God was behind Big Bang, pope says

reply to post by Vicky32


Refusing to use a condom and abstinence isn't the same...what takes more effort in your opinion?

So if you have 2 rules, and one is a complete b*&^% to follow, while the other is a slight inconvenience at worst, which of those 2 rules do would you follow in the long run?

I'd say the second one has a way better chance at making it. Telling people not to have sex is crazy as it is in our nature...especially if there's no other "fun" distractions around. Keep in mind they often have no TVs, no books, no Internet, and all the other stuff we have to keep us distracted. And hell, abstinence doesn't even work in the Western world...not even proponents for abstinence like Palin's family succeeded

reply to post by Vicky32


Access to condemns and education about safe sex and using contraceptives are almost non-existent in the areas of Africa where HIV and such are a problem. This non-existence is a result of religious institutions (the Catholic Church) having influence over governments and other people who could provide the contraceptives and sex education. Rather, they demonize the use of contraceptives.

Historically, abstinence-only education doesn't work, the largest examples being South America and Africa. It doesn't even work in the US.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Refusing to use a condom and abstinence isn't the same...what takes more effort in your opinion?

So if you have 2 rules, and one is a complete b*&^% to follow, while the other is a slight inconvenience at worst, which of those 2 rules do would you follow in the long run?

I'd say the second one has a way better chance at making it. Telling people not to have sex is crazy as it is in our nature...especially if there's no other "fun" distractions around. Keep in mind they often have no TVs, no books, no Internet, and all the other stuff we have to keep us distracted. And hell, abstinence doesn't even work in the Western world...not even proponents for abstinence like Palin's family succeeded

You're missing the point!
Which is, that the Pope cannot be responsible for Africans not using condoms, if the Pope cannot persuade them to be continent (not necessarily abstinent!).
If putting oneself in the way of getting infected is aagainst Catholicism and they do it anyway, then obviously they are not influenced by papal decrees. Therefore, why would they randomly decide to obey the papal decree against condoms! (Which no longer applies anyway in this context, a fact you're ignoring.) If they are not using condoms, it's because they don't want to use condoms (I believe many men don't want to because they reduce sensation or something). A papal decree just makes a jolly good (but to anyone with a skerrick of common sense) not remotely believable, excuse...
Vicky

Originally posted by PieKeeper
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Access to condemns and education about safe sex and using contraceptives are almost non-existent in the areas of Africa where HIV and such are a problem. This non-existence is a result of religious institutions (the Catholic Church) having influence over governments and other people who could provide the contraceptives and sex education. ...

Simply not true from what I have heard and continue to hear.
Vicky

reply to post by MrXYZ


Reminds me of a comedian (Andy Parsons) saying "How have we as a species come to the point were we are being told how to have sex by a man who doesn't have sex. How is being a homosexual unnatural, when surely the most unnatural thing in the world is not having sex."

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Reminds me of a comedian (Andy Parsons) saying "How have we as a species come to the point were we are being told how to have sex by a man who doesn't have sex. How is being a homosexual unnatural, when surely the most unnatural thing in the world is not having sex."

I disagree. For some people - many of them actually, not having sex is as natural as having it is to others! We are more than animals, therefore the urge/need to reproduce can be, and often is, subordinated to other considerations.
Vicky

reply to post by Vicky32

A group of people that practice this won't be around for much longer, so ultimately their purpose comes to an end

Originally posted by uva3021
reply to post by Vicky32

 

A group of people that practice this won't be around for much longer, so ultimately their purpose comes to an end

I am not talking about groups, I am talking about individuals!
Vicky

Sure Sure... God created the Big Bang, and Evolution, and the Laws of Physics!!!

Religion riding on the coat-tails of science is nothing more than pathetic.

The pope is trying to save a dying religion. This is the age of facts and science not fairytale story telling.

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by uva3021
reply to post by Vicky32

 

A group of people that practice this won't be around for much longer, so ultimately their purpose comes to an end

I am not talking about groups, I am talking about individuals!
Vicky

You're quite right Vicki.
There are great differences between what suits different people sexually.

Anyone, particularly a person living at one of the most extreme ends of the spectrum, eg. celibacy, who tries to lay down one law about sex for everyone is a fool.

I understand there are some people with a religious gene that makes them genetically inclined to follow a religious creed, and some of these creeds preach intolerance of those who live differently. However religious belief is still a choice, and anyone choosing to worship in such in offensively judgemental manner should be made aware there is a choice. You don't have to blindly follow the teachings of a religious authority just because you are cursed with such disabling inclinations.

These can be fought. You can get help from those who have already put this damaging lifestyle behind them. All it takes is lifelong self-control and a sincere wish to put these evil thoughts behind you.

In return for giving up the religion that is so dear and meaningful to you, you will gain the supportive acceptance of fellow free-thinkers who will gladly welcome you into the fold.

reply to post by Vicky32


The whole point of life is, we're born, we live, we reproduce ensuring our genes are passed on to the next generation and then we die. People who don't reproduce do not pass their genes on to the next generation and therefore are removed from the gene pool. Why do you say we are so much more than animals?

Well if the Pope said it, it must be true *sarcasm* ;-)

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Vicky32

I am not talking about groups, I am talking about individuals!
Vicky

You're quite right Vicky
There are great differences between what suits different people sexually.

Anyone, particularly a person living at one of the most extreme ends of the spectrum, eg. celibacy, who tries to lay down one law about sex for everyone is a fool.

I understand there are some people with a religious gene that makes them genetically inclined to follow a religious creed, and some of these creeds preach intolerance of those who live differently. However religious belief is still a choice, and anyone choosing to worship in such in offensively judgemental manner should be made aware there is a choice. You don't have to blindly follow the teachings of a religious authority just because you are cursed with such disabling inclinations.
In return for giving up the religion that is so dear and meaningful to you, you will gain the supportive acceptance of fellow free-thinkers who will gladly welcome you into the fold.


I find it difficult to see where you're being rather heavy-handedly sarcastic, and where you're being sincere... (Ihave a touch of Aspergers, so if it wasn't for the fact that you have been so heavy-handed, I wouldn't have recognised it at all.
Evidently Kailassa, you're a very angry man (or woman, that's always possible... ) - and that really is genetic - but there's no help for inappropriate rage, you just have to learn to curb it yourself.
Fact is, it's the 'free-thinkers', especially the gay ones, who are the rage-filled, intolerant ones, not the religious people, who with a few lamentable exceptions, are happy to live and let live.
Vicky

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Vicky32

 

The whole point of life is, we're born, we live, we reproduce ensuring our genes are passed on to the next generation and then we die. People who don't reproduce do not pass their genes on to the next generation and therefore are removed from the gene pool. Why do you say we are so much more than animals?

edit on 31/1/2011 by Griffo because: (no reason given)

I say that, because it's obvious to me! (It's my experience, isn't it yours?) I have a son who is infertile. His wife is also infertile, yet they married and have an active sex life (I don't enquire obviously, but my daughter-in-law is a great fan of giving me Too Much Information... )
By you, their lives are worthless, wasted. I couldn't agree less!
Their brothers will pass on my genes, and that's fine.
Being a divorced woman without a new husband, I am celibate. That's perfectly fine - if you do the maths you can see I am past my reproductive years anyway. I could have sex for Africa, as the idiom here is, but I choose not to.
That's the heart of the matter - because we're more than just animals, we get to choose!
Vicky

Originally posted by apodictic
The pope is trying to save a dying religion. This is the age of facts and science not fairytale story telling.

This.

It'll take time, but in 100 years most people will laugh at others claiming they believe in an invisible man they have no evidence even exists

reply to post by Vicky32

Not angry, just reaching out a hand in kindness.
But don't worry, I understand Aspies have a great deal of trouble in "reading" people.

Originally posted by Kailassa
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Not angry, just reaching out a hand in kindness.
But don't worry, I understand Aspies have a great deal of trouble in "reading" people.

Kindness? There was no kindness whatsoever in your nasty sneering post. (I have never heard of a 'gene' for religion before, and so I assumed you were laying down some heavy-handed sarcasm about my known insistence that there is no genetic basis for homosexuality.
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by Kailassa
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Not angry, just reaching out a hand in kindness.
But don't worry, I understand Aspies have a great deal of trouble in "reading" people.

Kindness? There was no kindness whatsoever in your nasty sneering post. (I have never heard of a 'gene' for religion before, and so I assumed you were laying down some heavy-handed sarcasm about my known insistence that there is no genetic basis for homosexuality.
Vicky

Oh, I see. You've been telling homosexuals they don't know what they're talking about when they explain they are born that way, so you got all defensive, assuming I was treating you as you had treated them. Thanks for explaining. It's no wonder you misinterpreted my post as nasty and sneering if you were suffering from a guilty conscience over your posts. I assure you I have no wish to bring up homosexuality here, because that would be quite off topic.

So just relax a bit and stop jumping off the deep end. The mistaken assumptions you are clutching will not help you float. Try listening and learning instead. Remember I was supporting you and starring you in another thread about rape? I'm not against you, I'm just telling you something. It's been proven there is a congenital aptitude towards religion. This has been thoroughly proven with twin studies, and a gene influencing this behaviour has been found.

You might be interested in reading a book about it: The God Gene

Here is an explanation for you of how this genetic predisposition toward following a religion evolved.
The Evolution of the God gene

This predisposition does nothing to influence which religion a person chooses, it just makes them more likely to follow the local prevailing belief, whether that be a pagan religion, black magic or one of the more prevalent sects.

Naturally people with this genetic inclination will find it harder to think for themselves, and be more likely to accept whatever their church leaders and sacred texts say, even denying science and logic if they are taught their religion demands this. Some people see they are enmeshed in a web of the lies and bigotry they've been taught, and have been helped by others to free themselves from illogical beliefs.

For those who can't, statements like the ones from the Pope assuring Catholics evolution and the big bang are not contradictory to Catholicism at all can be very important.

Originally posted by Kailassa

.... It's no wonder you misinterpreted my post as nasty and sneering if you were suffering from a guilty conscience over your posts.



You might be interested in reading a book about it: The God Gene

Here is an explanation for you of how this genetic predisposition toward following a religion evolved.
The Evolution of the God gene

This predisposition does nothing to influence which religion a person chooses, it just makes them more likely to follow the local prevailing belief, whether that be a pagan religion, black magic or one of the more prevalent sects.

Naturally people with this genetic inclination will find it harder to think for themselves, and be more likely to accept whatever their church leaders and sacred texts say, even denying science and logic if they are taught their religion demands this. Some people see they are enmeshed in a web of the lies and bigotry they've been taught, and have been helped by others to free themselves from illogical beliefs.

For those who can't, statements like the ones from the Pope assuring Catholics evolution and the big bang are not contradictory to Catholicism at all can be very important.

edit on 1/2/11 by Kailassa because: grammar

A bit of advice, Kailassa. If you want to get people to accept your point of view (and you must, otherwise why are you here?) a sneery, patronising and insulting tone virtually guarantees that you won't be listened to, you'll be avoided assiduously. Do you find that happening a lot?
To start with, why on earth should I have a bad conscience about my view that homosexuals are made not born? It happens to be correct. I understand why gay men (and lesbians to a lesser extent) want to believe, but more importantly want the rest of us to believe they're born that way. That way, they get to claim a huge advantage, victim status, alongside people who really are victims (actual or potential) such as black people in America and Australia, women in most of the world, people with disabilities, Jews in some places etc.
But the breathtaking cheek of it floors me.
One of many I could find if I had time
As does the cheek of your bitchy remarks about followers of religion. What would you make of someone who grew up in an atheist family, in the most secular developed country in the world (New Zealand), but is now a Christian? That's me...also my sister (recently) and my late brother. So much for following the local prevailing belief, or being unable to think for ourselves!
Yes, our parents became Christian also, 6 years apart from each other - in my father's case literally 5 minutes before he died. But we children had all grown up and moved out!
As for religious people denying science and logic - I call b.s. That afail is a habit restricted almost entirely to the USA, and to Protestants within the USA. Catholics are, and always have been a very different case even in the USA.
You're showing your ignorance/prejudice.
Vicky