Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

Armed civilians have more chance of being shot.

www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by JonoEnglish


srry you feel disrespected. I tried to emphasize but I guess you rejected it. no worries

I have been through two riots in CA (after the OJ trial and after the Rodney King beating) and even helped a friend defend his retail store during one (with a weapon). I happily missed the Watts riots. You don't wait until someone is upon you (if possible like I said in my previous post). You let them know the peril they are approaching.

Have you been through any civil unrest that you needed to protect or defend something yourself?

I think it naive to say (paraphrase) "I'm tougher because I bring a knife to a gunfight."

That wouldn't be toughness it would be stupidity. Again, I am not trying to disrespect you.

Originally posted by howmuch4another
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

srry you feel disrespected. I tried to emphasize but I guess you rejected it. no worries

I have been through two riots in CA (after the OJ trial and after the Rodney King beating) and even helped a friend defend his retail store during one (with a weapon). I happily missed the Watts riots. You don't wait until someone is upon you (if possible like I said in my previous post). You let them know the peril they are approaching.

Have you been through any civil unrest that you needed to protect or defend something yourself?

I think it naive to say (paraphrase) "I'm tougher because I bring a knife to a gunfight."

That wouldn't be toughness it would be stupidity. Again, I am not trying to disrespect you.

No worries Howmuch,

You were unlucky enough to be in that situation. However, things like that are rare. It's like me demanding a parachute on an aeroplane just because they crash.

What do you think about the information regarding the chances of being shot in the link I posted above?

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
Armed civilians have more chance of being shot.

www.newscientist.com...

I wonder how many of those armed civilians who were shot and killed were gang members, drug dealers or any number of other criminal affiliates rather than just armed civilians out for a stroll who were mugged.

This was a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia afterall. That means they only counted the number of victims who had guns on them and who didn't. No matter for where they lived nor what they did with their time.

Of abuse of statistics, there is no better example than this.


Regardless, we should all rather be victimized by criminals than be prepared to defend ourself against someone with a gun.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
Armed civilians have more chance of being shot.

www.newscientist.com...

I wonder how many of those armed civilians who were shot and killed were gang members, drug dealers or any number of other criminal affiliates rather than just armed civilians out for a stroll who were mugged.

This was a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia afterall. That means they only counted the number of victims who had guns on them and who didn't. No matter for where they lived nor what they did with their time.

Of abuse of statistics, there is no better example than this.

edit on 1/6/2011 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)

I like how you put in, "I wonder" when refering to the accuracy of those statistics then claim it TO BE an abuse.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish


I like how you put in, "I wonder" when refering to the accuracy of those statistics then claim it TO BE an abuse.

It is abuse; without the details of each shooting, each victim could in fact have been the original assailant, shot by a citizen legally defending him or herself.

Philadelphia is a hotbed of gun violence, much of it gang related. A couple of years ago it led the country in gun related deaths. The study in question is lacking greatly in scope and jumps to a massive conclusion.

Abuse.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


OK read it and its' interesting. It does not indicate important sampling of the data that eNum tried to point out.

1) It would be more useful and accurate to know how many of the armed victims were criminals or carrying illegally. Without this it is yellow journalism to make a political point.
2) Only 8% of all violent crimes in 2009 included the use of a gun. bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...
3) Philly is ranked the 15th most violent city (we have over 19,000 incorporated cities) in the US by Forbes this year. Hard to be accurate using statistics on that city.bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...

Originally posted by JonoEnglish


You were unlucky enough to be in that situation.things like that are rare. It's like me demanding a parachute on an aeroplane just because they crash.

Emphasis by me.
This is quite the point. Prepare for the day the SHTF as when it's here it is too late to go shopping.

reply to post by kevinunknown

For one-They're monitoring us now
Two-You're on it too
Three-It's a pretty well-known fact that conspiracy theorists are targeted because they are against TPTB & the NWO.
Four-No doubt ATS members will be imprisoned or assassinated in the event of a full on FEMA Police State.

Originally posted by Aquarist
reply to post by kevinunknown

 

For one-They're monitoring us now
Two-You're on it too
Three-It's a pretty well-known fact that conspiracy theorists are targeted because they are against TPTB & the NWO.
Four-No doubt ATS members will be imprisoned or assassinated in the event of a full on FEMA Police State.

Assassination means there is no defense.

If i go down, they will pull my body out of a pile of hot brass.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Assassination means there is no defense.

If i go down, they will pull my body out of a pile of hot brass.

Well I mean these unarmed "guys" are gonna get assassinated or get sent to FEMA camps without resistance.

I sure as hell am not gonna get herded anywhere. "They" trample on my rights and I'll put a 7.62x54mmR in "their" heads.

reply to post by Aquarist


And do you have any evidence of this

And none of that means your on a terror list.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
And do you have any evidence of this

And none of that means your on a terror list.

Wow, this is worse than I thought...
You think that we're NOT getting watched by the OIA and COINTELPRO? Are you serious?
You think that those SUVs without license plates outside your house are just Car Dealers' vehicles?
You think that we're just good ol' normal citizens to TPTB? No, we counter their thought, we are ready to stop fascism if it goes too far.
Never mind, you can't fight them because you don't have a gun. Disregard my statements, they're not worried about you...

reply to post by kevinunknown


People like you.

reply to post by Aquarist


And yet again no evidence, your government is not watch you, they don’t want to assassinate you, like the line under my name say’s “it’s all in your head”. With that in mind you really are probably dangers owning a gun, I could see a police officer coming to your door to ask if he can use your bog and you blasting him in the face with your shotgun because you thought he was trying to plant bugs in your house.

reply to post by kevinunknown




I'm with you 100 percent about the gun culture in America, I wouldn't live there due to this, although I do still think it's a great country in many respects. The problem is that you will not get through to them (our American friends) because they have been born into a gun culture and grew up in one, this means that guns to them is as normal as sliced bread is to us. That is why they do not understand our grim views of the gun culture, it's because they would have to experience life without guns from a young age in order to see how wrong it is.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


Yeah I totally agree with you on that, I have said many times in this thread i don’t expect all the Americans on this forum to drop their guns and I agree with you America is not all bad. I just wanted to start a debate and try to gain some understanding of why some of them are so fanatical about their right to own a gun, some members have helped with this but they are in the minority. Members talking about how they need guns for when their government starts rushing them all of to the FEMA camps however have just give me the impression that they are totally paranoid and possible a danger to their society.

Fortunately I am not part of that society.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
And yet again no evidence, your government is not watch you, they don’t want to assassinate you, like the line under my name say’s “it’s all in your head”.

For one-You probably don't know how bad it is because you're not here. Not saying that to be rude.
Two-MSM is in most people's heads. That's what's wrong with this country
Three-Have you heard of OIA?

reply to post by Aquarist


Trust me the MSN is not in my head, I think you are really fanatical about your mistrust in your government, having a suspicious eye is fine but I think your views are dangerous and paranoid to the extent you might shoot a law enforcement officer. I could be wrong, but based on your comments on this thread I think it is a fair evaluation of your overall persona.

For the record I do know what the Office of Information Awareness is (unless you’re talking about another agency going by the same acronym) it might surprise you to know that despite my criticism of some conspiracies I have quite a wide span of knowledge on the subject. Now I know that you’re just desperate to start talking about symbolism and secret tech they are collecting and keeping form us so they can control our mind and gather data on us or something about the book “Ice station” by Matthew Riley that has a OIA type group in it and this is evidence that the publishing industry has been infiltrated. I want to stop you before you start, this thread is about Americans and their guns not the OIA.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
reply to post by kevinunknown

 

I'm with you 100 percent about the gun culture in America, I wouldn't live there due to this, although I do still think it's a great country in many respects. The problem is that you will not get through to them (our American friends) because they have been born into a gun culture and grew up in one, this means that guns to them is as normal as sliced bread is to us. That is why they do not understand our grim views of the gun culture, it's because they would have to experience life without guns from a young age in order to see how wrong it is.

Gun culture, gun culture, gun culture...

The word "culture" is actually rather strong, and suggests a very different reality than we experience in the US.

America has some history, law and tradition regarding firearms, true enough, but it doesn't really add up to a small sub-culture.

Most "Americans" today still curl up into the fetal position when guns are mentioned, just like their European cousins.

When it comes down to it, the US is actually too big to regard in singularities anyway. In the Northeast, and larger cities, guns are not so popular as in the Western states, or in smaller towns and rural areas. This is just common sense. Certainly a person living in Alaska, they might be foolish not to have a gun. I have a friend who lives up there who would not walk down their driveway unarmed. Bears and wolverines and wolves you know.

But for over 95% of the population, guns play no part at all. Even in the big cities, where you would think people would prefer to be well-armed, most city dwellers prefer pussified versions of self-protection, such as sprays and stun guns.

If not for military service, very few indeed would be able to say they have ever fired a gun! This is the "real" America of today.

Now I say this with no pleasure, because this reality means that America can in all likelihood be easily destroyed from within. I even think that if a concerted effort was launched by the government, the populace could be disarmed much sooner than the few percent "gun minority" imagine.

SO, to clarify, the "gun culture" is really found in two places primarily: The imaginations of foreigners, and the tiny minority gun owners in the US, who still hold onto the fantasy that they are "safe" because of their guns.

The reality is that citizens in the whole civilized world (except for those living in specific elite fortresses, such as Switzerland and Israel) have been brainwashed into voluntarily disarming, and have largely adopted the slave mentality, which says that only police, military and governments should have such things. Other than criminals, just a tiny minority, primarily in the US, remains lightly "armed" at this point, but they are very likely not important anymore, other than for psychological reasons. "Let the slaves think they're free..."

So, no worries Commonwealth subjects! Soon you will have your wish. The whole world will follow you into submission. Then you can celebrate! Only the police and criminals, and armies will have guns! Oh how safe that should make us all feel!

JR