Some questions regarding the soul

Hi fellow ATS members

This is a subject that came up in chat last night and it has left me with some questions that I would like people to consider and give their opinion on, all the questions are regarding the soul.

Firstly my own opinion is that I am not sure that I even have a soul and that maybe life can be explained purely by biological / electro chemical processes, the existence or not of the soul however is not what I want to ask about.

So to those of you that believe you have a soul I would like to ask these questions.

1) Are you born with a soul? and if you are is it immutable and unchanging throughout your life or does it develop as you experience things, at what stage during conception is the soul born? Is it as soon as an egg is fertilized or later on?

2) Do all creatures alive have a soul, or only some of them? Which animals do you believe have them, does a Cat have a soul? How about a Flea? An Amoeba? Plants? Moss?

3) Where do you believe the soul resides?
If I cut off your arms and legs presumably you soul remains unchanged, but what if you are a live brain detached from your body in a jar, does the brain have a soul if it is still functioning?,what about if I cut the brain in half and was able to somehow keep the two parts functioning independently, which part of the brain would the soul remain in? What if I further divided it into quarters / eighths?

4) If it were possible for a person to be alive without a soul how would we be able to tell him / her from the other people that do have souls? What difference do you feel it would make?

I would like to try and keep the debate away from whether or not people believe the soul exists if possible and just try to concentrate on the questions

I am going to respond to your question through a Christian viewpoint.

The soul is different from the spirit, which is what I believe you are referring to.

The soul is in the blood and is the changing and learning flesh that comprises the body.

The Spirit is a higher self, which assimilates all knowledge and understanding.

Think of it like this: You are in a car, when the car crashes you get out of the car – always remembering the experiences you had while in the car.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
The soul is in the blood and is the changing and learning flesh that comprises the body.

Thank you for your reply!

So how does this fit in with question 3 in your opinion?

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


What part of the blood is the soul being as the blood is being constantly renewed?
In events of blood transfusions, are other people's souls being injected into your body?
Would having sickle cell anemia taint the soul?

Well, you pose an interesting question indeed.

Firstly, there is no biblical reference for this type of question – none that I know of anyway, so I will attempt to answer as best I can.

We exist in a three dimensional universe, which can move up, down, left and right – and can only be in one place at one time.

Perhaps the spirit exists in the fourth dimensional universe, or higher, which can be in several places at more than one moment.

My honest opinion is that the body is an instrument that translates information to our spirit – much like a computer relays information.

When a piece of the computer stops functioning properly, then it cannot communicate properly with the user – or more to say when the soul stops working correctly then it can’t communicate with the spirit correctly.

These are questions that cannot be answered with our current reasoning and understanding.

While I can appreciate the nature and implications your question poses, it is important to reason that it is a hypothetical situation, which we cannot prove nor disprove at the moment.

Are you seeking for affirmation that the spirit exists – the nature of spirit – trying to disprove the existence of spirit – what?

What part of the blood is the soul being as the blood is being constantly renewed?
In events of blood transfusions, are other people's souls being injected into your body?
Would having sickle cell anemia taint the soul?

Again, I can only answer questions based from my understanding of the Holy Bible.

Perhaps the body is a physical manifestation of our spiritual self – or more to the point, say our spirit was energy and it’s vibrations was lowered to the point of the physical, perhaps our body is what our spirit would look like? Just a thought.

In the event of a blood transfusion, I suppose yes it is possible that other peoples soul is being injected into our bodies.

It has been documented that after blood transfusions, certain people have developed traits of their blood donor. So, yes, I suppose it is possible.

As for the soul being tainted – the soul is physical and corruptible – so, again, yes, I suppose the soul could become tainted.

The spirit is our eternal part.

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


Thank you again!

As I said I'm just interested in getting as many views as I can on the subject as I am really not fully decided either way on it.I guess my questions do also contain implications that point towards certain answers, something which I should have tried harder to avoid.

Thank you for the well though out answers!

reply to post by davespanners


I think Kabbalah is most explicit about the nature of the soul. It is not simply 'the life principle' as Aristotle defined it. The soul has different levels, and so in this manner coheres with platos definition as well.

Kabbalah identifies 3 basic level of soul. Neshama, Ruach and Nefesh.

1) Are you born with a soul? and if you are is it immutable and unchanging throughout your life or does it develop as you experience things, at what stage during conception is the soul born? Is it as soon as an egg is fertilized or later on?

After 40 days, when brain activity can be registed is when the 'soul' officially enters the deveoping seed. This is quite amazing because the Talmud says at 40 days the soul enters and this has been substantiated by modern medicine. The soul is constantly changing in accord with our actions in this world; in thought, speech and physical action. There 4 basic stages in the growth of the soul. At Birth, all that enters is the Nefesh - the lifeforce. At sucking, the hild recieves a higher level called Ruach of nefesh where essentially the child begns to exhibit greater soul faculties - physical movement, speech, and the his basic instinctive behavioral traits. At around 5 or 6 the child takes on yet another level where he begins to respond intellectually to certain expected behaviors. He doesnt UNDERSTAND emotionally why he shouldnt do something, but he does respect his need to listen. This is Neshama of Nefesh. At 13 the child becomes a 'man' and by man its meant he becomes morally responsible for his actions; that is, at around this age- girls tend to reach it first (around 12) the average child begins to emotionally UNDERSTAND that certain actions are wrong, while others are good and right. This is the level of Ruach, where an emotional intelligence expands the consciousness of the self. At age 21 the soul recieves its Neshama (not all people recieve this level, it depends really on education, knowledge etc) wheree it becomes much more intellectually involved and able to probe deep abstract concepts.

Many people have trouble with abstract subjects and so that means they have a lower 'soul' in that they can tolerate the 'light' or information coming in from without. Nonetheless,all people are completely unique and a cherished and important creation of G-d. Every experience changes the soul but more importantly actions and their moral consequences have a greater bearing.

2) Do all creatures alive have a soul, or only some of them? Which animals do you believe have them, does a Cat have a soul? How about a Flea? An Amoeba? Plants? Moss?

All things have a soul. The rule is this. The more 'animated' the creation, the higher its soul. Thus, Man is the highest creation, followed by animals, vegetables and lastly, innanimate. Einstein already proved that matter = energy, and energy is the substance of the soul.

3) Where do you believe the soul resides? If I cut off your arms and legs presumably you soul remains unchanged, but what if you are a live brain detached from your body in a jar, does the brain have a soul if it is still functioning?,what about if I cut the brain in half and was able to somehow keep the two parts functioning independently, which part of the brain would the soul remain in? What if I further divided it into quarters / eighths?

The soul has 3 levels, and 2 'encompassing' levels. In basic psychological terms, the Neshama is the cognitive mind, the ruach the emotions, and the nefesh the behavioral or instinctual vitality. Above these are 2 encompassing levels. The Chaya - lifeforce, could probably be associated with the concept of the unconscious. It is the storehouse from which we derive our energy 'chaya'. This chaya is the connection between the self conscious self, - the neshama, and the Yechida - the singular essence. The singular essence is completely at one with the creator and constantly guiding and directing the destiny of the self. Anything done below affects this and the higher levels.

The soul thus is partially revealed - as our minds, and partially concealed, as our spiritual vitality and essence which we ultimately derive from.

4) If it were possible for a person to be alive without a soul how would we be able to tell him / her from the other people that do have souls? What difference do you feel it would make?

All people have souls. You simply cannot exist without a soul. Period.

reply to post by davespanners


To answer any of your questions, you need to define what the "soul" is.
I bet that if you define it, you will answer these questions yourself (including the one about soul's existence).

So how do you think, what is soul?

The soul is who you really are. The body is just a body. When you die, you still live on because of the soul. That is what life is about? Aliens have souls and since they're so advanced, they know what to do in physical life.

reply to post by davespanners


Any time.

Your individual soul is a manifestation of a great spirit. It is subject to change, damage, growth, repairs and great leaps in development. Your soul has been through many human experiences, it is certainly weather worn and tested.

There is much debate as to when the soul enters the body, my own personal truth for this is at the moment of conception the soul begins its journey of manifesting into the body, because there is no guarantee the baby will really survive the birthing process. From my own thoughts on the matter, the final plunge into the physical world from the realm of soul happens when we are coming through the birth canal and we join with our earthly body which we have agreed and planned on inhabiting.

Everything is a manifestation of the great spirit, but I believe that we as humans are only capable of being humanoids at this time and I also believe that dogs for instance, are dogs. they do not suddenly become human through the trials of being a single dog. There are theories that for a species to exist here through a manifestation of soul, there must be a sacred geometric field that surrounds the earth particularly and uniquely for that species. But then again...thats just another theory. I feel as if I have always lived as a human on this planet, many many times, but there is no proof and in my journeys I have asked why do we not remember?

The answer I've received is that we can barely remember something that happens 20 years ago, once we have died and are no longer restricted by time and space it is very possible that in a mere second of real time we are consciously experiencing the spirit world for what feels like 10,000 years - In one second.

How much of your old life would you really remember, consciously, after 10,000 years? Maybe the joy of laughing...the taste of fruit...the lovers embrace. You would remember your humanity, but not your individual experience, at least not to the degree that you do now. I think it is this way for all beings, plant, animal and human.

Where does the soul reside? All around you, probably expressed as a field of energy around the heart but may not be connected directly to the physical heart. Id be interested in seeing how people react with a plastic heart such as Dick Chey. Cyborg...Grrraaawwwll...

When the soul is completely gone, your body cannot function, if it the field that allows your physical matter to be energized by your chi/sou/prana however you label it. That electrical otherworldly energy passes from the otherworld through your soul into your body.

In the shamanic traditions we talk about soul loss and possessions. When we lose a piece of our soul through the fractures induced by trauma, it is possible for another wandering piece of soul from another person - to fill the gap we have created.

It is also possible that multiple pieces of lost soul, yes even yours and mine, are walking around in the ether and depending on the nature of these soul parts if they share a common trait such as Destruction Through Anger, they can form into their own conscious entity which lacks a physical body.

I believe personally, this is how most entities we view as demons - are created.

Love your soul - Its more precious then we know.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this subject matter; they are an interesting blend of new-age-philosophy, Hindu and Buddhist, etc. – a compilation of different viewpoints and beliefs.

You said that the body cannot live without the soul. Like all theories and thoughts on the nature of the spirit: I cannot disprove your ideas or prove them.

If you would entertain my ideas for a moment, I would like to present to you my thoughts.

I believe the body and soul are one and the same and should be expressed as body/soul.

I believe the spirit is separate from the body/soul and operates it like a puppet.

I believe from the moment of conception, our spirit is so perfectly intertwined with our body/soul that by the time we begin to think rationally we have forgotten that we are not our body/soul.

For example: Say you lived your entire life in your car. You may receive warning signals from your car (ie: pain), you may get mud on your vehicle (dirt on the body), you may get cracks, dents or other scars. If you lived your entire life in a car, so long in fact that you forgot you were separate from your car, would you then believe that you were a car?

I think that is how we as humans operate.

I think that we are so perfectly intertwined with our body/soul that we have forgotten we are truly spirit – I think that is the life lesson: to learn that we are more than body/soul and that we are divine.

This body is just a tool to operate in.

I also think that without our spirit, our body/soul would be perfectly fine on its own and would just be like a lower animal: monkey, gorilla, etc. I think our spirit is what gives our body/soul true intelligence.

In the bible, God is called : the Lord of Hosts…. What is a host?

A host is just one part of a symbiotic life form – our bodies/soul being the host and our spirits (us) being the symbiots.

I think this computer (body/soul) has been perfectly designed to harbor our spirits. Sometimes, like any computer, they become corrupt, broken or too damaged to continue.

Your thoughts?

reply to post by davespanners
Souls? What are they? Are they real or some metaphorical BS we use to express how we feel about ourselves and life in general? Old souls, new souls and all the rest of it.

What defines a good soul? Usually it's explained by the way a person conducts themselves and is judged by witnesses of their actions. Kind to old ladies? Generous to charity? Always a kind word? These things indicate a good soul.

A good soul is eternal and has some flight path through time whereby it passes through adversity and opportunity on the route to becoming something close to an ideal of perfection. Sounds attractive and worth the ride.

Then again, we can look at human biology. We can look at the processes and firing synapses within the few pounds of flesh we keep hidden in our skulls. A few knocks here or a stroke there and the soul isn't acting the same. Maybe it finds itself lying on its back in a hospital bed while another good soul shines a small torch in the eyes? Who knows and who's to say what a soul is and what importance the grey matter holds?

As far as we know, the activity of the brain dictates our behaviour. In the 50s it was a free-for-all when it came to experimenting on human patients. It was open season for electro-convulsive therapy and split-brain patients. Cutting the corpus collosum (the part of the brain that joins both hemispheres...a scart lead) and exposing the patient to porn would make one side of the face giggle and blush and leave the other unmoved. We all know people who've sustained brain damage and their personalities have changed. These studies go against the idea of a soul.

The same effects have been regrettably (matter of opinion) demonstrated in animals so perhaps they have equal claims to having a soul? Maybe the soul lives in our brains, our consciousness...the hot-seat of awareness?

Maybe it's an aspect of a malfunctioning brain, but I like to entertain the possibility that we have souls. Whereabouts in us the soul lives is anyone's guess. It could live in our imagination and that's fine by me. They could be connected in a 4-dimensional web that spans space and time and it doesn't matter at all. The possibility that souls are real is a positive concept in my opinion (yeah I said opinion). Back to the organic, brain cells side of the argument...most of me thinks souls are BS and a small part likes the idea and thinks it just might be true.

(the link in the signature shares some of these thoughts)

People are always interested in knowing where the soul might be located within the body.

If it is not something that is tangible, which apparently it isn't, then why would one think it has a specific location? If we can't see it when it exists the body, then why would we be able to locate it within?

I believe it was in the book '___' - The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman where he talks about the pineal gland and how after 40 days of conception (or something very close) that the pineal gland migrates from the top of the mouth to the center of the brain, correct me where I'm wrong if needed he who is informed.

Just adding another piece that correlates with older texts (I think it mentions in the Tibetan book of the dead something similar although in metaphorical terms, correct me if I'm wrong my memory is not the greatest )

Originally posted by Etherguide
reply to post by davespanners

 

To answer any of your questions, you need to define what the "soul" is.
I bet that if you define it, you will answer these questions yourself (including the one about soul's existence).

So how do you think, what is soul?

Ahh well that is where my problem lies and part of the reason that I asked the questions, to get a better understanding of how different people view it, as I said I am really not sure if I think a soul exists let alone being able to define what I think it might be!

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone!

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


I notice that christians often confuse the concept of spirit.

Assuming Christianity still wants anything to do with Judaism and the hebrew bible (since it bases itself on it) than the christian 'spirit' would have to be based on the biblical, kabbalistic meaning of spirit.

The word translated into English as spirit is the Hebrew word, Ruach. Ruach means spirit and at other times means 'wind'. As in Genesis "and the spirit -ruach - of G-d swept over the waters"....

Ruach means spirit, and a spirit is a level of soul that extends and relates itself with other realities. For instance, a wind moves other physical things. Likewise, a 'spirit' is an emotion (which i like to look at as Energy in motion) which causes a soul to 'move' on the inside, spiritually, or physically into action. So the spirit is an active, 'spiritual' life that causes movement. This is why in the divine name, YHWH, the Vav, is a simple stick. The meaning of which is an extension from the higher Heh to the lower Heh -> יהוה.

The Neshama conversely is the mind that is moved. And the Nefesh is the physical lifeforce in the body. The spirit is the link between body and soul. For instance, an emotion is "felt". But there is a difference in spirits. Some can be soley motivated by physical happenings ie; motivated by the body, and this would match the word 'feeling' whereas a true spiritual experience, which is an emotion, is generated either divinely or by the Neshama and this has a much more inspiring influence on the personality.

Though It is true that all these levels constitute one whole, and that the body itself serves to reveal these levels of the soul

I

Could anyone else attempt an answer to any of the question I posed? Like dontreally has done above

reply to post by davespanners


I gave you replies to all of your questions.

Both here www.abovetopsecret.com... and here www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is from the Jewish esoteric tradition.