Methane On Mars must Be Biologically Produced!

This is how we can tell whether volcanoes on Mars are Active! If they are inactive (which they are), the origin of Methane on Mars must be biological!

Refer to how we interpret an Io volcano to be active; antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov... Io and Active Vulcanism; www.lowell.edu... antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...
www.solarviews.com...

Geysers (although they can be related to vulcanism, are not always).
Gas Geysers on Comets;
dsc.discovery.com...
Volcanic Geysers on Triton!
antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...
WATER GEYSERS ON MARS!
www.lauralee.com...

Mars is volcanically inactive!
From; www.universetoday.com...
��Methane -- which can be created naturally by volcanic eruptions or produced by primitive life -- thus may be a missing piece of the puzzle to finding out if organic remnants might once have sustained a primordial Mars. The last period of active volcanism on Mars is well before the last 300 years that methane can survive in the martian atmosphere of today. University of Buffalo volcanologist, Tracy Gregg, told Astrobiology Magazine, "the youngest surficial activity discovered to date (and it's probably 1 million years old, which would be considered quite young, and possibly "active" on Mars) is in a region that contains no large volcanic structures of any kind." Mars' gigantic volcano Mons Olympus was active until 100 million years ago.��

From; www.geolsoc.org.uk...
��He concludes that the lava could have emerged from Olympus Mons less than 10 million years ago. "The realisation that there has been recent volcanic activity is slowly seeping into the scientific community," says John Bridges, an expert in Martian meteorites at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK. Wilson thinks the volcanoes are dormant rather than dead, and that they follow cyclical patterns of activity. The 10 volcanoes on Mars are so large that magma must flow into their chambers extremely quickly- any slower and the molten rock would solidify before the chamber was full. Given the rate that magma is produced within the planet, this could happen only once every 100 million years, Wilson says. He estimates that the Martian volcanoes' active periods last just 1 million years, meaning that they spend 99 per cent of their time dormant. That would explain why we have not seen any activity in the past few decades of observing the planet, he says.��

From;
66.102.7.104...:U-N7_sNnTBUJ:volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/planet_volcano/mars/Overview.html+Active+Martian+Volcanoes&hl=en&ie=UTF- 8
��Age Like the Moon, volcanism on Mars is very old. The mare-like plains on Mars are the same age as the lunar mare, roughly 3 to 3.5 billion years old. However, volcanism lasted much longer on Mars than on the Moon. It also seems to have changed over time. Volcanism in the highland paterae and mare-like plains on Mars stopped 3 billion years ago, but some of the smaller shields and cones erupted only 2 billion years ago. The giant shield volcanoes are even younger. These volcanoes formed between 1 and 2 billion years ago. The youngest lava flows on Olympus Mons are only 20 to 200 million years old. These flows are very small, however, and they probably represent the last gasp of martian volcanism. Thus, the odds of finding an active volcano on Mars today are very small.��


[edit on 8-7-2004 by John bull 1]

[edit on 8-7-2004 by Ixataar]

Except Geophysical analysis of the planet does not seem to support his theory. Doesn't mean there's nothing worth looking into.

However, there is no condition on Mars that would support life even for the last 100 million years, so the methane wouldn't be produced that way.

Hmmmm...methane aside, the cyclical volcanism theory does beg another interesting question.

Granted, if not from volcanoes, the methane must be coming from somewhere. Big implications there.

But, focusing on the volcanoes...say pressure builds up for massive eruptions--what kind of affects would this have on the martian climate? All manner of gases could be released, as well as pent-up water vapor. Could it be that many of the features we see on Mars (gullies, etc.) could be a result of periodic warm periods triggered by release of intense heat, gas, and water vapor from the volcanoes? Essentially, a 'short' (geologically speaking) greenhouse effect for a limited time? Heavy stuff...

Q,

Mars has "water ages" like the Earth has "ice ages"
Then all the goodies slowly trickle out into space,
and the cycle begins again.. Something like that?

interesting..

Yeah, that's kinda the concept. Sounds good in theory!

Makes you wonder why we did not drop one of those rovers near one of the odd growths seen on mars pictures taken by one of the satelites now circling mars snaping pictures. NASA is chicken heh. FInd the most boring flat landscape with rocks and land there! hehe

Methain huu yea that is true but theres another gas on mars that MUST be a product of life and It canot come from volcanios or any other natrial prosses we know of .It call OXAGEN . thats right the stuff we breath WOULDNOT be here if not for plant LIFE. Oxagen combines with just about everthing .Ironoxside alumianoxside water and about a hundred other things obsurd the oxagen from the air if not for plants within a few thousand years there would be no oxagen in our air.
Mars has free oxagen and is VERY high in iron giving it its RED RUST (ironoxside) look. so the oxagen must be renewed SOME HOW and is still being renewed alest within the last thousand years or there would be no OXAGEN in Mars AIR. And like i said the only know way for oxagen to be created out side of the lab is with Plant life even if its only alge.

Originally posted by Simcity4Rushour
thats right the stuff we breath WOULDNOT be here if not for plant LIFE.

Not quite true. Oxygen is an element, and plants aren't nuclear energy factories. They can only combine and use what already exists. The oxygen here on Earth originally came from stars, and oxygen is a fairly common element in the universe.

In fact, we see oxygen on other planets:
www.nasa.gov...

Mars has free oxagen and is VERY high in iron giving it its RED RUST (ironoxside) look. so the oxagen must be renewed SOME HOW and is still being renewed alest within the last thousand years or there would be no OXAGEN in Mars AIR. And like i said the only know way for oxagen to be created out side of the lab is with Plant life even if its only alge.

Plants merely extract oxygen that is already present. If you put plants in a pure argon atmosphere, they wouldn't release any oxygen (in fact, they'd die because of lack of oxygen... which they also need.)

Oxygen isn't being created or renewed here on Earth.

The bad science in this thread makes me want to crap right now, in public (I'm in the library). Just plop a turd on the carpet.

Seriously, don't you people even bother to READ what you right?

Mars is a dead world, and has been for at least 3 billion years.

Nothing can survive on it, it is the MOON with enough atmosphere to suspend dust that is fuking smaller than LIGHT WAVES you dumb arses.

Very few particles are even a few milli-meters big.

God...you seriously think ANYTHING can live on a planet like that, then you must believe there is life on the Moon...that's more practical (using your logic) considering it came from the Earth!

Freemason,

Why does it make you so angry that people believe it's possible?
What about under the soils of Mars?
It's highly unlikely, but it's not IMpossible.



...cleaning up after Freemason.....



Space out

STUFF YOU RETARDED MONKEYS (That means FreeMason)!

Read this, then SHUT UP!

Precursors To CH4 Life (The Methane Detection Scandal)

First, a VERY INTERESTING POLICY THAT I FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFFICIAL NASA POLICY ON �HOW TO DETECT LIFE ON MARS�! (AS of 31 January 2001);

From;
www.ibiblio.org...
�If any methane is detected, there�s a very good chance life exists on Mars�
�The British Beagle 2 lander is set to touch down on Mars in 2003, and its primary aim, like the Viking landers, is to look for life. This time, the Beagle 2 has been armed with an entirely new set of tests for life.
One relatively easy way to tell whether life has existed on Mars in the past is looking for the remains of micro-organisms. These remains will be composed of organic material that is composed of carbon compounds. However, carbon compounds can be produced by other methods than biochemical reactions (which is one of the reasons why scientists dispute the fact that ALH 84001 showed there was life on Mars). Fortunately, by looking at the different isotopes of carbon that make up the carbon compounds, you can tell whether they were produced by life, since organisms use the �lighter� carbon-12 preferentially over the �heavy� carbon-13.
By burning carbon compounds that are taken from rocks on the surface and examining the carbon dioxide that is produced, scientists will be able to determine the isotopic composition of the carbon, and so discover whether life existed (this will be carried out by an incinerator and a mass spectrometer).
The one experiment that will attract the greatest attention from the public is the search for methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane is solely produced by biological processes, and is quickly destroyed by light. Therefore, if any methane at all is found in the atmosphere, we can be almost certain that life exists on Mars right now. The equipment used to perform this experiment has already proven its worth in helping us understand the process of global warming, and perhaps it will make similarly ground-breaking discoveries on Mars.�

Now,
Viking 2 Lander DETECTED CH4 in �Labeled Release� Experiment!
From;
news.bbc.co.uk...
�Biology experiments detected strange signs of activity in the Martian soil - akin to microbes giving off gas.�

From;
www.msss.com...
�The LR experiment moistened a 0.5-cc sample of soil with 1 cc of a nutrient consisting of distilled water and organic compounds. The organic compounds had been labeled with radioactive carbon-14. After moistening, the sample would be allowed to incubate for at least 10 days, and any microorganisms would hopefully consume the nutrient and give off gases containing the carbon-14, which would then be detected. (Terrestrial organisms would give off CO2, carbon monoxide (CO), or methane (CH4).)�
The Results of the �LR�;

From;
mars.caltech.edu...
�The gas exchange experiment did not use radioactive-labeled nutrients; instead it used ordinary nutrients and tested for the creation of oxygen or methane, which would be expected if plant-like organisms were present. Finally, the gas chromatograph heated the soil and tested for the emission of organic vapors.
The results were mixed. While the pyrolitic release, labeled release, and gas exchange experiments tested positive, the gas chromatograph found no organic material.�
Beagle, joins the �Club�;

From an article in July 2001;
www.space.com...
�Outfitted with the most sophisticated analysis system built to date, "Beagle 2 far exceeds what Viking was doing," Gibson said. Among its abilities, equipment on the lander can spot the presence of methane. Detecting methane would point to what amount to a Martian organism's "exhalations," a product of metabolism, he said.
"Beagle 2 has the potential of answering the life on Mars question," Gibson said.
Finding that methane signature would also shore up the notion that Mars may harbor a subsurface biota, Gibson said.�

And, from;
www.connected.telegraph.co.uk.../connected/2004/03/31/ecnmars30.xml
�Beagle 2 was designed to sniff out traces of methane on the surface, and look for other evidence of life. The gas was detected by Beagle 2's mothership, Europe's Mars Express spacecraft and by telescopes on Earth at concentrations of around 10 or 11 parts per billion. On Earth, methane released by bacteria in the ground or in animals is found in the atmosphere at concentrations of 1.7 parts per million.�

Methane, as I said (all along), is the �Holy Grail� of Life Detection on MARS.
NASA agrees with me, for once!

Can you understand this Science, you piece of #?



[edit on 12-7-2004 by Ixataar]

Uhh excuse me Ixataar, the only site I'd really trust that you presented, is Cal Tech, and they were talking about HUMAN INTVERVENTION, not natural processes on Mars.

You have read some websites and is Moses come down the mountain!

Thanks for calling me a "piece of #".

I find it funny considering that this is my career field, and your "hobby".

I don't see why the Methane couldn't be produced by processes OTHER than Volcanoes or biological things. Just because we only know of two ways it's created doesn't mean that there can't be other things. Also... why is it necessary for a creature to have oxygen? Don't you think in this vast universe, that there are some "species" that breathe argon, neon, nitrogen, helium or something? and that Oxygen is poisenous to them as some gases are to us? I don't really have an opinion on the Methane on Mars, but I'm tired of people saying stuff that is quite possibly NOT true. Us Humans do NOT know everything, therefore you must always leave your mind open to every possobility.

DarkHelmet, easy answer I think would be "Uniformitarianism".

Same conditions will produce the same results.

We assume (but have much empirical evidence) that Mars was formed under very similar conditions of that of the Earth.

Thus when looking at early geologic history, we look at like-situations.

What you are proposing is that Mars was not formed under similar conditions.

In fact what you are proposing is more like saying that Mars was formed as the core of some star, released by a Supernova and caught by our Sun's gravitational pull.

The same goes for your points about life.

People say "well how would we know alien life when we found it, couldn't it be silicon based or such?"

So far we only osberve life having formed on Earth, no where else, so it is only more logical to assume that life must be like Earth life, and not some crazy rock-thing that is composed of Galena. It is all because of the principle of Uniformitarianism. Proposed by Dr. James Hutton (1798?).

Oh and DarkHelmet, there are life forms where oxygen is poisonous, and especially in the past before oxygen became as abundant as it is now.

In fact, ideally, carbon-dioxide and nitrogen are better gases. A large part of DNA-decay and cancer is caused by "free radicals" which is a result of oxygen. Oxygen is corrosive and basically a poison. It is ironic that we should be able to live in it relatively well (I say relatively because living well would mean a life span as long as a bristle cone pine, which some are older than human civilization.)

I think of "Alien" when I think of oxygen and life, in that movie, the aliens were very acidic, we are able to tollerate a very poisonous, reactive and oxydizing agent.

Us Humans do NOT know everything, therefore you must always leave your mind open to every possobility.

Sure, but again uniformitarianism.

So one explaination is God "farted" on Mars and put the methane on there that way, doesn't make it true.

Empirical evidence does not suggest there is biologically created methane anywhere on Mars.

In fact what you are proposing is more like saying that Mars was formed as the core of some star, released by a Supernova and caught by our Sun's gravitational pull.

If you were talking to me... I said nothing of the sort. I do believe Mars formed much the same way as Earth. I was not referring to Mars specifically in my statement. I was talking about the whole Universe in General. If the Universe is "infinite" wouldn't there be at least 1 species that breaths helium, 1 species that breathes neon, and so on? And even if it's not infinite, there is a highly probable chance that life has formed in ither galaxies that do not require Oxygen to survive.

And I was talking about your ideas of "how do we know what to look for on Mars" that was implied by your discussion.

Originally posted by FreeMason
So one explaination is God "farted" on Mars and put the methane on there that way, doesn't make it true.

No... but it doesn't make it false either... though I'm sure that example is an acception.

Freemason;
If this is your career field, I suggest you look for a new job.

Originally posted by Ixataar
Freemason;
If this is your career field, I suggest you look for a new job.

Wow, is this an attempt on your part to defend the statement of your thread? That methane on Mars must be produced by organics. And that your recent post was "proof of that" (which I pointed out how it had nothing to do with this thread).