "Apples to Oranges" to the level of absurd I think.

If criminals here tried to mimic what is happening in that Third World Hell-Hole, most of us would join our law enforcement in taking them down. They would be so outnumbered it would not even be a contest. Just because we use our Free Speech to debate our views, does not mean we would not join together to defend against Thugs. People who think otherwise here are in prison, between stays in prison or soon to go to prison. If the Gangs here realized how strong the animosity is towards them here, they would flee to Mexico if they could.

In Mexico the people just do nothing because that has been the nature of their culture for many generations due to their government and law enforcement being in lock-step with the Cartels. They understandably have been beaten down by the team effort of government, law enforcement and cartels all being the same people. It's one of the reasons so many take such risks to come here.

Only the tiny, tiny number of violent anti-government and authority crowd would be sick enough to join in with this kind of behavior and thankfully most of them either grow up or go to prison quite young.

reply to post by stirling


You and I are totally on the same wavelength here. You put it much better than I've attempted to.

A while back there was an organization of law enforcement personnel countrywide, in pretty impressive numbers, doing just what we're doing here...recognizing exactly what this, planning for it, and spreading the word among their ranks.

It was publicized for a while, but last I heard they were going under cover because they determined it wouldn't be a great idea for certain people to know who they were. I don't blame them for that and I hope they're still out there. Point being, you're right about getting together. We can't allow this to be yet another thing that divides us for the kill.

WUK,
how you gonna tell me to "grow the HELL up"
As clearly pointed out in The Redneck's first post, your view on LE is all relative.
JOE #1 thinks: LE is useless, they didnt do SH#T for me
JOE #2 thinks: LE made a promise and followed through when i needed them.

Not once did i encourage harming LEO.
actually all i posted in my OP was questions... then i chose to defend the other side then you.

I know a majority of officers are people with good intentions, but that doesnt mean they dont do F'ED up things. They will enforce bunk laws to keep their job.

As The Redneck said, i'd like thinks to go back to how they were.
but i think we've crossed a line that it cant simply just go back...
our legal system is a joke right now and is not there to help the people, and how to fix that, i do not know

but again
I NEVER SAID TO GO SHOOT COPS

Originally posted by whatukno
It's called MURDER people! You think killing another human being is ok? You want to justify it somehow? How do you justify MURDER?

I think ur pointing the finger in the
wrong direction. u wanna talk murder?
Let's talk about the CIA.

57 yrs of service of the CIA
57 X 365 days a yr = 20,805 days.
6 Million Dead divided by 20,805 days = 288 murdered persons per day avg.

Now u tell me, how do you justify that ????

People who think this is ok to shoot their fellow Americans and don't fool yourselves, cops are your fellow Americans, are traitors and terrorists. I am fed up with people thinking this is acceptable behavior and thinking that this is ok to do.

Cops are killing thier 'Fellow Americans' almost on a daily basis, with these killings being done over such things as refusing to speak to them, playing music too loud, verbaly denouncing police action, resisting arrest against unconstitutional legislation or unconstitutional charges, attempts at preventing the police from engaging in criminal behavior or actions, trying to escape from police officers involved in criminal activities, or simply because they were the wrong skin color, wrong ethnicity or cultural heritage.

Some Cops use thier badge to form into likeminded memberships with other cops and judges that engage in all sorts of civilian exploitation and/ or extortion schemes to personally enrich themselves.

Some cops will pull a man's wife over for illegitimate reasons and suggest favors in lieu of the 'ticket'...

All told, the person responsible for making the above quoted comment obviously has thier head shoved up somewhere cozy and rather dark, if in fact they cannot accept that everything I've stated is documented fact... and that some police orders ARE the cartels...

Those LEOs fitting the descriptions I've outlined in this post are most likely the ones getting dusted - because if you want to be a G you have to play it like a G, with every dog getting its day.

That means if you wanna gangbang like it's your hood, be carefull not to roll the hood overtly, 'cos you'll be handed your ass on a wooden platter when ya look the otha way...

Cops aren't gangangers??? yeah, right. most arent, but a few are. I know, I've watched it go down, all over large sums of money... the first time they raided my wife's cousin's outcall service, locked all doors, held them at gunpoint while others put torches to the three large safes in the back. They failed to get into the safes (American Lock and Key baby!...), made threats, produced a fake warrant, as well as tried postulating that thier search was over and nothing was found, 'Please accept our sincere appologies'.

Her cousin, Richard Gagliano of Las Vegas (may he rest in peace), sued and won 2 million dollars... with no crimial pursuit of any of the cops involved after the civil suit was won. If it were you or me the State would have AUTOMATICALLY picked up the case and filed criminal charges agaist us.

There aren't cops that are gang affiliates! truly, I must be a liar...

The second event was a shad bit more individualized and personal... where a narcotics detective in an unmarked car casually aproached an individual whom I've known since highschool and who was involved in narcotics trafficking and basically informed them that he knew who and what they were, and that it would all go away if he just handed over the money. No, not the cash in his pocket, the cash stored in his house... $20,000.00

He made it clear that he wasn't interested in what drugs were in his possession or his residence. "just hand over the cash and this will all go away."

His choice of making an income was his to choose, legal or not. What that cop did however, while touting a badge to back his play, is outright conspiracy, and a violation of the oath he swore to as a peace officer.

That's Gangsta...

Wanna be a G? Expect to be treated like a G...

I don`t think you can say all these Police shootings were actually targeting the Police that got shot. Wrong place wrong time and not prepared perhaps.
With the way this economy is falling and people out of work and going hungry I can bet there will be more crime and these criminals are going to be going more towards the all or nothing way.

The 3 cops shot at the house from the attic was cops not thinking ahead. You are talking arresting a guy with possible prison time. The one at Walmart was a guy more then likely planning a armed robbery and the cops confronted him. Were there drugs involved? Who knows if or why the guy shot them.

Now the only ones actually targeted was at the police station. Again why? Was there a reason behind it?
I just don`t think that the police are being targeted like they think. But now that they do mention it I imagine putting the idea in peoples heads isn`t the brightest thing they could be doing. Just like the school shooting it never ends with one because it is spread on the news and I believe that gives others the stupid idea.

I really pray for these Police officers just having a boring day at work but their line of work does rub shoulders with the nastiest people out there. But I am on their side and always will be as long as they follow the rules/laws and realize we have rights as do they.
I`ve always treated them with respect and have always received it back for doing so.

reply to post by iSHRED

I NEVER SAID TO GO SHOOT COPS

Oh no, you made it perfectly clear in your OP, FOX News uses questions like that to give legitimacy to otherwise insane ideas too.

Just because you make something a question doesn't mean you aren't advocating it.

I remember a poster several years ago in the UFO Forums that would always hide his HOAX threads by stating everything as a question.

Hiding your advocation for killing cops by phrasing it as a question and using a transparent disclaimer doesn't cut it.

reply to post by Connman


So what about all the good hearted cops (i know there are plenty of them) who enforces unjust laws, i know they are just doing what they are told, but does that make it ok???

if people just sit passively while the government and legal system take more and more of our rights, then nothing will change... it will all continally get worse while we sit there like the sheeple we talk about in this online gathering.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by iSHRED

 

Only the tiny, tiny number of violent anti-government and authority crowd would be sick enough to join in with this kind of behavior and thankfully most of them either grow up or go to prison quite young.

edit on 1/28/2011 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)

By grow up, what do you mean.
It seems like you mean,
grow up equals: not caring, letting rights fade away, let injustice power over what is right....

so basically your saying "...thankfully most of them either conform or go to prison quite young."