Conspiracy of the Century...Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same!

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WickettheRabbit

 

Look no one know exactly what Jesus said, and being as men in those days were mostly illiterate, only the Jewish Priests know how to read and write. Nothing was written about him until 70 years after he "died." (Read that spirited off by the Jewish underground) The Roman Piso Family authored the New Testament, This was written about the year 75 CE.

Um, if he died around 30AD, then 70 years later would be 100AD, not 75AD.

Experience has shown that theories posted on websites like Tripod tend to be utter garbage, as your "Piso" conspiracy seems to be. If that's the basis of all your thinking, you might want to rethink things. Here's a rebuttal of the nonsense on that page, I'd suggest reading it and considering his points.

On the "Roman Piso" Theory

Here's a sample bit of "genius" from your speculator, on the subject "THE PROOF THAT JOSEPHUS WAS REALLY CALPURNIUS PISO":

At this point the following steps quickly occur:

1. One checks a Latin classical dictionary and finds the famous Calpurnius Piso family.

2. From a Latin dictionary, one also finds the source of the Piso name, as "pistor," meaning one who "ground," or a miller or baker. He then thinks of the many allusions to the baker and is caught up on the trail of bread crumbs.

3. He, thus, realizes that Josephus was a Calpurnius Piso.
Source

Amazing feat of scholarship there!

By the way, equating the works of God with Satan is declared by Christ to be the only unforgivable sin. Congratulations on committing it.

reply to post by daryllyn

The whole argument is based on the usage of the term "morning star"

I believe it is based on more than that. What is Jesus/Christianity based on? One book written by a Roman family. Christianity is what is flawed, all f it. From day one.
Enlighten yourself!
www.jesusneverexisted.com...

www.evilbible.com...

hubpages.com...

bibleandscience.com...

reply to post by adjensen


Read it again. I said "about," not "exactly. " You can nit pick all you wish. I love to argue. I came to the truth about the Bible and Christianity a very long time ago, and since then, research bolsters that to a very high degree. the only ones who actually believe in it as the "word of god" are those who haven't read and researched it. Most Christians just accept what the preacher and a few verses says, and that is enough for them. not for me. I am a born researcher, and that fact goes way beyond your understanding. I am never satisfied with face value of anything. If the Christian God himself appeared before me in person I would have a lot of questions. A Lot. I made a post in here on who the real God and Goddess is, look it up. I also made a post on who created that human receptacle you reside in.

reply to post by autowrench


thanks for the thread, its very interestin!!

i was all set to right a nice long reply detailing some of the stuff i'd found out. i planned on quoting a couple of paragraphs from it,,,, but cant find it! n i'm too tired,, so bollox

apparently in the new world dictionary O is the symbol for cipher, applying a cipher to lucifer, it becomes sophia..
(appologies i cant find the paragraphs, if you want to find out and have a real interesting read, this is the book i was trying to quote from- old world secrets the omega project codes, apparently some kid topped himself after reading it... it really is that good a read!)

also something worth looking into is what came first, the word christ or its association with jesus?

put it this way, i think the elites have got us putting our faith, belief and Energy in the wrong direction!!

also interestingly, the human body is made up of carbon 12, c12 = 6 electrons, 6 neutrons and 6 protons. 6 x 6 x 6 = 216, the amount of bones in the human body. the human body is made up of 66%(ish) water.... could we be that beast, at least our primitive ways of thinking, which all boils down to fears, egos and insecurities... could the angels in the bible have been the humans that had conquered their beast way of thinking and progressed to the next level of life???

it makes sense, we are the problem as much as we are the solution!

namaste

reply to post by autowrench


Okay.

So, if you are not a believer (which I am assuming you aren't since you are trying to pretty much debunk Christianity in general), why does any of it matter? Why are you so worried about debunking/finding flaws in something that you don't believe is real? If you are so convinced that the whole thing is a sham, why start a thread about it? If you are so sure, why devote the time?

Is there some sort of satisfaction to be gained by belittling/debunking someone else's faith?

I see threads like this one all the time and just don't understand the point.

Jesus is not Satan. Jesus is Lord of All. That is why a time will come when those of the morning star shall no longer disdain the Glory of God.

Incidently, dependent upon the time of year, the morning star is either Mercury or Venus

Mercury

en.wikipedia.org...

The earliest known recorded observations of Mercury are from the Mul.Apin tablets. These observations were most likely made by an Assyrian astronomer around the 14th century BC. The cuneiform name used to designate Mercury on the Mul.Apin tablets is transcribed as Udu.Idim.Guu4.Ud ("the jumping planet"). Babylonian records of Mercury date back to the 1st millennium BC. The Babylonians called the planet Nabu after the messenger to the gods in their mythology.

The ancient Greeks of Hesiod's time knew the planet as Στίλβων (Stilbon), meaning "the gleaming", and Ἑρμάων (Hermaon). Later Greeks called the planet Apollo when it was visible in the morning sky, and Hermes when visible in the evening. Around the 4th century BC, however, Greek astronomers came to understand that the two names referred to the same body. The Romans named the planet after the swift-footed Roman messenger god, Mercury (Latin Mercurius), which they equated with the Greek Hermes, because it moves across the sky faster than any other planet. The Roman-Egyptian astronomer Ptolemy wrote about the possibility of planetary transits across the face of the Sun in his work Planetary Hypotheses. He suggested that no transits had been observed either because planets such as Mercury were too small to see, or because the transits were too infrequent.

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

Mercury (pronounced /ˈmɜrkjʉri/, Latin: Mercurius listen (help·info)) was a messenger,[1] and a god of trade, the son of Maia Maiestas and Jupiter in Roman mythology. His name is related to the Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.), mercari (to trade), and merces (wages).[2] In his earliest forms, he appears to have been related to the Etruscan deity Turms, but most of his characteristics and mythology were borrowed from the analogous Greek deity, Hermes. Latin writers rewrote Hermes' myths and substituted his name with that of Mercury. However there are at least two myths that involve Mercury that are Roman in origin. In Virgil's Aeneid, Mercury reminds Aeneas of his mission to found the city of Rome. In Ovid's Fasti, Mercury is assigned to escort the nymph Larunda to the underworld.

en.wikipedia.org...

Astrologically, Mercury represents the principles of communication, mentality, thinking patterns, rationality and reasoning, and adaptability and variability. Mercury governs schooling and education; the immediate environment of neighbors, siblings and cousins; transport over short distances; messages and forms of communication such as post, email and telephone; newspapers, journalism and writing, information gathering skills, and physical dexterity. The 1st-century poet Manilius described Mercury as an inconstant, vivacious, and curious planet. In medicine, Mercury is associated with the nervous system, the brain, the respiratory system, the thyroid, and the sense organs. It is traditionally held to be essentially cold and dry, but variable in temperament, according to its placement in the zodiac and in any aspects to other planets.

In ancient China, Mercury was known as Chen Xing , the Hour Star. It was associated with the direction north and the phase of water in the Wu Xing. However, modern Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese cultures refer to the planet literally as the “water star”, based on the Five elements. Hindu mythology used the name Budha for Mercury, and this god was thought to preside over Wednesday. The god Odin (or Woden) of Germanic paganism was associated with the planet Mercury and Wednesday. The Maya may have represented Mercury as an owl (or possibly four owls; two for the morning aspect and two for the evening) that served as a messenger to the underworld.

In ancient Indian astronomy, the Surya Siddhanta, an Indian astronomical text of the 5th century, estimates the diameter of Mercury as 3,008 miles, an error of less than 1% from the currently accepted diameter of 3,032 miles. However, this estimate was based upon an inaccurate guess of the planet's angular diameter as 3.0 arcminutes.

www.answers.com...

(Symbol Hg) A silvery-white poisonous metallic element, liquid at room temperature and used in thermometers, barometers, vapor lamps, and batteries and in the preparation of chemical pesticides. Atomic number 80; atomic weight 200.59; melting point −38.87°C; boiling point 356.58°C; specific gravity 13.546 (at 20°C); valence 1, 2. Also called quicksilver.

Venus

en.wikipedia.org...

Venus is the second planet from the Sun, orbiting it every 224.7 Earth days. The planet is named after Venus, the Roman goddess of love and beauty. After the Moon, it is the brightest natural object in the night sky, reaching an apparent magnitude of −4.6, bright enough to cast shadows. Because Venus is an inferior planet from Earth, it never appears to venture far from the Sun: its elongation reaches a maximum of 47.8°. Venus reaches its maximum brightness shortly before sunrise or shortly after sunset, for which reason it has been known as the Morning Star or Evening Star.

The Venusian surface was a subject of speculation until some of its secrets were revealed by planetary science in the twentieth century. It was finally mapped in detail by Project Magellan in 1990–91. The ground shows evidence of extensive volcanism, and the sulfur in the atmosphere may indicate that there have been some recent eruptions. However, the absence of evidence of lava flow accompanying any of the visible caldera remains an enigma.

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

Venus' name might embody the function of honours and gifts to the divine when seeking their favours: such acts can be interpreted as the enticement, seduction or charm of gods by mortals. The ambivalence of this function is suggested in the etymological relationship of the root *venes- with Latin venenum (poison, venom), in the sense of "a charm, magic philtre".

nineplanets.org...

Venus (Greek: Aphrodite; Babylonian: Ishtar) is the goddess of love and beauty. The planet is so named probably because it is the brightest of the planets known to the ancients. (With a few exceptions, the surface features on Venus are named for female figures.)
Venus has been known since prehistoric times. It is the brightest object in the sky except for the Sun and the Moon. Like Mercury, it was popularly thought to be two separate bodies: Eosphorus as the morning star and Hesperus as the evening star, but the Greek astronomers knew better. (Venus's apparition as the morning star is also sometimes called Lucifer.)

So which, Venus or Mercury, could best describe the morning star referred to in the Bible?

Seeing dead people as a kid? That's a gift. Everyone's gifts are unique.

Not everyone has every gift. It all depends on how you use the gift.

Just because you had it then doesn't mean that you'll have it tomorrow.

People that claim that you are cursed or going to burn in hell... LOL Are they Baptists?

If you never ask God then you'll never know why you were given that gift will you?

read this article from 'www.the smirking chimp'.... then come back and defend your position

** warning there a bunch of sensitive language used in this authors expressing his viewpoints:


www.smirkingchimp.com...#

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by autowrench

 

Okay.

So, if you are not a believer (which I am assuming you aren't since you are trying to pretty much debunk Christianity in general), why does any of it matter?

please explain once for the slow people here, how this discussion would debunk Christianity in any way shape or form? It would only explain the mistranslation of the name Lucifer which has actually been explained in great detail in the OP's link and many other areas. Jesus Christ still walked the earth and died for our sins as far as I am concerned, the only thing is, somebody screwed up the translation when converting from Hebrew to English. To the best of my knowledge, that isn't a sin against God, just a mistake. What's your take on it?

Originally posted by autowrench
I am a born researcher, and that fact goes way beyond your understanding. I am never satisfied with face value of anything.

That's hilarious, thanks for sharing. A "born researcher", "never satisfied with the face value of anything", and yet I've seen you post this Piso nonsense for months, so you apparently believe it to be true. Without substantiation. Without apparently even reading his book. And without bothering to "research" the Abelard Reuchlin Foundation and its agenda, note that he has no sources, or see that none of his conclusions can possibly be true.

But because it collaborates something that you desperately want to be true, you accept it blindly at face value.

It's fiction, Autowrench. Poorly constructed, utterly fantastic, and absolutely ridiculous.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by autowrench

 

please explain once for the slow people here, how this discussion would debunk Christianity in any way shape or form? It would only explain the mistranslation of the name Lucifer which has actually been explained in great detail in the OP's link and many other areas. Jesus Christ still walked the earth and died for our sins as far as I am concerned, the only thing is, somebody screwed up the translation when converting from Hebrew to English. To the best of my knowledge, that isn't a sin against God, just a mistake. What's your take on it?

Maybe debunking is the wrong word. Generally on ATS, any Christianity themed thread is instantly attacked. I have to wonder why. What is the point? I might be just a wee bit annoyed by something I strongly believe in, being constantly attacked on here.

My take on it is that the term 'morning star' is not an exclusive term that is used to describe any one specific person/being.

Job 38 verse 7

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

That verse uses the term in a plural form, indicating that there is more than one "being" that can be referred to as such, rendering the entire argument of the OP pointless.

My post wasn't directed towards anyone specific, by the way. Just a general statement.

reply to post by St Udio


Your link says "page not found".

Can you fix it, please? I wanted to check it out.

reply to post by St Udio

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


I watched the Charlie Veitch and Stefan Molenux (? spell) exchange on cveitch yesterday and heard Stefan say something very related to your post.

Something like-

Evil must disguise itself in virtue, for when it is revealed as evil, it then perishes.

The whole concept of evil, in this concept, cannot stand in and of itself. Like John Carpenter's The Thing, evil needs to find some great robe of virtue to conceal its truth, because we flame it to cinders when we see it as evil.

...makes sense... if I were the leader of the dark forces, I certainly would try to market myself as the good guy- hell, just look at Halliburton ;-)

I think this whole thread goes to show that THIS is the reason people who believe in God or who believe in Jesus, should take the time to meditate, pray, and whatever else it is you feel like you need to do to develop a PERSONAL relationship with your deity of choice. Forget everything you've been told by HUMANS. What the hell do they know? Why believe what someone else has told you?

I personally am against the KJV because... well, just HOW many times has it been translated??? Who knows! God didn't write the Bible. People wrote the Bible.

As long as you believe what someone else is cramming down your throat, you're going to be condemning others to the fiery pits of hell because they don't believe what you believe, simply because that person is more than likely just believing something that he/she has been TOLD to believe for his or her whole life... same as you, even though what the other person believes may not be the same as what you've been told to believe.

I don't care what anyone says. The majority of the verses in the Bible can be taken many many different ways. I may see it one way and you may see it another, but who's to say that which one of us is right? God isn't going to come down and point you out and say "oh, we have a winner!" The rest of you all didn't interpret < insert random Bible verse here > correctly so all the rest of you are going to hell!

Religion is a crazy thing. And I found this out by being married to a preacher for 14 years. There is a reason why I'm not married to him now and why I no longer go to church.

Spirituality is a personal thing. Take the time to stop wracking your brain to figure out what some jumbled words in the Bible mean and take the time to be quiet and listen. God is meant to be experienced personally... not vicariously through other people.

I realize this is a bit off topic and I apologize to the OP for that. (Great post, btw!) I saw that this was turning into a religious debate... one humans word against another and so I thought I'd throw in my two pennies.

God is love. Not hate. He doesn't want us bickering with other people about who is right or wrong. If you don't believe in God, that's fine too, as long as you have rock solid reasons for believing the way you do and as long as you aren't an atheist because you've become so fed up with "Christians" that you just don't believe anymore. I was almost there myself, until I got the hell out of church!

I shall step down off the pulpit now, brothers and sisters. Carry on, but I hope this at least makes you think a little!

reply to post by WHOS READY


Greetings to you WHOS READY. first time I have replied you to, I believe? You asked the origin of Christ. The word is actually "Christos," and it means "anointed." Now you are going to ask, what is the anointing? What does it mean to be "anointed?" To the best of my knowledge, the origin of anointing was from a practice of ancient shepherds. Lice and other insects would often get into the wool of sheep, and when they got near the sheep's head, they could burrow into the sheep's ears and kill the sheep. So, ancient shepherds poured oil on the sheep's head. This made the wool slippery, making it impossible for insects to get near the sheep's ears because they would just slide off. From this, anointing became symbolic of blessing, protection, and empowerment. Now, while on this subject, how about the word, "Christian?" After doing about a few minutes researching this morning for the post, I found that the word is used to describe believers of Jesus. This has taught me a lesson, and the rest of us should learn this too, especially Christians. Always do your research. Never take somebody's word for it.The word was first used in Antioch. It is a Biblical term. Please remember that nothing in scripture says that a word has to be used in the Bible for us to use that word to describe concepts of the scripture.
The passages that use the word Christian are:
Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16

Hope this has truthfully answered your questions. Love and Light be with you on your quest for knowledge.

reply to post by daryllyn



I can confirm I am not a believer in Jesus or Christianity. My mission here is to teach, to enlighten the people as best I can. If that means tearing down the established ways, beliefs and avatars, so be it. I mean no harm to any soul. But, it is way past time the organized religions were shown to be what they really are, bastions established for control, money, and brainwashing of the people. The people do not need to be brainwashed, they need to awaken from their rather long sleep. The End of Days is fast upon us. Many are speaking of it, I myself have had visions of it, at least one version of it. It has been my experience that if enough people thing a thing will happen, it happens. Our very reality, if the control factors were wholly taken away, would be run on our thoughts alone. Did you know there are some 30 U.S. Patents for mind control devices? Does anyone here thing a company designs and patents a device, then shelves it and never puts it to use?
Organized religion is the same thing. Look at some of the atrocities of late by the Muslim World. They are an organized religion also. Religion should be a personal thing. You wear it like a coat. It fits you perfectly, but will not fit anyone else. Like I said, it is a life mission.

They have to be one in the same, for one cannot exist without the other. They are night and day, good and evil, light and darkness. The two things that keeps us all alive, winter and summer = growth and death. They both exist light and darkness, but mans fear of the darkness and death cause him to create superstitious agents too ward them of fear, and keen men are able manipulate the followers of the systems for they are integrated with beliefs from birth. So yes Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same!

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Seeing dead people as a kid? That's a gift. Everyone's gifts are unique.

Not everyone has every gift. It all depends on how you use the gift.

Just because you had it then doesn't mean that you'll have it tomorrow.

People that claim that you are cursed or going to burn in hell... LOL Are they Baptists?

If you never ask God then you'll never know why you were given that gift will you?

edit on 1·25·11 by DrMattMaddix because: (no reason given)

Friend, I simply cannot see it as a "gift." more like a curse. And 57 Earth years have passed since I came here this lifetime, I still have it strong, perhaps too strong. I have six men who served with me in a forgotten war that are still with me, they have saved my life two times now. And yes, some are in fact Baptists, but I have yet to meet any Christian that believes in past lives, or reincarnation, even though Early Christians taught it. I can remember some past lives too, at least certain events of same. that too is no picnic, I would not wish it on anyone. And lastly, the God and Goddess I know, and know well, live within me, like they live within everyone. Book religions always teach of a God "out there" someplace, that is so you will never figure out who you really are, and it works magnificently.

The God and Goddess, Father and Mother, and the Conspiracy to keep us from Knowing

Let's All Face It, We Are God/Goddess

reply to post by autowrench


It's nice that you brought this up, because it shakes up the comfort zones of false doctrine that many Christians sit in. The Lucifer passage is clearly about the King of Babylon, who we know from Babylonian history as well as Biblical testament had a god-complex. There is no double meaning in this passage, it is a taunt against the King of Babylon who thought himself to be the most high but is now dead and in Sheol (not Tartarus like the Fallen Angels) which makes him equal to every other man that died before him. The King of Tyre speech in Ezekiel on the other hand is clearly not referring to a human being, so the assumption that the King or Prince (principality) over Tyre is Satan is perfectly justified if a bit obfuscated.

I'm sorry that you grew up in an environment of Christian hypocrisy, but your mother wasn't too far off in calling you "anti-Christ". You are certainly exhibiting the spirit of "anti-Christ" by working contrary to him. I have warned you before of your careless intercourse with "spirits" and I beg you to put them to the test to see if they are from YHWH. I have my doubts, because obviously your fraternization with these spirits has lead you to the one unforgivable sin: attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil. The good news is that the unforgivable sin is unique in that you can't simply commit it like lying, it's a life-long commitment to work against the Holy Spirit and it isn't fully consumated until an unrepentant death or in the case of the apocalypse: taking the mark. You can still repent my friend.