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Pentagon - No camera footage = No plane. A reasonable assumption.

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posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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oh it happened...

I was living at in an apartment building just down the corner of S.Courthouse Rd and Columbia Pike, the morning it happened a family member and I rushed down to the site only about a mile away...

We were there before and as the fire departments were arriving, we made it as far as a rental car outlet which used to be a gas station just before and underpass that led to the lawn at the pentagon.

One sure thing no one is mentioning here is the overwhelming smell of Aviation Fuel strong enough to make your eyes water...

If anyone had been to a drag race they would know exactly what I am talking about, unfortunately for the folks not local or even on the other side of the Ocean they will never know.

I lived in Shawnee Apartments then, it was a horrible day !


edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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and then there's

Charles Burlingame

77's pilot, the same pilot that participated in drills that simulated this exact thing happening, at the exact same place (MASCAL).

even IF 77 did hit the building, and the laws of physics dictated that million-to-one freakily synchronistic events and never-before-witnessed-in-the-annals-of-aviation-accident-history phenomena really did happen, Charles Burlingame's involvement in both the drills and the crash is just way too convenient for me. Just like John P O'Neill story and the WTC, it's something straight out of a very bad and predictable crime novel



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by JohhnyBGood[/i

How about we go with your belief that there was only a 12 ft hole - the evidence that it was 90ft+ has been around for ten yrs www.911review.com...


Is this the 90ft hole you keep bringing up?

Maybe we can see it better from a distance?


From where the aforementioned wing impact damage is pointed out in the first photo, clearly shows that the wings were from a 757 and mounted on top of the plane.
Wait? What?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


What does a missile smell like? Would you even know?

We were all in a state of shock that morning. And no one is saying this was a figment of ones imagination. Nor are we saying this wasn't a destructive incident.

But we were TOLD what everything was. Even if you STOOD there (like many were) no 20 people are saying the same thing.

They (MSM) filled our heads with 'terrorists, binLaden, Hijackers, planes, missiles, bombs, 5 planes, no-plane, demolition, small plane, passenger plane etc" so no offense, you being there doesn't change the end result.


Where's the other CCTV tapes please?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


I actually saw the live coverage as soon as they broke on it on TV. I remember seeing it being broadcast live and that was the image they were showing right after the crash. They showed it for like half an hour while the fire dept was applying light water to it. I watched the remainder of the collapse also. I was stuck to the TV all that day, starting with only the 1st tower being struck. I remember seeing it live and asking where the commercial airline debris is. That day they were saying that federal agents confiscated ALL known video footage. And it still doesn't explain how a 9' hole happened in the C ring.

edit to add:
Oh, and I did check out the photo. Now, if one does the geometry of the scientific data, the impact does not match up. On a 757, the engines hang below the wings and are about 10' in diameter and are located about 20' left and right of center of the nosecone. The nosecone would have impacted on the 2nd floor, unless the engines were seperated from the wings before impact, but then the engines would have been in readily identifiable pieces outside the walls, but the photos of the debris showed no engines (the size of a large dumpster) on both sides of the hole, as well as large pieces of wing on both sided of the impact area.
edit on 26-12-2010 by OuttaTime because: added



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


most all of the photos seen were taken well after the clean-up as everyone was pushed back to a very large perimeter beyond Joyce st and at the gate to Arlington Cemetery there... even the news media could not get close as there were warnings of a biological agent could have been used. The initial people on the scene were in white full body chemical suits as if made for CDC guys in the labs.

this is an account of how I and my cousin witnessed it.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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Maybe a little OT, but here is indication that a jet flying into a hardened wall can have little debris left after impact. Yes an old video, but one should take notice, because you know the body of a Boeing 757 is the lower half of the fuselage. A comparatively small cross section of the craft.



She said it 'atomized' on impact, and turned to dust! Vanished! 500mph, vanished to dust!
edit on 26-12-2010 by Illustronic because: (no reason given)


I can't seem to embed this, it's at;

www.youtube.com...

And many other places. Google' F4 crash test'.
edit on 26-12-2010 by Illustronic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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in other words even though we were right there seemingly within 20min after it happened, I still could not see anything at all except for the smoke, but we both could smell it... I know that smell very well.

I have no idea what size plane it was or much else except that smell.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by Human_Alien
 


most all of the photos seen were taken well after the clean-up as everyone was pushed back to a very large perimeter beyond Joyce st and at the gate to Arlington Cemetery there... even the news media could not get close as there were warnings of a biological agent could have been used. The initial people on the scene were in white full body chemical suits as if made for CDC guys in the labs.

this is an account of how I and my cousin witnessed it.


I was referring to the people going on with their lives, listening to the events unfolding, prior to this object slamming into the Pentagon.

The witnesses (as it happened) could not all agree on what they saw.
A few said it was a commuter plane.
Others, a white plane.
While some said, a 757 American Airline (they actually were able to read the slogan).

Days later:

Some said it approached from the north.
Others, over the highway
Others, to the south

Some said it came from the airport
Others said it approached from the west.

Some said it hit the poles (which in itself, defies physics but, one argument at a time)
Others said it was on the other side of the poles.

The taxi (whose window as smashed out) was on top of the bridge
Then it was under the bridge.

It's one huge flustercuck of confusion!

And THIS is probably why there are no other videos available.
This documentary is very eye-opening and not biased at all. It's witness accounts.




An hour and 21 minutes will probably change your mind about the Pentagon.
I implore you to watch this with a bucket of popcorn.


edit on 26-12-2010 by Human_Alien because: added second video



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by OuttaTime
 


Yes that 90 foot hole. Except the images you provide are cropped to show only tiny sections of that 90 foot hole.

The first image shows the hole in the second floor where the tail section went through. The white stuff at the bottom is the fire suppressant foam or water or whatever being poured into the 90 foot hole in the first floor. The image is a blowup from a much larger photo that shows the entire crash scene, but the ground floor damage is hidden by the foam.

Original photo not cropped, not enlarged.

There is another photo taken by the same camera from the same location just a few minutes later when the fire suppression has been turned off that shows the entire 90 foot hole.



This discussion of the "hole in the small hole in the Pentagon theory", built by a skeptic who does not buy the 'official story', but never-the-less dismisses the disingenuous photo alteration and misinterpretation as only serving (in his words) "to make 911 skeptics look like conniving liars".

There is further analysis of the same series of photos here.

The second one appears to show the damage from the left wing tip, and is cropped at the right just before the hole caused by the left engine is visible. The following photo is not the same image as yours, but appears to be the same scene.



In short these photos have been doctored to show only what you want them to show so that you can refuse to acknowledge the truth.
edit on 26/12/2010 by rnaa because: (no reason given)

edit on 26/12/2010 by rnaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


I am open to any truths that may be presented about this topic in the future, though I am not a 911 conspiracist I remain open to anything presented about it. I wanted to add only my nose-witness account of what happened. I really have nothing more to offer to this thread except what I have already said. And I am being honest, everyone from all walks of life were very scared that day, everyone was looking at each other kind of funny even into the next day. We were waiting for something to happen.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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The truth of what happened at the Pentagon is within range of detective efforts that would be applied to any other crime. Craig Ranke and the CIT team have proven that. There are other avenues to explore. These would have been explored already in virtually any other crime scenario. The fact that they haven't been explored is a tip off to who perpetrated this crime. Who controls the investigative arm of the criminal justice system? Who could restrain it and limit the scope of it's activities?

This is the overarching paradigm of the 9/11 story. The perps have been in charge of the investigation. After the horses ran out of the barn on 9/11, the investigation of the crime was basically sealed in the name of "national security". Whose national security?

9/11 is the most scandalous event ever to happen in the history of the United States. Americans, please do not fool yourselves. Your enemies still hate you, but a much worse thing has happened. Your friends think you are nuts. Nobody trusts you anymore. You're like wacky Uncle Freddy, who gets drunk and beats up his wife and tries to blame it on the neighbors and kicks the neighbor's dog and vandalizes the neighborhood and strikes fear into everyone and still demands to be smiled at and treated with respect. We smile and defer, Uncle Freddy. We smile and defer.
edit on 26-12-2010 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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but I do have one question...

why does everyone in all these youtube videos now a days sound exactly like the guy who made the Zeitgeist videos ? it that some sound editing software or is everyone taking on that persona to make their point seem more real or official ?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11
edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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For whatever it is worth, I have heard stories on both sides either not meshing or meshing with all official accounts, I lived in Arlington when this happened and can remember all of the large scale staging and drill preparations before the attack that were clearly being staged and prepared there, and worked downtown DC, I had the unfortunate memory of passing by the Pentagon while it was burning, watching the thick black smoke and smelling the odor on one of the most unforgettable days of my life as I frantically attempted to get out of the city.

Well one day around 3 weeks or so ago I was in an outdoor tactical store buying a new winter coat, also this store happened to sell some other things also related to guns, while I was there I was asking someone about the gun ranges that were closest, at that moment I there was a guy in a Marine Corp jacket who started rattling off all kinds of locations in the DC, VA and MD area to shoot, he also told me he had been in the military before as a sniper and was once a high ranking federal law enforcement captain during the 911 attacks and most surprisingly he also told me that he was one of the first responders actually I think the 2nd one, to go into the hole in the side of the Pentagon because he was at the helipad when it happened and told me he yelled incoming when he saw the plane coming in, he said that he was preparing for the return of the president later on and was coordinating with the Air Force.

When he mentioned it I really did not want to ask too much of him but he then told me that he had received the medal of valor and then he went on to show me his picture from then in full uniform, wow this guy really changed in his overall appearance as far as aging but clearly it was him in the picture he showed me that was on his phone, he actually received an injury that caused him to be rendered permanently disabled while rescuing another responder but he assured me that when he got inside he told me there was an intact fuselage inside with people strapped in their seats that were clearly deceased he told me about some other details also but when i heard a story like this from someone who actively took part it really makes me wonder, because trust me there are many things about that day that still do not quite make sense to me at least and especially in the case of the Pentagon, I also had the some people at least 2 tell me they saw a plane that followed a path directly down Columbia Pike about a week or so afterwards but i argued with them saying that was not what the media was saying as the path but you can check out the CIT videos for the hispanic mechanic and the police they seem to corroborate that plane's prescence and exact path also, you can find that in some of my other posts but even with my conspiracy minded approach I also have a good former Army buddy of mine that was working in Manhattan at Price Water-house and he is from NY, he actually told me that he saw with his own eyes both planes hit the towers so with stories like this from people I know or met it really makes me very confused about the whole thing and the official stories, i do find it odd that they will not just go ahead and release all footage, from the Pentagon, the hotels and anywhere else that may have clearly shown what happened way beyond the surveillance camera video...



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by rnaa
 


The nosecone would have hit the 2nd floor, while the tail section would have been up near the 3rd floor (the tail section tip is about 45' from the ground). For the tail section to go through the 2nd floor, the plane would have to be on its belly (meaning the engines were gone and there would be tandem impact trenches in the yard for atleast 200' before the impact). But how would a tail section be able to cut through concrete, I beams and rebar 2 feet thick? The areas in the photo where the wings are said to have impacted is what happens when the I beam header is jolted. The brick facia cracks away. The darkened areas of proposed impact can also be followed up the beams where the brick has fallen away. In the 2nd photo you provide, if the plane hit near beam 9 or 10, then the engine would have destroyed the wall and broke the windows located near beam 7, yet the photo shows no wing debris or the engine(s), but there is a car there (which would have been struck by the plane (pushing it into the building)). But if the plane were actually low enough to remove a 90' section of the 1st floor, then the fence and the car in front of the building would both be gone from that photo.
I watched the whole thing on TV, and it showed the hole expanding and eventually collapsing. Sorry, but I don't see how the damage can be correlated to a giant airliner. A smaller plane perhaps, but definately not a 757.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Human_Alien
 


Would you seriously want Pentagon information to be publicly assessable? Can you Google who's in the KGB?



Kegb members are found easily now as the KGB disbanded years ago, I can even get FSB names for ya!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by OuttaTime
 


Those photos with the guys in suits picking up debris, does any one know how long after impact that occurred? If a plane hit the Pentagon and did damage like that....would that debris not be pretty hot?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Illustronic
Maybe a little OT, but here is indication that a jet flying into a hardened wall can have little debris left after impact. Yes an old video, but one should take notice, because you know the body of a Boeing 757 is the lower half of the fuselage. A comparatively small cross section of the craft.

This video comes up from time to time in reference to the Pentagon crash.



We are told that the jet aircraft used in this test "atomized into dust" upon impact, except for it's wingtips, but we are not shown the aftermath of the impact to verify this.

Of couse, aircraft debris did not atomize into dust at the Pentagon. There are photos of people walking around picking up alleged pieces of it. Was it a different sort of crash?

Undoubtedly it was. For one thing it is probable that the aircraft was moving much slower than the 500 mph. reached by the test aircraft. Numerous authoritative sources say that a Boeing airliner of the type alleged to have crashed at the Pentagon, cannot attain 500 mph. in low level flight.

The airliner alleged to have crashed at the Pentagon also did not strike the Pentagon wall at an angle of 90 degrees, as did the test aircraft. There should be substantial amounts of airplane debris to the left of the alleged impact hole. The fuselage should have broken apart upon impact with the rest of the plane being smeared along the wall of the Pentagon.

Of course there is no such debris, because, no airliner crashed at the Pentagon.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Tsubaki
 


From what I remember, it was less than 20 minutes. Some of the guys in the pic were on site when it happened. They're the security there.

Oh, forgot to comment on the debris part. If it was away from the impact area, it had plenty of time to cool down to handle, and some of the debris would have been ejected from the impact from the explosion.
edit on 26-12-2010 by OuttaTime because: (no reason given)




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