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Prove to me that the bible or any religious book is correct or useful

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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I have seen so many people claiming all kinds of ridiculous things in name of their religion.
Usually they do not have a single proof, and I am becoming seriously annoyed of people these things as if they were true, usually in order to avoid accountability for themselves.

I want to explain why I believe that this religion thing is all nonsense, and if after reading this you still think otherwise, please explain to me why you do, and if you can, prove it to me.

I am not providing links to articles here, the thing is you can easily find them by using Google.

The bible does not quite line up with history. The archeological evidence vastly contradicts the scriptures:
- Noah flood has covered only the middle east at max.
- There is one plague in Egypt that happened and it was a volcano (Nile turns into blood).
- Moses was a pharao (Tutmose 3)
- No 3 hours darkness at Christ's death
- Jesus went to Tibet and England

There have been lies and contradicting writings have been destroyed/hidden (many apocryphe books):
- book of Enoch
- evangelion of Thomas/Mary Magdalene

The bible has immoral teachings:
- Endorses slavery
- Endorses genocide
- Apostacy is death
- Eternal punishment for finite crimes

The history of believers is very wrong:
- Killed all non-believers
- Travelled across the world to kill non-believers
- Abuse their own followers in all possible ways (financially, physically, sexually, psychologically and whatever other options they have)
- Including their own children

God does not talk to me:
- I prayed my ass off, but no reply.
- It shouldn't be that hard for God to answer, right?

Believers are often ignorant:
- By ignoring facts.
- By clinging on to a belief, even when it is clearly proven to be false.
- By becoming offensive and/or violent.

A good example of a violent ignorant believer is the scientology hammer man:
www.youtube.com...

Counter to the absolute values argument:
- Absolute values are conceptual, therefore God is also conceptual.

Counter to the no evolution argument:
- Please inform yourself about evolution.

I try to show respect for the feelings and opinions of other living persons, but please note that I consider neither God nor a religion as a person.

If you can refute all the claims I make here, AND can also prove that God exists, please do not hesitate to reply


edit on 7-12-2010 by whatevername because: added accountability part

edit on 7-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 


OP you are a champion. It is about time a thread like this this was started. Straight out, wheres the proof put up or shut up Game on! Time to sort this out on ATS once & for all! I agree too many people quoting this & that with no proof!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by whatevername
God does not talk to me:
- I prayed my ass off, but no reply.
- It shouldn't be that hard for God to answer, right?





i use to ask the same question, someone who is a big follower said " you have to believe he is there in spirt"
i still have my douts.

in my opionon religion seems to find people who are "lost" and need to believe in something. its very easy to turn to the good book and believe its making you a better person.

i believe my religion is to do good and help other people.. cause in the end materialistic things dont last.

BUTTT hey, if people want to believe whatever they want to believe, they have all the right to do so. why try to change something that is out of your control?



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 


There are lessons in almost every religious text. It seems to me that they mix their view of history with moral teachings in the form of parables and abstract stories. However, these religious texts were written a long time ago and it may not make sense to many people in the present world. However there is just as much knowledge and lessons to be learn as from any modern day book. The key is to not take the religious texts literally.

Just as you have to read Shakespeare between the line you have to read religious texts between the lines.

Religious texts are esoteric and too many people put them in the literal viewpoint.

Every book has a lesson to be taught, learned, and contemplated. What you do with it is the individuals choice.

In the end there is nothing to prove. As with any bit of information, it is what the individual uses it for, learns from it, or discards it. However, in the end, we all breath the same air, live on the same earth, and (i hope) strive for the same love of life.



edit on 7-12-2010 by gator1177 because: additional thought



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 


Seems to me you already made up your mind so my answer to you is NO. LOL.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:52 AM
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Hey Whatevername! you might get a lot of hate from this post, just shrug it off. People are who they are. I admire your search for answers. You have a deep soul, you question, and that is very noble! You are one of the few who question and think for themselves. Take pride in that, develop it, and use it to seek the truth. And know you have a brother in arms.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by gator1177
 




And know you have a brother in arms.


Amen to that lol (No pun intended lol again) No seriously OP there are some on ATS that have your back on this for having the balls to ask!

Whatever organised religion - Game On - Step Up!
edit on 7-12-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by willie9696
reply to post by whatevername
 


Seems to me you already made up your mind so my answer to you is NO. LOL.


I have witnessed many occasions of clearly inhumane activity committed in the name of God/religion.
This included racial violence, child molestation and rape.
It seriously damaged the minds and bodies of many people that I care for.
If you live in a religious environment just open your eyes to see the evilness happen.
If your only answer is "I don't wanna argue" you are clearly lacking in intellectual capacity.

For the record, I am not opposed to anyone saying the bible or other religious book has historical or philosophical value.
I'm just saying that belief in their absolute truth is dangerous and immoral.

Besides, I want to thank all that are showing me support. It is not my intention to hurt anyone, but I feel like this subject needs attention.
edit on 7-12-2010 by whatevername because: Added thanks



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:26 AM
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One thing you have missed is in the very beginning. There was not one god but many of them, so it is not impossible that the bible could be the truth. "Let us make man in our image" from Genesis. The point is not about finding proof but deciding for yourself whether these things were real or they are BS. I always ask myself why would a load of people or gods waste there time writing something to decieve the future generations? But then I think maybe there is a reason behind it aswell. Take a look at the world today for a start.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 


If your problem is with religion then I'm with you, I believe that God hates religion. If you're talking about the atrocities that have been committed in God's name, then once again I'm with you. The true message of the Bible has been lost on religion. Religion controls, I believe that God wants us to enjoy ourselves, to the fullest, but not at the expense of others. I believe there's a reckoning coming, not for the world but for the church itself. Here's an interesting thought, what if everyone is going to heaven? The only ones who aren't are those who have told others they aren't going for whatever reason. "Judge not that you be not judged". What if all the people who have suffered are waiting for us in the next "realm". I am a christian but i don't believe homosexuality is wrong, I do think it's wrong to try and tell others how to live their life. Although this doesn't prove the existence of God, I believe that God hates religion and it doesn't bode well for the self-righteous. Love those who are around you, don't ever violate someones free will. Rape is an abomination, whether it be sexual, financial or psychological. Unfortunately God gets the blame for man's atrocities.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:23 AM
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I would think that the holy books are useful. To utilize their usefulness however, you must do what they say you shouldn't do.
If you ignore the bloodshed, the contradictions, the superstition, the scientific inaccuracies, and read it much as you would one of Aesop's fables - you MIGHT learn something important. Once again, assuming that common sense has escaped you to the point to where admonition that killing and adultery are bad seem like new and astounding proclamations of wisdom. It would seem that some sort of knowledge of this would already be manifest in the minds of most people capable of understanding the concepts by at least 3 years of age. Perhaps not the adultery part, but you know what I mean.

A much more useful purpose in which the entire context can be indirectly utilized would be as a "personal vertical extension utility", commonly known as a booster seat - or aid to reach an object on a shelf slightly higher than the length of ones outstretched arm from a standing position.
The pamphlets, or magazines, when rolled in to a cylindrical shape can be useful in training puppies, children, or swiftly dispatching judgment to various species of flying/biting insects.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 
whatevername,

The Bible proves it'self and God. You know how? By the prophecy. Very few have ever interpreted it right so never see it. It must though interpret it'self as men make a wrong see of it. I know you won't study it enough to find this out as you are too far from being a believer.

This is just to let you know that it does but I can't make you see it as it is Spiritually discerned, by His Spirit. So you will go on being unbelievers and I'll go on being a believer with many others that see that it does.

It is great that we have the freedom to make our own choice and I won't be the one to condemn you and you must not condemn me or others like me either.

We make our own beds, so to speak.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by whatevername
 


OP you are a champion. It is about time a thread like this this was started. Straight out, wheres the proof put up or shut up Game on! Time to sort this out on ATS once & for all! I agree too many people quoting this & that with no proof!


LOL, this type of thread has been around since the beginning of ATS, not to mention that the ops claims have been Tried and tested (unsuccessfully) for thousands of years. The truth is, is that the proof is in the pudding, this case being ones intellect.FACT is ,is that the Bible is here.Its up to you to use your intellect and decide from every angle the truth it pertains.(its all truth) You'll be pleasantly surprised at the conclusion you arrive at. However, I could take what the op has shared, and PROVE without a doubt he errs in his conclusion (which would be fun for me, embarrassing for him) or let him waddle in ignorance.(both are fun I presume).

Ahh maybe next time, Let him enjoy the limelight a little longer.
edit on 7-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by truthiron
 


Read the title of the thread. You have proven nothing! Just in case you forgot here it is a gain



Prove to me that the bible or any religious book is correct or useful





I could take what the op has shared, and PROVE without a doubt he errs in his conclusion (which would be fun for me, embarrassing for him)


I call your bluff on that one. Let's see you "PROVE" that one as you put it. At this stage I call Hoax on your post, however my mind could be changed but highly unlikely!. Lets see the proof. Show me the money!



the truth it pertains.(its all truth)


Prove your truth don't just talk about it & leave the concept of faith out of it!



proof is in the pudding


Means nothing, in fact it is evasive and looks like an attempt to dodge the question!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by oliveoil
 


I might have made mistakes in my posting, and in that case I would like you to address where I am incorrect and I will be happy to correct myself.
I can even point some funny answers to my own question:
-You can enslave people with it.
-You can reposition the letters in a way that it is always correct.
I can also take your message and twist it around in the same way.


not to mention that the ops claims have been Tried and tested (unsuccessfully) for thousands of years

Why are you lying?
It is all quite pointess...



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by whatevername
 



Prove to me that the bible or any religious book is correct or useful

Lets take the word useful.According to Merriam Webster the definition of this word means : capable of being put to use; especially : serviceable for an end or purpose
2: of a valuable or productive kind .

Can I prove to you that individuals , groups, countries, for the last few thousand years has been affected by the "Usefulness" that the bible provides? the answer would be yes. To prove this doesnt require much effort. Take your own advice and Google it.

The second part of your statement would be a testimony of those who find the good book useful. Historical facts and figures are subjective and not the object of importance to the biblical writers.Spiritual truth is what the Bible offers. Many who find this book useful also content to it being correct, as do I





edit on 7-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by whatevername
I have seen so many people claiming all kinds of ridiculous things in name of their religion.
Usually they do not have a single proof, and I am becoming seriously annoyed of people these things as if they were true, usually in order to avoid accountability for themselves.


Welcome to faith.



I want to explain why I believe that this religion thing is all nonsense, and if after reading this you still think otherwise, please explain to me why you do, and if you can, prove it to me.

I am not providing links to articles here, the thing is you can easily find them by using Google.

The bible does not quite line up with history. The archeological evidence vastly contradicts the scriptures:
- Noah flood has covered only the middle east at max.
- There is one plague in Egypt that happened and it was a volcano (Nile turns into blood).
- Moses was a pharao (Tutmose 3)
- No 3 hours darkness at Christ's death
- Jesus went to Tibet and England


Maybe you should read up on the history associated with the Bible. You will be surprised how accurate the Bible's history is. The Archeological evidence is not complete yet because they are still uncovering many missing links within the Bible.

As you have come here with accusations I want you to provide your proof to back up your statements. Why is it that we have to come here with our proof and you get to sit back and watch?



There have been lies and contradicting writings have been destroyed/hidden (many apocryphe books):
- book of Enoch
- evangelion of Thomas/Mary Magdalene


The Apocrypha have not been destroyed nor hidden. They weren't included in the Bible because the people writing them were questionable characters. Who they were written by and when is also a reason as to why they have been left out. They were also left out because the lack of interest, not a conspiracy.



The bible has immoral teachings:
- Endorses slavery
- Endorses genocide
- Apostacy is death
- Eternal punishment for finite crimes


How many people in our modern world choose to follow those teachings? How many are hung up on everything you just said because of the Bible?



The history of believers is very wrong:
- Killed all non-believers
- Travelled across the world to kill non-believers
- Abuse their own followers in all possible ways (financially, physically, sexually, psychologically and whatever other options they have)
- Including their own children


Who are the believers and non-believers? The Earth has about 1,900 years of Christianity, you need to be more specific.

Believers also protected our world today. When the Muslim forces were invading Europe, if they had won, we would be living under Sharia Law today. If it wasn't for the Catholic Francs we would have lost and they would have dominated the world. But you never hear people tell that story because they are always hung up on the evil parts, they forget about the ying-yang.



- I prayed my ass off, but no reply.
- It shouldn't be that hard for God to answer, right?


So this is a grudge match? I prayed my ass off, God didn't reply, now I am all alone, boo-hoo. So what if he doesn't reply to you directly? If you don't think he exists than stop believing, easy as that.



Believers are often ignorant:
- By ignoring facts.
- By clinging on to a belief, even when it is clearly proven to be false.
- By becoming offensive and/or violent.


Everyone is ignorant.



A good example of a violent ignorant believer is the scientology hammer man:
www.youtube.com...

Counter to the absolute values argument:
- Absolute values are conceptual, therefore God is also conceptual.

Counter to the no evolution argument:
- Please inform yourself about evolution.

I try to show respect for the feelings and opinions of other living persons, but please note that I consider neither God nor a religion as a person.

If you can refute all the claims I make here, AND can also prove that God exists, please do not hesitate to reply


edit on 7-12-2010 by whatevername because: added accountability part

edit on 7-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)


You can't prove God exists, you know it. So what is it you are doing here? Are you trying to set all the believers free because you have all the answers? Do you feel you are smarter than every believer because they are ignorant to the facts and because you think every believer is a creationist? What a broad paintbrush you have there.
edit on 7-12-2010 by Equinox99 because: spelling

edit on 7-12-2010 by Equinox99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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Nobody will ever prove the bible is right, or wrong unless someone travels back in time, comes back and gives you a straight forward answer. Its not a question of finding proof. It is a question of are you willing to accept these events have happened in the past(They could of), or that the bible has no influence on past events and is a load of BS(could be, who knows). The answer is each and every persons own. It is based on faith.

If you cannot find the answer you are looking for turn to other scripture. I have and have found interesting things that validate some events in the bible. Once again I need to think well is this book credible, but that is not up to me. I either except it or I dont. You need to prove to yourself whether it is worth believing or not. Asking for proof in this case is pointless. Who is going to have evidence that this book is the truth? Nobody. This is something that science cannot even answer in this point of time.

I have found useful things in scripture which can help people through tough times, so the bible does have great advice whether the events at differet stages happened or not. People look to much into the Noahs Flood, Exodus and miss the entire point of the book. They are two different stages in time which effected the people in that time if they happened of course, and maybe in the future people will be writing the same about something that has happened to them aswell and warning future generations. Maybe it will be us, we do not know. Most likely not though.

So in conclusion, do not bank on finding hard evidence to prove the bible right or wrong because it is not going to happen unless a miracle does occur. It comes down you and you alone to decide what to believe and what not.
I do believe one thing though. Non believers who celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter are hypocrites.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by whatevername

The history of believers is very wrong:
- Killed all non-believers
- Travelled across the world to kill non-believers
- Abuse their own followers in all possible ways (financially, physically, sexually, psychologically and whatever other options they have)
- Including their own children

God does not talk to me:
- I prayed my ass off, but no reply.
- It shouldn't be that hard for God to answer, right?

Believers are often ignorant:
- By ignoring facts.
- By clinging on to a belief, even when it is clearly proven to be false.
- By becoming offensive and/or violent.



I only have a couple of things to say/ask/point out.

1) Who are you saying killed the non-believers? Who abuses their own followers? Who abuses their own children?

2) You say God doesn't talk to you and that you prayed but didn't get an answer. I'm curious as to what you were praying for. I'm also curious as to what answer/outcome you wanted to your prayers. Just because you didn't hear the answer, it doesn't mean it wasn't given. Also, just because the answer may have been "no" and you wanted the answer to be "yes", it doesn't mean an answer wasn't given.

3) Which facts are being ignored? Which beliefs have clearly been proven false? Who has become abusive and/or violent?

If you will kindly answer these questions, it would make it easier for me, in turn, to answer you.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 02:39 AM
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Thanks for the replies.
I will try to answer the questions/make comments to the above posts:


Originally posted by Equinox99
Welcome to faith.

That is exactly what I mean. (avoiding accountability)


Originally posted by Equinox99
Maybe you should read up on the history associated with the Bible. You will be surprised how accurate the Bible's history is. The Archeological evidence is not complete yet because they are still uncovering many missing links within the Bible.

I do not doubt it is highly accurate. But a book of God must have 100% accuracy.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.answersingenesis.org...
www.answersingenesis.org...
note that this is a christian source, but nevertheless they have to admit that the date from Jericho is incorrect, and that the flood only covered the middle east.
www.asis.com...
Jesus found the first church at Glastonbury
en.wikipedia.org...
Wikipedia says no solar eclipse could have happened at the crucifixion.
www.religioustolerance.org...
I am unable to dig up all the information I wished for at this moment, but I will try to find more sources.



The Apocrypha have not been destroyed nor hidden. They weren't included in the Bible because the people writing them were questionable characters. Who they were written by and when is also a reason as to why they have been left out. They were also left out because the lack of interest, not a conspiracy.

www.sacred-texts.com...
Book of Enoch

It is actually the church leaders who created the canon because there were contradictions. They also added pagan traditions. (sorry for no source, will look for it)



How many people in our modern world choose to follow those teachings? How many are hung up on everything you just said because of the Bible?

It is not just the bible and those verses. Besides, these verses were once used to create justice by a morally perfect God.



When the Muslim forces were invading Europe, if they had won, we would be living under Sharia Law today.

Muslims are believers too.
Who did all those pillaging? Mostly our religious leaders...



So this is a grudge match? I prayed my ass off, God didn't reply, now I am all alone, boo-hoo. So what if he doesn't reply to you directly? If you don't think he exists than stop believing, easy as that.

I think it's fair to believe it is not that hard for God to contact me.
Since he didn't, he should have a hell of an excuse.
And I'm not even mentioning those other 5 billion people...




1) Who are you saying killed the non-believers? Who abuses their own followers? Who abuses their own children?

Many influential leaders in various religions have ordered their followers to kill others.
Many of those leaders have abused their followers and their own children.
I do not want to give out names, I think you can use your imagination.
Then think of the many people who blindly believe what they are told and act accordingly (American soldiers, Jihadists, Zionists and many more)
Then we have these catholic priests that can't take their greedy hands off our kids.



2) You say God doesn't talk to you and that you prayed but didn't get an answer. I'm curious as to what you were praying for. I'm also curious as to what answer/outcome you wanted to your prayers. Just because you didn't hear the answer, it doesn't mean it wasn't given. Also, just because the answer may have been "no" and you wanted the answer to be "yes", it doesn't mean an answer wasn't given.

I have prayed a lot in my life. I prayed for many things and God answered my prayers. Later I noticed that I could achieve the same effect when using drugs. I'm not joking here.
I did not often pray for things. If I prayed for anything it was happiness.



3) Which facts are being ignored? Which beliefs have clearly been proven false? Who has become abusive and/or violent?

This was more a general statement of mine, the facts being ignored are many things stated in the bible and some of the things I listed above.
The belief that is proven false is that the bible is 100% correct and the word of God.
The people who are becoming abusive and/or violent are the believers (in this case the christians).
Depending on the situation and their intelligence they will try to use different means of silencing you.
I believe this process is very natural but still wrong.
edit on 8-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)


I am not 100% sure that all the things I stated in my original post are true. The thing about Moses being Tutmose 3 I am not sure about anymore and I will remove it (can't edit original post). However, I think there are enough other things that are debatable.

What reason can you give me to actually believe that it has all truly happened, and that it is all God's message to us?
edit on 8-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)



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