reply to post by dontreally
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
So where's the allegory in the massive list of genealogies?
Those "names" are also Hebrew words, as any blbical scholar or reader of biblical Hebrew can attest to. It establishes more of a psycho-spiritual
chronology, than simply (though also does) a historical chronology.
Why are you putting "names" in quotes? I didn't say "names" at all. I was asking where the allegory is, and you're simply stating without
explanation or verification
that it's a 'psycho-spiritual chronology'
And yes, I'm aware that Hebrew names also happen to be words in Hebrew.
Where's the allegory in all of the laws on slavery?
Theres great meaning in this aswell. You would have to go through the breadth of Talmud, Midrash, and the innumerable rabbinic commentraries JUST to
get a hint at the meaning. But it is alluded to. Most clearly in kabbalistic writings like the Ari (Rabbi Isaac luria), Moshe Cordovero and other
Soooo...you're just going to go with special pleading again? You're stating all of this, but I'm actually asking where the allegory is. You can't
just give the bullet points? I mean, I regularly have to give the bullet points on philosophy of science and theories of biology, and those cover a
lot more than the Talmud, Midrash, and rabbinic comments simply by word count, let alone by data presented.
You can believe what you want. Youre only proving how obnoxiously arrogant you can be.
I'm not arrogant, I just happen to think that slavery is immoral and don't see how an immoral set of commands can be used to provide a positive
where an allegory is doesn't happen to be arrogant. I was curious where you found an allegory in all of that immorality.
Now, I'll give that a few of the books are clearly allegorical, but they're most definitively not all allegorical.
All of it is allegorical.
Evidence, you've not provided any for any of your statements.
Look up PaRDeS (pronounced similar to paradise). You would be in awe if you knew how profound the book of numbers is for instance. Suffice to say. The
entire Tanakh; From he 5 books of moses to the song of songs, is laden in allegory. This is especially obvious in some books; like Judges, Samuel,
etc, but is also entirely present in the book of kings... All the names and words conceal metaphysical meaning. Its a principle of Judaism.
Again, please demonstrate your claims. I'm not going to take them at face value simply because you've said it.
Which...you're not providing here. So...I'll have to tack your word for it?
Well. I dont have all day to compile sources for everything i say.
I'm not even asking for sources for everything, just a few things here and there. I'm not asking for the full citations either, just some sort of
external source or possibly an explanation using a passage from any Hebrew scripture.
Using the "I don't have all day" cop out isn't any more intellectually honest than your special pleading fallacy.
Your welcome to go to Wikipedia and read up on whatever it has to say on Nachmanides commentary on the Torah.
It's a poorly put together piece. It only has 5 references in quite a significant article. I didn't really get much out of it that I didn't already
learn in my Medieval Philosophy 101 class, where I found his ideas a bit silly.
I personally own it, and study it. He was truly a genius.
Ok, can you demonstrate that it has any value?
This is a man who even the James 1 of aragon had profound intellectual respect for; even despite his disagreeing with his conslusions. The domican
friars wanted him exiled from spain. The king refused to do so (though with later papal pressure, he was permanantly ousted from spain).
And James the first wasn't exactly the greatest scholar of his time. Granted, he was quite the sponsor of the arts and literature, but his main
contributions are vernacularization and prose.
lead into gold
Maybe he meant that in an entirely metaphorical way. In any case, the mystic (aka hermetic) axiom of "as above so below" could be relevant here. The
quantum physicist and Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan writes in his commentrary to Sefer Yetzirah that the physical can be transformed through mental means.
Anyone who understands quantum physics knows that you cannot transform the physical through mental means. And again, Newton didn't show any evidence
of it being metaphorical. You've yet to actually show how Newton gained anything from his study of Hebrew scriptures beyond wasting time that could
have gone towards revolutionizing our understanding of the universe even more.
No, it should say that some Jews don't know what science is. Please, explain to me how Kabbalah follows the scientific method or has produced any
useful knowledge for humanity.
I would refer you to Sefer Yetzriah, by Rabbi and US government employed Physcist Aryeh Kaplan. He can justify Kabbalahs scientific basis much better
than i could.
Soooo...appeal to authority and referring to a source rather than actually telling me that the Kabbalah follows the scientific method? And just
because you have applicable scientific credentials doesn't mean that all of your thoughts on science are correct.
Robert T. Bakker is one of the great paleontologists of history, but I disagree with his stances on religion.
But you can also read Adin Steinhalts (also a physicist) or, read Isaac Ginsburgh ( a mathematician)...
Oh goody, more arguments from authority. Or you could just demonstrate how the Kabbalah follows the scientific method. Science isn't about reality,
it's about examining
reality using methodology
In essence. Kabbalah supposes two realities. The mental, or spiritual, and the physical. The mental is seen as the blueprint or basis of the physical,
which is the crystalization of the former. This is also very similar to what Plato posits and what Eastern mystics posit..hence the universal axiom of
" as above, so below"....
Alright, what does any of this have to do with the scientific method? Where's the science? Where's the testing and methodology?
This is most definitely metaphysics
which is a (mostly useless) branch of philosophy
Cornelius Agrippa in his "philosophy of natural magick" explains that things of a similar nature are consonant with one another. Thus, the qualities
of any given thing are its spiritual side, while the physical appearance of it; its dimensions, color etc, are the physical manifestation of this.
Again, more metaphysics, which is philosophy rather than science. Where's the testing? Where's the verification? Where's the methodology? They're
basically just doing what all metaphysicians do, pulling things from their rectum that happen to be logically consistent with one another.
In anycase. Its such a vast subject Kabbalah and one needs to read Hebrew in order to truly appreciate the mystery of the language and thus the
significance of the Kabbalistic tradition.
Or you could just give me an example. You don't have to learn a whole language to understand a single linguistic point.