N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Originally posted by notsoperfect

Can consult but ultimately can decide on his own without approval from others.

reply to post by Morgil

 

Who do you mean by "others"?

He has military staffs and many of them. Some of them may reject the decision of the leader. So, most of the time, the decision the leader makes is the same as the consensus of the military staffs.

He really doesn't have a whole lot of choice. And the military staffs are experienced warriors who knows that they are doing.

What is wrong in this process?

You think he is a fool making decisions against his own staffs consensus? This discussion boils down to a boredom.

You have to abandon your faulty presumptions first and be rational.

Still with this? seriously?

What part do you not understand?

He CAN if he so CHOOSES, ignore all advice and launch, regardless of advice from his staff. I am not saying he will or would but he CAN if he wants to. He does not REQUIRE anyone else to agree with him.

I am at a loss as to how to make you understand simple facts and am not prepared to enter into a lecture on the machinations of a dictatorship or state controlled political regime versus a democratic process.

back to the topic at hand.......

reply to post by Morgil


The whole point is so is OBAMA. He is the final decision maker. He doesn't need anyone for the approval to push the button. He can throw the damn thing away and trash it, if and when the recommendation to push the button comes through. Why this is so hard for you to understand?
Yawn....

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by Morgil

 

The whole point is so is OBAMA. He is the final decision maker. He doesn't need anyone for the approval to push the button. He can throw the damn thing away and trash it, if and when the recommendation to push the button comes through. Why this is so hard for you to understand?
Yawn....

Thats where your point falls flat on it's face. He needs a senior cabinet member to validate his codes otherwise, no launch.

Thats where your point falls flat on it's face. He needs a senior cabinet member to validate his codes otherwise, no launch

reply to post by Morgil


You haven't read the whole context. The final decision in case the recommendation for the launch has come through. Does Obama has any choice not to? Do you think Kim Jong Il will have a choice either?

If Obama has no choice to refuse, what difference does it make at all for anything and/or anyone? The leaders are the final focal point of the information and most of the time, when the consensus came, he/she has no choice.

This whole discussion is silly and disgusting.

Originally posted by minkey53
Isn't the Yellow Sea International Waters where anybody can go and do whatever they like?

If so, China can take a run and jump, what goes on there is nothing to do with them!

Anybody know what DEFCON the US is at currently by the way?

How do you think the USA would react if China and Cuba dedecided to hold joint exercises in the Gulf of Mexico?

The Yellow Sea is international waters but it is within what China views as its sphere of influence.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


It is a mistake to think that China only makes junk. We see a lot of junk, because that is what the people who sell imported goods want. The cheapest possible items so they can mark them up several thousand percent.

However China has always had a tradition of fine craftsmanship and this never changed during the communist era. A buddy of mine has a Chinese military manpack radio and it is a very first rate piece of gear.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


If China wants to do something about it lets see what they are going to do about it. If its their sphere of influence then they should defend it like its really theirs, otherwise they should shut the hell up. If they don't want to see an American aircraft carrier then they should do something about NK which led to the cause and effect of having an aircraft carrier changing directions to the Yellow Sea. They are smart enough to know that.

Originally posted by notsoperfect

Thats where your point falls flat on it's face. He needs a senior cabinet member to validate his codes otherwise, no launch

reply to post by Morgil

 

You haven't read the whole context. The final decision in case the recommendation for the launch has come through. Does Obama has any choice not to? Do you think Kim Jong Il will have a choice either?

If Obama has no choice to refuse, what difference does it make at all for anything and/or anyone? The leaders are the final focal point of the information and most of the time, when the consensus came, he/she has no choice.

This whole discussion is silly and disgusting.

you're right about one thing, this "discussion" is silly. I am tired of this, it is like trying to explain quantum theory to a 5 year old. Agree to disagree as I said before. I'm done with this.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

If China wants to do something about it lets see what they are going to do about it. If its their sphere of influence then they should defend it like its really theirs, otherwise they should shut the hell up. If they don't want to see an American aircraft carrier then they should do something about NK which led to the cause and effect of having an aircraft carrier changing directions to the Yellow Sea. They are smart enough to know that.

Diplomacy is not that simple.

For example, if they are really angry they might reinstate the embargo on rare earths. They don't need to react in a way that you expect them to, in order to impact us. In fact, they almost certainly will not react in a way that we expect.

reply to post by deltaboy


Belligerent and provocative.

Originally posted by majesticgent
reply to post by Morgil

 

I wonder how the exercises will "deter" North Korea's aggression, when most signs point to the exercises causing more "aggression" by having them take place. Sounds like double talk to me. They need to just keep it real and say that the exercise isn't a show of force to China, but to North Korea...

They will not deter anything. They are designed to test DPRK and their resolve.

The word here is brinksmanship.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I can think of some things that can hurt China badly without having to fire a shot. Since both of our economies are interconnected it wouldn't matter because both nations would suffer and China don't want to see it going down.

reply to post by Morgil


There you go again. I bet you haven't even taken a single course of Quantum Mechanics in college. Otherwise you would have argued much better. You lost most of your point and do not even know what your point of contention was in the first place.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

I can think of some things that can hurt China badly without having to fire a shot. Since both of our economies are interconnected it wouldn't matter because both nations would suffer and China don't want to see it going down.

The main difference here is that rich banks and corporate interests influence our government more than anything. We will do what it takes to keep those interests afloat, even if it hurts us in other ways.

China is still basically a military dictatorship, and they can pull the plug on their little capitalist side project without much trouble.

Who do you think would be hurt more in the short term if there was a total cessation of trade between the USA and China? After all, all we rerally give them is paper. They give us literally everything we need.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


You believe that they can just shut down their "capitalist side" and think they invulnerable?

Shut down the Chinese exports to U.S. and millions of Chinese are without jobs, which can lead to a revolution. Thats something they don't want at all. We can go to Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. to replace cheap Chinese goods. Don't doubt for one sec. As people in China want more and more luxury goods like cars and jewelry and be like the Joneses. The Chinese govt. may be secretive but they can't hide the fact that they need us more than you think. Where else is the Chinese going to get the cash flow?

reply to post by deltaboy


But u underestimate your enemy in the time of war a person's/peoples resolve tends to harden and with the Chinese they may just all 200 million of them start singinging together if u know what i mean.

They didn't call it the Trail of Tears for Nothing.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

You believe that they can just shut down their "capitalist side" and think they invulnerable?

Shut down the Chinese exports to U.S. and millions of Chinese are without jobs, which can lead to a revolution. Thats something they don't want at all. We can go to Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. to replace cheap Chinese goods. Don't doubt for one sec. As people in China want more and more luxury goods like cars and jewelry and be like the Joneses. The Chinese govt. may be secretive but they can't hide the fact that they need us more than you think. Where else is the Chinese going to get the cash flow?

Yes, they can shut down their capitalist side project if they have to. Unlike America, in a time of emergency they can simply order everybody to the tank factory and pay them a bowl of rice a day. They have virtual colonies in Africa from which they pull their oil.

The "topple them by comfort" theory is completely untested at this point. Sure, there could be some internal difficulties, but China will not tolerate a revolution.

We need them way more than they need us. That's what you get when you let communists infiltrate the Us Government - their bosses profit and move into a more strategic position on the chessboard.

reply to post by deltaboy

Shut down the Chinese exports to U.S. and millions of Chinese are without jobs, which can lead to a revolution. Thats something they don't want at all. We can go to Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. to replace cheap Chinese goods.

That might have been true years ago, but not anymore. The SCO middle-class will soon surpass the combined middle-class of America/Europe. Not to mention the US-EU consumer is BANKRUPT.

Western consumers have been used, now they are going in the trash.

All members of Prime Minister Naoto Kan's Cabinet were on alert Saturday for developments in North Korea prior to a four-day joint military drill to be conducted by South Korea and the United States in the Yellow Sea from Sunday.

Cabinet members have been ordered by Kan to stay in Tokyo until Wednesday and be at their ministry offices within an hour in the event emergency situations develop.

Alert until Wednesday... This is way more serious than any other Korean crisis of the last 20 years +.

There is a solution too this ,, all China are demanding is that u ASK permission before entering their "new" economic Zone.

If america "asked" they might say "ya sure go ahead, ya i know u pay me later, no i dont want anymore of your I.O.U's GO NOW! geez enough already.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Hey Vitch, honestly in your opinion what do you think the chances are that something will occur during the drills?

Either another attack, perhaps a nuke test? I can't see this fading out into nothing. This seems to be the last straw for S. Korea