Entheogens and Spirituality: safe or not??

Originally posted by indigothefish
your original post has you describing your own personal use of illegal drugs, that is against rules and regulations here, so why is your post still up? and yet my experience, although legal at the time, when posted on ats is taken off?

All references to personal use should be avoided here or a mod is liable to come in any lock the whole thread or even worse, just delete the whole thread. They probably haven't done anything yet because the thread started off without such references, but I'm sure there's some thread in the moderator forum about this thread already, or some of the mods have made mention of it already. You should all avoid references to personal use. It'd be nice if they just came in and moderated individual posts but that doesn't always happen, and we lose the whole thread.

reply to post by strawberry91

The Problem with Entheogens is that there is no intelligence
in them. Spirituality is about Real Intelligence though few know what that is. The drugs are just amplifiers. If you already have the
spiritual intelligence than you can have a very good trip. Otherwise you might have a negative trip. Therefore the best thing to do is gain spiritual intelligence. The only source for spiritual intelligence.

The alternative to drugs is the Transmission of Spiritual Force or
Shaktipat(Kundalini Energy) by a Siddha Guru. These Gurus are usually very expensive and very hard to find so you are back to the first subject of drugs.

The question of safety has to do with the individuals brain chemistry. People with serious mental health issues usually
are at risk with taking some of these drugs. The anecdotal
evidence is these drugs help somewhat with spiritual matters
but in themselves do not produce the permanent Nirvana that
nothing else produces either. Enjoy!

Originally posted by RRokkyy
reply to post by strawberry91

 

The Problem with Entheogens is that there is no intelligence
in them.

I strongly disagree. I believe there are things found within cultures... colors, patterns, certain known figures like Shiva, that come in visually through the intake of some of these Entheogens. For example, I have read of folks who have seen Shiva after trying XXX and they were not even thinking about it her. They were also able to see these ancient writings and codes. Need i remind you that the DNA structure was discovered on '___'? Also, if you didn't know this already... human history is encrypted inside of all of our DNA. There are certain things, which are put under the sun which might actually help man come to an understanding of life.

Personally, i believe Religion itself was inspired by the intake of Entheogens. I also believe that yes, Enthogens are NOT for everyone. I think there are certain people walking amongst us who have the ability to use these natural 'magical' substances for things like... multidimensional traveling, spiritual healing, levitation, and many more wonderful things. Remember, back in the ancient days, it was common for folks to use Entheogens. Not everyone used them but then again that's why there were Shamans or experts in villages. The towns people would come to Shamans for spiritual guidance.

DNA strand discovered on '___' = Intelligence.
Self-Realization = Intelligence.
Finding GOD outside of Organized Religion and biblical books through Entheogens = Intelligence

This is from a website called Cracked.com EXCUSE THE FOUL LANGUAGE...
Its entitled "Moses Takes 'Shrooms, *&@*# Out Ten Commandments"
cracked.com

Entheogens = End of Capitalism.

I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


this has nothing to do with the thread's intended subject, it's all about how ats is selective in what they let people post.

think about it: i can't post about my own medical use, yet strawberry91 can post about his illegal activity about it?

there was a thread a while ago about a member who claimed to have a valid medical marijuana license and in the thread he said that his local dispensary had been shut down or seized by the feds somehow, i forget the details but the thread was all about the ignorance of a majority of our country leading up to him not being able to obtain the safe and natural medication that worked for him,

but because he mentioned his own use of marijuana his thread was stopped before even page one.

now that would have been a great thread! i have nothing against talking about the spirituality and whatnot of certain natural drugs and whatnot, it's just not fair how ats chooses to delete some very valid posts like that one, and also the many many posts that i have given to elaborate things with my own medical background from the subject, and yet this post stays

maybe i should spell it out: there is a conspiracy here.

you know what i'm being off topic here, i'm sorry and i'm not trying to derail this valuable discussion about entheogens and spirituality, maybe i should make my own thread about this?

I just thought i would add this point:

If it wasn't for these wonderful plants, a lot of great music would never have been written!!!

reply to post by indigothefish


Obviously this thread has really irked you.

My bad, as I stated in my OP I wasn't sure if I would even be allowed to discuss this. I think the reason this thread hasn't been closed has a lot to do with the subject matter to be perfectly honest. I understand where your arguement is coming from, but what I'm dicussing is a little different than someone getting their medical marijuana shop closed. I did describe personal use yes, but I only did because it ties in to what I was trying to explain. I don't see how the guy describing his experiences fits in with the thread about his shop getting closed.

if you want to report this thread I understand. I'm just saying I'm sure the majority of the mods know what an entheogen is and I'm sure they looked at my thread already.

You know what i find really sad...? We keep going on about how it is a blessing that this beautiful thread has yet to be closed. Folks, lets try to add some more information here and buzz off the obvious. We get it. Anyhow here is some more information on Entheogens and the many found all across nature. If this is something that we cannot talk about here on ATS then shoot... What is the purpose of an AboveTopSecret website when the subject at hand is one that has been kept in the dark about humanity for as long as humanity has... i don't even know.

This is a section from Wikipedia!

An entheogen ("God inside us,"[4] en εν- "in, within," theo θεος- "god, divine," -gen γενος "creates, generates"), in the strict sense, is a psychoactive substance used in a religious, psychotherapeutic, recreational, shamanic, or spiritual context. Historically, entheogens were mostly derived from plant sources and have been used in a variety of traditional religious contexts. With the advent of organic chemistry, there now exist many synthetic substances with similar psychoactive properties, many derived from these plants. Entheogens can supplement many diverse practices for healing, transcendence, and revelation, including: meditation, psychonautics, art projects, and psychedelic therapy.

Entheogens have been used in a ritualized context for thousands of years; their religious significance is well established in anthropological and modern evidences. Examples of traditional entheogens include: kykeon, ambrosia, iboga, soma, peyote, bufotenine, and ayahuasca. Other traditional entheogens include cannabis, ethanol, ergine, psilocybe mushrooms, and opium. Many pure active compounds with psychoactive properties have been isolated from organisms and chemically synthesized, including '___', mescaline, psilocin/psilocybin, '___', salvinorin A and ibogaine.[5] Entheogens may be compounded through the work of a shaman or apothecary in a tea, admixture, or potion like ayahuasca or bhang.

More broadly, the term entheogen is used to refer to any psychoactive substances when used for their religious or spiritual effects, whether or not in a formal religious or traditional structure. This terminology is often chosen to contrast with recreational use of the same substances. Spiritual effects of psychedelic compounds have been demonstrated scientifically, as seen in the Marsh Chapel Experiment.[6] Research is limited due to drug prohibition, however entheogenic plants sometimes have separate legislation from their active ingredients.

Wikipedia's Information on Entheogens

Below is a list of Entheogens...

'___'
Salvinorin A
Mescaline
Psilocybin
Muscimol
Ibogaine
Bufotenin
5-MeO-'___'
Tetrahydrocannabinol
Ergot alkaloids
Kavalactones
Scopolamine

List of Entheogens from Wikipedia

One of the many things that troubles me the most is folks who have a negative out look on things they have never themselves experienced and aimlessly ruin it for everyone else. Lets face it folks, Alcohol is legal to balance out the population. If you leave people to only experience a low quality drug and oppress them to weak times when they might glorify them as quality times then you have a business. Lets look at the statistics;

According to www.alcohol-addiction-info.com...

According to the research literature, alcohol is linked with an estimated 5,000 deaths in people under age 21 each year--more than all the illegal drugs combined.

Now, if that is not low quality, then by all means like the doc says;
"I want to live on this planet anymore".
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by indigothefish
you know what i'm being off topic here, i'm sorry and i'm not trying to derail this valuable discussion about entheogens and spirituality, maybe i should make my own thread about this?

Yes, please, because you would get more attention drawn to your concern if you did. As it stands you are just drawing attention to inappropriate posts in a very interesting thread in which most posts are appropriate, and so you are only drawing attention what will get this thread locked or deleted too. ATS moderators will moderate any post that talks about personal use, once it draws so much attention. And like I said above, they have a tendency to lock entire threads to cut it out rather than just moderating individual posts. Make your own thread if you feel like complaining about their policy but ATS is a company and not a public venue, as much as I agree with your sentiments.

Etymology

The neologism entheogen was coined in 1979 by a group of ethnobotanists and scholars of mythology (Carl A. P. Ruck, Jeremy Bigwood, Danny Staples, Richard Evans Schultes, Jonathan Ott and R. Gordon Wasson). The literal meaning of the word is "that which causes God to be within an individual". The translation "creating the divine within" is sometimes given, but entheogen implies neither that something is created nor that that which is experienced is within the user.

The term is derived from two words of ancient Greek, ἔνθεος (entheos) and γενέσθαι (genesthai). The adjective entheos translates to English as "full of the god, inspired, possessed," and is the root of the English word "enthusiasm." The Greeks used it as a term of praise for poets and other artists. Genesthai means "to come into being." Thus, an entheogen is a substance that causes one to become inspired or to experience feelings of inspiration, often in a religious or "spiritual" manner.

Since the experience originates from an external source, the "divine within" can be illustrated as an absorption or collection of divine, rather than a creation that originates within the person. In other words, an entheogen is something that fills someone with god. Given the broad scope of this statement, it can be argued that the word should be inclusive of substances, objects, and/or experiences beyond psychoactives.

Entheogen was coined as a replacement for the terms hallucinogen and psychedelic. Hallucinogen was popularized by Aldous Huxley's experiences with mescaline, which were published as The Doors of Perception in 1954. Psychedelic, on the other hand, is a Greek neologism for "mind manifest", and was coined by psychiatrist Humphry Osmond; Aldous Huxley was a volunteer in experiments Osmond was conducting on mescaline.

Ruck et al. argued that the term hallucinogen was inappropriate due to its etymological relationship to words relating to delirium and insanity. The term psychedelic was also seen as problematic, due to the similarity in sound to words pertaining to psychosis and also due to the fact that it had become irreversibly associated with various connotations of 1960s pop culture. In modern usage entheogen may be used synonymously with these terms, or it may be chosen to contrast with recreational use of the same substances. The meanings of the term entheogen were formally defined by Ruck et al.:

In a strict sense, only those vision-producing drugs that can be shown to have figured in shamanic or religious rites would be designated entheogens, but in a looser sense, the term could also be applied to other drugs, both natural and artificial, that induce alterations of consciousness similar to those documented for ritual ingestion of traditional entheogens.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by strawberry91


In our soceity, we are trained to have scientific minds, the television basically destroys our imagination. The chemicals that we have with food also reduce our ability to see through our imaginations. Due to this, there is less fear, irrationality, superstitions, and in general people are desensitized to the more chaotic aspect of thier minds. It is an "advancement" however, it has reached a stage where we have become "detached" from our more "dynamic" aspects. When we take such drugs, they serve to temporarily open our minds to thoughts and perceptions that we once used to have. In the old days, before all the chemical and electronic suppression, most of all people had very dynamic imaginations, voices in the head, felt excessive fear and excessive emotions, however, if anyone sees through those eyes in todays world, they are branded as "schitzophrenic" or "dellusional" or some other "personality disorder" - to reflect how controlled and supressed we are, and to highlight the "darkside" that these suppressions are designed to inhibit.

I have gone through a similar experience, and as a result I have managed to stay "myself" and "off the grid" - the times that I was "given" (hidden in my food) behavioural inhibitors, I felt like my mind was being walled off, like I was being placed into a padded white room inside my own consciousness. However, when the effects wore off, I felt a sudden surge of darkness, that gave dynamic colours to my imagination, where my mind was free to wander again, where I felt reconnected to the deeper parts of my own psyche/subconscious/emotions.

I recommend to have non-flouridated water, watch as little television as possible - only really DVD's of your favorite shows and movies, and basically try to remove your thoughts from the "matrix" of this plastic, consumeristic, egotistical, shallow, "scientific", "thought controlled" soceity.

Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by strawberry91

 

I recommend to have non-flouridated water, watch as little television as possible - only really DVD's of your favorite shows and movies, and basically try to remove your thoughts from the "matrix" of this plastic, consumeristic, egotistical, shallow, "scientific", "thought controlled" soceity.

edit on 19-12-2010 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)

Great quote. I always give this example when talking about Entheogens... People come from all across the United States to visit the "Magic" in the Florida parks such as Disney's Magical Kingdom. You have little kids, you have grandparents all visiting for the same reason. To see something outside of their ordinary way of life. Imagine you could just experience the magic without having to pay one cent out of your own pocket. Imagine being able to legally experience "magic" in the comfort of your own location. I strongly believe humanity is being robbed out of their full potential. Oh my brothers and sisters, the weight of hatred would disappear off the face of Earth.... Folks would just understand the meaning of Love and its potential to destroy the evils of the world.

Again it wouldn't work, because Entheogens cannot coexist in a Capitalistic society and I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS.

Some get quite high and mighty (heh) when suggesting entheogens are inferior to "naturally" (pretty strange concept for an awakened to adhere to) reaching altered states. However I must say that many who meditate simply get off on the experience and colours, sounds, emotions etc... and totally miss out the realisations they are meant to come to....

Here is some great information on the chemical that already
exists inside of your brain called '___' or Dimethyltryptamine.

N,N-Dimethyltryptamine ('___') is a naturally occurring hallucinogenic compound of the tryptamine family. '___' is found not only in several plants,[3] but also in trace amounts in humans and other mammals, where it is originally derived from the essential amino acid tryptophan, and ultimately produced by the enzyme INMT during normal metabolism.[4] The natural function of its widespread presence remains undetermined. Structurally, '___' is analogous to the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-HT), the hormone melatonin, and other psychedelic tryptamines, such as 5-MeO-'___', bufotenin, and psilocin.

Many cultures, indigenous and modern, ingest '___' as a psychedelic drug, in either extracted or synthesized forms.[5] When '___' is inhaled, depending on the dose, its subjective effects can range from short-lived milder psychedelic states to powerful immersive experiences, which include a total loss of connection to conventional reality, which may be so extreme that it becomes ineffable.[6] '___' is also the primary psychoactive in ayahuasca, an Amazonian Amerindian brew employed for divinatory and healing purposes. Pharmacologically, ayahuasca combines '___' with an MAOI, an enzyme inhibitor that allows '___' to be orally active.[7]

Below is a link to the brand new documentary film called entitled The Spirit Molecule.
This is the 2010 version.



Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Enjoy it, its very informative! I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS!

The reality is, our brain produces it's own pharmacology of natural trypamines such as '___' and serotonin that affect the 5-HT receptor (serotonin receptors) and naturally release such agents as needed. During sleep and dreaming which is of big interest for me, there is no question a certain amount of hallucination comes with natural neural chemistry at play.

Hypnogogia which is a geometric pre-sleep pattern that can emerge from sleep is also something that certain drugs produce '___', Mescaline, Psilocybin showing a link between hard drugs and "soft" drugs that the brain releases naturally. Why I say "soft" is because the moment you want to wake up, or shift away from these naturally occurring experiences, the brain can flush the chemicals instantly into normal perception unlike "hard" drugs where you are locked in until the effects wear off.

Spiritual experiences derived from lucid dreaming or out-of-body experiences certainly use the Entheogens the brain to produce a very vivid and real feeling experience, but in a way that is safe, natural and totally controllable. The effects are "soft" not hard and the brain can turn it off within seconds.

Personally, you have all the natural entheogens in your brain being released during sleep that all you should do is learn to lucid dream to enjoy spiritual adventures and growth without risking your health with any hard drug to potentially cause out-of-control experiences which in my opinion are not spiritual at all.

You have the tools already, use them through meditation and lucid dreaming techniques. Save money and no one can arrest you for doing your own natural neuro-chemistry.

I wish that I could speak more thoroughly, but I certainly believe entheogens can bring about positive spiritual experiences--no questions. I should also add that they can lead someone down the wrong path as well.

Entheogens allow us to perceive and process information that isnt consciously observable to most of us. Its a tool, but we are capable of this without them. (We create our own '___') Projecting thoughts/concepts are a much better method of communication. Remember, do your own research, be sure you are in absolute control of your decisions. From my own research (And still studying) Entheogens can be very useful for understanding ourselves and the universe.

i think ethogens are incredibal!
thay can induce OBE my friens soul joined whith mine it was incredibal beyond words mystical we got a peek into whats really real haha

nothing better than triping face at an awsome party dancing your but off all night then to enter a real drum circle 20 or so bongos all playing as one.... intense and fun all at the same time haha i could giggle all night thinking about the fun nights in the mountain

This might be something interesting to read up on...
Visible spectrum

The visible spectrum is the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that is visible to (can be detected by) the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation in this range of wavelengths is called visible light or simply light. A typical human eye will respond to wavelengths from about 390 to 750 nm.[1] In terms of frequency, this corresponds to a band in the vicinity of 400–790 THz. A light-adapted eye generally has its maximum sensitivity at around 555 nm (540 THz), in the green region of the optical spectrum (see: luminosity function). The spectrum does not, however, contain all the colors that the human eyes and brain can distinguish. Unsaturated colors such as pink, or purple variations such as magenta, are absent, for example, because they can only be made by a mix of multiple wavelengths.

Visible wavelengths also pass through the "optical window", the region of the electromagnetic spectrum that passes largely unattenuated through the Earth's atmosphere. Clean air scatters blue light more than wavelengths toward the red, which is why the mid-day sky appears blue. The human eye's response is defined by subjective testing, but atmospheric windows are defined by physical measurement.

The "visible window" is so called because it overlaps the human visible response spectrum. The near infrared (NIR) windows lie just out of the human response window, and the Medium Wavelength IR (MWIR) and Long Wavelength or Far Infrared (LWIR or FIR) are far beyond the human response region.

Many species can see frequencies which fall outside the "visible spectrum". Bees and many other insects can see light in the ultraviolet, which helps them find nectar in flowers. Plant species that depend on insect pollination may owe reproductive success to their appearance in ultraviolet light, rather than how colorful they appear to humans. Birds too can see into the ultraviolet (300–400 nm), and some have sex-dependent markings on their plumage, which are only visible in the ultraviolet range.[2][3]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by KatieVA

our purpose on this planet is to experience. All experiences, be they good or bad

I love reading this in your post because I also feel this way and I think that this is a profound perspective. The purpose of life is to experience, good or bad. Even bad experiences are better than having experienced nothing at all. Good and evil are two different sides of the same coin.

reply to post by drkid

Personally, i believe Religion itself was inspired by the intake of Entheogens.

If this is true then that would make Entheogens very dangerous. Maybe the concept of religion, which is generally a good thing, came about through Entheogens and the attempt at control through the material world is what lead to its corruption. It is from this that I think the corruption of religion is the bane of our understanding of the Universe and God.
By the way I love the analogy of Moses on shrooms. Gives a whole new meaning to why most of the Israelites could not hang with Moses and experience God with him. I think I now understand what they may have felt.

reply to post by dontreally

life is about an extention of oneself outward, with other beings.

Enlightenment is experiencing within, not without.

If this is true then that would make Entheogens very dangerous. Maybe the concept of religion, which is generally a good thing, came about through Entheogens and the attempt at control through the material world is what lead to its corruption. It is from this that I think the corruption of religion is the bane of our understanding of the Universe and God.
By the way I love the analogy of Moses on shrooms. Gives a whole new meaning to why most of the Israelites could not hang with Moses and experience God with him. I think I now understand what they may have felt.

Perhaps the stories written in the actual books were inspired by Entheogens. I keep on stating that every religion is a personal interpretation of the genesis of God. Too many religions in the world to go around and I am damn sure each individual one was made by a single mind that gained popularity through others beliefs and so on. The dangers lie in power trip organized religion which is man trying to oppress man by commitment and fear to something which man has yet to experience for him or herself.

See, when folks decide to follow a religion (Christianity for example, seeing as it is the most popular ::cough cough:: thanks to the inquisition ::cough cough:, name me one thing that the person can put into practice? Sure... he can go to church, spread the word about his god, commit sins yet walk into a building and "feel" forgiveness when its convenient to him, no? Yes, he can go to church on a Sunday and be a good boy or girl for 6 days out of the week, yet limit himself, not being fully aware, thanks to the fear mongering being programmed into his psyche by preachers who have also been programmed by generations before him. Its a cycle, nothing more to it. Does anyone not question why in a single city, there our many different types of churches? Its all for control. There is nothing to offer but a place where folks can come to gather and unknowingly get robbed from a true experience. Sure, you can use the excuse of... "Oh yeah, but you know, you don't really need the drugs to experience the magic or intellect." I beg to differ and i am pretty sure Terence Mckenna would highly differ as well if he were still alive with us today.

To my own personal understanding, and the understanding of many individuals, including shamans, ancient teachers of the practices, philosophers, who for the majority continue to wage war against crimes towards humanity believe Entheogens are instruments for meditation.

Personally the ideal church in my world would consist of... SHAMANISM! =D
Folks would go to a building or a church once a week if they wanted to and practice a combination of spirituality and entheogens, which can actually achieve a hell of a lot more than reading texts, misinterpreting them, doing what you want, and making yourself look like a hypocrite in your minds mirror. You can only lie to yourself, however... how will man know if man has not experienced what he can achieve with the power of nature?

See... i find it disturbing that folks can value a carrot for its obvious properties to make your vision stronger. Celery for its obvious properties to make your bones stronger. A tomato for its obvious properties to make your heart stronger, yet completely dismiss a bunch of different natural fruits and plants that make the human psyche that much more awake and aware of all the endless BS others try to infringe upon them.

I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS.