Military heros are a bunch of sissy girls.

Maybe its this cold / flu I've got that is making me more dense than normal - but I'm not quite getting the point of the OP?

Is it to say this Fisher guy speaks for all the right wing and / or Christians?

I'm sure that there are many right wingers and / or Christians who would disagree with him. I think this is the same nutjob who said a bit ago all Grizzly bears should be killed. The thing about extremist nutjobs. Every political and religious side has them. I'm sure if I went digging I could find a ridiculous statement by some left-wing nutjob, or another right wing nutjob, or a Muslim nutjob, or a Christian nutjob, or a... well you get the idea.

If the point is to say that one extremist nutjob speaks for all of a certain political or religious viewpoint - then of course that is not true. Goodness - we could post threads all day on ATS with quotes from all the nutjobs as representative of how any side is totally wrong.

Hopefully, this thread wasn't just to paint one side with the color of one it's nutjobs - and cast all on that side as thinking the say way - was it?

OR -

Is the intent to ask "Why doesn't a side speak out against its nutjobs?"

Now that is a very valid question. Nutjobs of all sides spout all kind of craziness. But often their "side" doesn't speak out against them. I honestly don't know why that is. Other than the nutjob being "their" nutjob I simply cannot fathom a reason for it. Nutjobbery is nutjobbery regardless of what side it is on.

Given that - I must say..

Its probably no surprise (I've been on ATS long enough for folks to gather) that I usually lean right more often that I lean left.

So, I would be gravely remiss if I didn't say, "Bryan Fisher - you sir - are a nutjob. You do not speak for me. This brave young man is as fine an example of a solider as any I have ever seen, known, or read about. PS - the world be a sad place without grizzly bears."

So remember - one nutjob of a particular leaning doesn't speak for all of that leaning. Why people claim they do is beyond me. Why those on a side won't speak out against their own nutjobs is beyond me as well.

Originally posted by HomerinNC

So Saturn do your research before opening your mouth

edit on 11/22/2010 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

. The official account of the first Medal of Honor given for service in Iraq, to Army Sgt. First Class Paul R. Smith, shows how, among other courageous acts, Smith "braved hostile enemy fire to personally engage the enemy with hand grenades and anti-tank weapons," losing his life in the process."

But such details didn't stop Fischer from asserting that "We have feminized the Medal of Honor" -- a claim that sparked a string of fierce criticisms on the blog post that are continuing.

LEEROY JENKINS!!!!

ok, I may have made a bad by using the word "most"...should be plenty...or simply that agressive actions above and beyond are still being awarded...no need to go all hostile though for a single word.

reply to post by Frogs


Actually, the point is to coax the right into denouncing this guys nonsense...and hopefully show the anti-obama madness for what it is.

Many theories are abound on how this "feminization of the military" mindset is the road being paved to make a strong counter for the right wing in general to oppose dont ask dont tell being removed. See the seed of intolerance and you can avoid eating the fruit that tree bears down the road.

reply to post by SaturnFX


you show one account, i gave you three accounts, i can keep going, the 'above and beyond the call of duty to rescue others' FAR outnumber 'bravery under fire', or as you so nonchalantly put it, 'leeroy jenkins' awards

Why would you get the award for killing?

The soliders job / duty is to kill. The award is for going "above and beyond" the call of duty.

Ie: saving other soliders lives while still doing his job.

Tell this idiot to shut up or put up.

See how long he lasts doing the regular duty, let alone the "above and beyond" portion.

Edit to add:

Why is Obama brought into this? The POTUS doesn't decide who gets the medals, they just present them. I think the decision for medal is made by recommendation to the Defense Secretary, who decides if you get the medal or not.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

you show one account, i gave you three accounts, i can keep going, the 'above and beyond the call of duty to rescue others' FAR outnumber 'bravery under fire', or as you so nonchalantly put it, 'leeroy jenkins' awards

Feel free, but I already said I may have made a bit of a mistake by using the word "most"...so your playing your own game now.

If your wanting to debate for the simple desire to debate something, meet me over in the religious threads.


Sidenote for quick reference understanding:

It features a group of players discussing a detailed battle strategy for the next encounter while one of their party members, Leeroy, is away from his computer. Their plan is ruined when Leeroy returns and, ignorant of the strategy, immediately charges headlong into battle shouting his own name in a stylized battle cry. His companions rush to help, but Leeroy's actions ruin the meticulous plan, and all of the group members are killed.

it is now simply something considered aggressive and unplanned...either resulting in the death of everyone on your team, or a amazing and lucky triumph..a roll of the dice for glory or death without much thinking through...charge right up the center screaming and shooting and hope for the best...ok, just a fyi on what a "leeroy jenkens" is.

Sure there are plenty of cases where the service member used aggressive means to achieve the mission objective and was awarded the Medal of Honor. Take, for example, my former unit's honorary Command Sgt Major, Paul Huff. He received the CMH for offensive actions. I think the ultimate problem with the lunatic in the OP's link, is that, in a historical comparison to other major American conflicts, service members are not receiving the same recognition of their actions. There should have been far more CMHs awarded at this point, but the stigma that these aren't "real" wars has allowed many brave actions to go unnoticed and with a lack of commendation. I'm glad to see that the senior commanders are moving past this stigma.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Ahhh - kind of like my 2nd question then. Still a worthwhile pursuit - denouncing of nutjobbery always is. I wish you the best in it.

Its a concept that pops up every so often here - "Here is a prime example of a nutjob from side X! Who from side X will denounce him?!"

I did it here.

Goodness knows I don't agree with many things Obama does. BUT - I am still quite capable of realizing that Bryan Fisher is a nutjob.

Originally posted by Frogs
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Ahhh - kind of like my 2nd question then. Still a worthwhile pursuit - denouncing of nutjobbery always is. I wish you the best in it.

Its a concept that pops up every so often here - "Here is a prime example of a nutjob from side X! Who from side X will denounce him?!"

I did it here.

Goodness knows I don't agree with many things Obama does. BUT - I am still quite capable of realizing that Bryan Fisher is a nutjob.

Yep yep...
ultimately, both right and left have very valid and good viewpoints...a person needs to take responsibility for his own life and expect nothing..this I agree with. I also agree with the concept that a advanced nation should, if we can, provide the basic healthcare needs of all citizens..let the struggle be for gain, not to simply live. many on the right agree with this also..the argument is, are we an advanced nation, or are we a struggling primitive nation that cannot afford this luxery yet.

on the left, you got people on the fringe that tie themselves to trees, or try to arrest GWB at a speech, etc..on the right, you got this guy and other actions...both extremes should be called out..but its more effective when their own "side" calls them out. sort of ineffective if a rabid liberal denounces this guy...because they also denounce every single thing that is slightly right of center...same when a rabid conservative denounces something on the left...its meaningless because they denounce everything anyhow.

however, when someone from the right denounces something from the right...it has meaning and weight...its important. the country is center...not left, not right...dead center...and its time the people push away the fringe into the obscurity they deserve instead of giving them talk radio shows.

It features a group of players discussing a detailed battle strategy for the next encounter while one of their party members, Leeroy, is away from his computer. Their plan is ruined when Leeroy returns and, ignorant of the strategy, immediately charges headlong into battle shouting his own name in a stylized battle cry. His companions rush to help, but Leeroy's actions ruin the meticulous plan, and all of the group members are killed.

to further elaborate on this, its from the game World of Warcraft, the event can be seen here:


but to demean a bravery under fire action and compare it to a video game is not a good reference and belittles the action that brave soldier did to be killed or wounded under fire, the guy was a moron in the game, and bravery under fire is something completely different, most times the act is to SAVE others from being hurt or killed

reply to post by peck420



Good point, I'm interested to see if anyone answers you.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Not my thoughts...you can thank the new right wing for this latest gem meme.

right wing, left wing, it's all the same

the purpose is to divide the people so they can't stand together against the controversial agenda of the government

there is no such thing as left or right, they are both working together to push corporate interests and squander america as it used to be!

we don't need anymore people coming to ats with this nonsense and furthering the illusion and division of our country so please WAKE UP!

Originally posted by indigothefish
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Not my thoughts...you can thank the new right wing for this latest gem meme.

right wing, left wing, it's all the same

the purpose is to divide the people so they can't stand together against the controversial agenda of the government

there is no such thing as left or right, they are both working together to push corporate interests and squander america as it used to be!

we don't need anymore people coming to ats with this nonsense and furthering the illusion and division of our country so please WAKE UP!

edit on 11/22/2010 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

Typical.

I don't buy into the whole "they are all the same" nonsense actually...I used to, until I started taking notes.
The "its all the same" is absolute bull..its not all the same..that is a way to minimize the complexity of the situation and force a person not to pay attention and care...it is the call to apathy.

You realize most voting americans simply don't vote...guess what their main reason is..."its all the same". the biggest thought..the mainstream thinking...all the same...it is the biggest lie.

If I think its all the same, I dont care then...why bother looking at the issues if the reaction is all the same. THIS thinking is how the true elites maintain control...make the public disenfranchised and not vote or care anymore...then they can do what they want, because the opposition is "all the same".

I call bull$$##. The true puppets have been saying since probably the dawning of the republic that its all the same...its time we toss off that idea and research...to truely engage in the process and see whats going on...to ignore people whom say we need to stop caring because its all the same..

Apathy is a disgusting human trait.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Being one man's opinion does not make it the new "conservative view." I find myself growing more conservative in my aproach to life as I age. However, I disagree with his statement. I believe courage in the face of fire can be just as "honorable" if it is to save life. The idea that killing the enemy is more heroic than saving your fellow soldier is idiotic. I guess medics are feminine because they set aside their rifle to save lives.

Idiocy seems to be the new replacement for common sense.

Saturn you know better than to think one person represents everybody of a similar nature.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The Medal of Honor is a way for the State to promote itself.

Medals are not created to award bravery, they are created to laud the State's accomplishments.

The same goes for monuments.

There is no difference between the purpose of a medal and the purpose of Mt. Rushmore.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

Saturn you know better than to think one person represents everybody of a similar nature.

I do, just want to make sure what I wrote before comes true...outrage from the opposite side is common...however, outrage from the side the person says he is standing for holds weight.

The guy is now in a defensive spin but his words and intent are pretty transparent.

Oh the AFA again. Those people are the plague that is destroying our culture. Last time I heard from them they wanted to stone to death a killer whale that killed its trainer back in April I think.

They called his actions "feminized" because he didn't kill troops? What kind of Christians are these people?




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

You know, I really like the modern media. I could go outside and start publicly masturbating while protesting gay rights - it's national news before sun-down, and all the rage on forums the world over where the right wing suddenly becomes a bunch of public masturbaters lead by my excellent demonstration efforts.

It's like that guy threatening to burn the Koran - overnight everyone on the right was supposed to be under this guy's leadership because a media producer decided it would be an amusing air-time filler segment.

Most of the Medal of Honor recipients have been Corpsman and other medical professions picking up arms and defending their downed comrades or pulling them back behind cover after facing a wall of lead.

A committee of military officers (and senior enlisted, I believe) sit in on, literally, trials as jurors to the recommendations for medal of honor recipients. While it is presented by the President - it is not his decision.

With medals - it comes down to luck, partially, and whether or not the people you know have the knowledge of how to submit the paperwork. I've seen admin personnel receive achievement medals for making sure the paper (read: our service records) got shredded properly. I am sure there are people who should have received the medal of honor who never did. I am sure there are people who have received the medal of honor due to an excessive amount of padding.

However, we're looking at a medal that is usually awarded posthumously in the overwhelming majority of cases. So what if Rambo Jr. wasn't the best at everything he did, or the pinnacle of military lifestyle - more than a few people found him/her deserving of the Medal of Honor. And at the very least - it can give some level of closure and recognition to the families of those who died in combat.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

The Medal of Honor is a way for the State to promote itself.

Medals are not created to award bravery, they are created to laud the State's accomplishments.

The same goes for monuments.

There is no difference between the purpose of a medal and the purpose of Mt. Rushmore.

edit on 23-11-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

You tell that to the family of the soldier that was killed for that medal, lets see how they take it
Apparently you NEVER served with your attitude

idk if its true or not but someone once said to me a hero is a coward who is too scared to run......